Warning about Black Out dates on new AP

[Brian Noble]

We sometimes forget that DVC needs to negotiate Member discounts with the other Disney divisions.

Some can be negotiated; others can be paid for out of DVD's Marketing budget. For example, I think it is very likely that the Moonlight Madness events are paid for by the timeshare arm out of timeshare sales revenue.

who negotiates for Florida residents?

Think of Florida residents as the "shock absorber" to counter-balance swings in guests who travel from farther away. When overall Park demand is up, the discounts/deals for residents go down, and vice versa.

 

[RobDoc]

What penalties and incarceration has DVC/DVC suffered as a result of your suggested illegal actions?

I have read the thread(s) on point chart reallocations and found no mention of any lawsuit filed against DVC/DVD regarding illegal activity.

What court has ruled on these "illegal attempts"?

 

[OhDannyBoy]

Who in their right mind would buy an annual pass that blacks out EVERY weekend? Why is that even an option? I guess someone would buy it. I just can't imagine who.

 

[Sandisw]

Who in their right mind would buy an annual pass that blacks out EVERY weekend? Why is that even an option? I guess someone would buy it. I just can't imagine who.

Honestly, I would! My plan now is to visit 3 to 4 nights monthly in the winter and will be staying during the week. That pass would be great for me.

But, I am not a FL resident so I can't get it, but for the cost, it sure would have been nice.

 

[Brian Noble]

Who in their right mind would buy an annual pass that blacks out EVERY weekend?

A retiree might. There might be a few of those in Florida, aka "God's waiting room."

 

[OhDannyBoy]

A retiree might. There might be a few of those in Florida, aka "God's waiting room."

Good point. I sure do remember every year going to Disney and seeing droves of retired old people.

 

[RobDoc]

Some can be negotiated; others can be paid for out of DVD's Marketing budget. For example, I think it is very likely that the Moonlight Madness events are paid for by the timeshare arm out of timeshare sales revenue.

When DVC began in 1991, one of the benefits of ownership was the Park Admission Program which ran from inception through 12/31/1999. It allowed DVC Members park admission for up to 1/2 the allowed occupancy of the villa reserved using DVC Points (at OKW and even VB).

So, park admission was included for 2 guests staying in Studios and 1BR villas, 4 guests for those in a 2BR and 6 guests for those staying in a GV. This offer was not extended to HH or BWV (and later DVC Resorts) owners but early OKW and VB owners did receive the benefit.

DVD negotiated that benefit with Theme Parks and it cost DVD $35 each day one of those passes was used at a Theme Park (MK, EPCOT, and Disney - MGM STUDIOS). