WDiW to spend 15 million dollars on Disney Transportation

[All Aboard]

Forgive my ignorance, but does all light rail require those awful overhead wires? A combination of monorail - light rail - and some kind of people mover would be very cool, indeed.

 

[DisneyKidds]

There's also a reason most major cities are spending their cash on Lightrail right now.

Depends on the city......but yes, light rail is a great option. I would think light rail could be a fit for WDW. WDW has too many destinations to eliminate busses all together, but a few well place main light rail lines could do wonders.

 

[YoHo]

Actually, light rail would be a terrible option. because of the watertable in the area, it would likely cost as much per mile of track as the monorail. I know we've had huge threads trying to suggest otherwise, but I don't buy it. The concrete supports would be the same.

As for the "ugly horrible wiring," Light rail is intended for street running. you can't have energized tracks where people are going to regularly walk over them. So, if the system is going to be electrified, then it has to be overhead wire.
Whether that is ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I find that it adds charm to cities. I'm thinking San fran and Seattle where it adds to the feel of those cities. Both also have electric busses that run off overhead powerlines.

They do make diesel powered light rail which is primarily intended to make use of existing right of way without the major expense and significantly higher infrasturcture costs of full on passenger rail. They're also working on hybrid systems.

The main point is that Light rail really doesn't offer anything more then monorails except in the mass production aspect which of course in some way diminishes their magic.

 

[wahoomedic]

hi all,
actually some of the busses already have gps systems.there doing this as a sort of piolt program.the ones that have gps are the ones that when you board have the large black/grey looking cell phone thing next to the driver,plugged into the dash board.

This is not entirely true. All buses are equipped with Nextel cellphones, these phones are capable of GPS. However, there is no working GPS systems on any buses at this time. The GPS system will not be in place until the new dispatch center is in operation and that is still four to six months away.

 

[paulh]

bring back the meat wagon they used to use for the allstars i say
Paul

 

[raidermatt]

The cost is so high to build the monorail that it would take years to just pay off, if it would ever be payed off.

Of course, the same was said 50 years ago at DL, and 40 years ago at WDW. But Disney built it anyway because they believed it was important to the overall experience, and therefore WOULD be "payed off", even if it wasn't easily shown with grids chiseled in stone (they didn't have Excel or Powerpoint yet).

Now, I'm not saying monorail expansion is the answer to all of WDW's transporation issues. I personally think it should be a part of it, but I'm not married to the idea. I am however, married to the idea that a better bus system is NOT the complete answer.

As a vacation resort, WDW does face some of the same issues as major cities, but they also have very different issues to consider, like show and vacation experience. "Cost efficiency", at least as its being thrown around in this discussion, is not the end of the story. Or at least it shouldn't be.

 

[SoCalKDG]

Now, I'm not saying monorail expansion is the answer to all of WDW's transporation issues. I personally think it should be a part of it, but I'm not married to the idea. I am however, married to the idea that a better bus system is NOT the complete answer.

As a vacation resort, WDW does face some of the same issues as major cities, but they also have very different issues to consider, like show and vacation experience. "Cost efficiency", at least as its being thrown around in this discussion, is not the end of the story. Or at least it shouldn't be.

I have to agree here. Its one of the reasons we like to stay at BWV's, the chance to take a boat to two different parks. My kids enjoy a boat trip much more than a bus trip. The same goes for the monorail. While I'll most likely take the bus to the MK from BWV, the temptation is there to go into Epcot, walk through the park and take the monorail. While it will take much longer to make the trip, its still fun.

Improving the Buses is a good first step. Making the trip more enjoyable, cutting the waiting time, all good steps. If Disney is going to try and get people to WDW without their cars, then transporation has to be a high priority. Expanding the monorail as the second step would go a long way towards meeting this goal.

 

[freakylick]

With GPS all the busses will know where every bus is. There will also be updates to the bus stops which will let the busses know when people are present.

Now if they could only update the bus stops so that passengers know where the busses are....that would be a worthwhile upgrade

 

[ztbz]

There are plans to upgrade most of the Bus Stops with video camera system so that the dispatchers will know if someone is in a load zone at a hotel and possible a display board which would count down to the next bus departure time, although I not sure if the latter would work or not.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

A count down to the next departure would be outstanding...at least in the park bus corrals. Instead of waiting endlessly (or 30 minutes) for the bus you just missed you could go and buy a soda or an ice cream...or more likely go sit on the grass or a bench.

In fact if you could somehow hook into the pal mickey's that would be even better. Great marketing ploy for the little buggers.

 

[peter11435]

This is absolutly not true. It's cheaper to build. It's not cheaper to maintain and it's not more efficent at moving people.

While that is true in most locations. The buses are far more efficient for Disney's crowd flow than buses will ever be.

 

[Another Voice]

Actually, a fixed rail system is the most efficient method for a place like WDW – high concentrations of people moving between fixed places on known schedule. Busses are great for low density routes with even demand throughout the day. Busses are extremely inefficient with dealing with issues like park closing – the only way to expand capacity is to add a bunch of busses. The rest of the time all those extra busses sit in the back and rust. A train can haul around its "extra" capacity all day for a minimal cost, and it's always available when needed.

The problem comes in the initial cost. Unlike busses or even light rail – no one makes monorail systems on an assembly line. Each one is a custom job and that really drives up the cost. If the corporate will is there, transportation can still happen: Tokyo Disneyland opened up brand new monorail system and Hong Kong Disneyland opened an special line to connect to the Hong Kong subway system (the trains have Mickey shaped windows and Disney art inside).

At WDW, however, the current business model is going prohibit any major changes. Any new project has to make money all by itself – considerations of improvements to the overall resort are ignored. They had considered charging for monorail transportation, as Tokyo does, but Disney simply wants to spend the money on other things, like bailing out ABC Family.

There have also been long standing whispers that WDW's bus system will be outsourced to Mears – just like the airport and cruise line busses are. If, or when, this will happen remains speculation at this point.

 

[ryley26]

I'd love a monorail system thru out the world. I don't think we will ever see it like most businesses they done the cost analysis and it most not make the cut. We could argue forever about this but unless the cost is recooped after the years they want it won't get built. The cost of fuel at its currrent price hasn't moved them nothing will.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Mr. Voice, how come a People Mover type system was never perfected for real transportation uses? Also, what about moving sidewalks...You know through themed environments and all. These things can get a lot of people a long way with less than half the walking quite quickly.

 

[DrTomorrow]

Yeah, Buses are so magical

Well, to some of us - who rarely or never ride a bus - taking a Disney Transportation Bus can truly be magical. Do I wish we could get to every destination via monorail and/or boat? Yep. But a Disney bus with a friendly driver - and now maybe some tunes - can be special. Guess it's all in what you bring to the table....

 

[peter11435]

Actually, a fixed rail system is the most efficient method for a place like WDW – high concentrations of people moving between fixed places on known schedule. Busses are great for low density routes with even demand throughout the day. Busses are extremely inefficient with dealing with issues like park closing – the only way to expand capacity is to add a bunch of busses. The rest of the time all those extra busses sit in the back and rust. A train can haul around its "extra" capacity all day for a minimal cost, and it's always available when needed.

The problem comes in the initial cost. Unlike busses or even light rail – no one makes monorail systems on an assembly line. Each one is a custom job and that really drives up the cost. If the corporate will is there, transportation can still happen: Tokyo Disneyland opened up brand new monorail system and Hong Kong Disneyland opened an special line to connect to the Hong Kong subway system (the trains have Mickey shaped windows and Disney art inside).

At WDW, however, the current business model is going prohibit any major changes. Any new project has to make money all by itself – considerations of improvements to the overall resort are ignored. They had considered charging for monorail transportation, as Tokyo does, but Disney simply wants to spend the money on other things, like bailing out ABC Family.

There have also been long standing whispers that WDW's bus system will be outsourced to Mears – just like the airport and cruise line busses are. If, or when, this will happen remains speculation at this point.

I find your post laughable at best. You clearly have no experience in transportation. You seem to want to make everyone think you are an expert on everything. The fact is all you seem to be an expert at is talking a lot, and pretending to know what you are talking about.

 

[DIGGER68]

I find your post laughable at best. You clearly have no experience in transportation. You seem to want to make everyone think you are an expert on everything. The fact is all you seem to be an expert at is talking a lot, and pretending to know what you are talking about.

I do believe that AV most likely has a better handle on how the Disney company see's these kind of transportation issues, right or wrong take aside on which method is best. I base this on past statements AV has made and the realities that occurred as time passed. It appears the current Disney company mode of operation is squeeze the profit with as little actual effort and cash outlay as possible. To me the bus upgrade fits that line of thinking. Is it the best in the long run or what make logical sense? No, but the accountanteers will be happy and so will "what have you done for me lately" Wall Street types. That is the group current management is playing to. They are not building long term value but only exploiting that value which in already in place. That’s my take.

 

[manning]

I find your post laughable at best. You clearly have no experience in transportation. You seem to want to make everyone think you are an expert on everything. The fact is all you seem to be an expert at is talking a lot, and pretending to know what you are talking about.

Having been in the transportation sector for over 30 years and living in the Chicago area where it is promoted that people get off the roads and take the train to reduce traffic I would have to say Voice knows what he is talking about.

Rail is designed to move large volume economically. The largest cost is building the road bed.

Consider one bus as a unit and one monorail as a unit. Which unit holds more people? And without having to intermingle with traffic which do you think would travel faster?

If Disney doesn't want to build more monorail lines and wants to move more people faster they will have to consider dedicated bus lanes/roads.

The only problem is that any monorail expansion would cost at least 60 times that amount.

Help us out here. where do get this figure.

 

[peter11435]

Help us out here. where do get this figure.

Check up on the cost of any Disney like monorail system in the world. You will see that monorail expansion is very expensive. The Las Vegas system cost about 87 per mile. While there were many factors there that Disney would not have.. They could not avoid at least 50 million per mile. If you have been in the transportation industry for 30 years I would think you should know that already.

 

[crusader]

Manning,

Name one rail system that isn't bankrupt in the U.S. and doesn't require billions of federal and state tax dollars to bailout year after year? A system which requires us to drive to a station, park, pay, wait on platforms, sit with each other, walk, hail a cab and risk relying on transportation which misappropriates every dime of funding for new rail to subsidize the obscene cost of daily operation and management.

Not to mention the environmental hazards seeping to the tune of untold billions continually spent on montoring, feasibility and cleanup at every single U.S. rail yard.

No, rail doesn't transport any of us economically.

It's great to fantasize about transportation as an attraction. I'm sure Walt incorporated joint ventures and tax subsidies to remedy his vision for commuting within the confines of his testing facility. Unfortunately, that's not what the company is providing today, and therefore, no one here can reasonably argue what alternatives are truly viable in terms of Disney's transportation cost effectiveness.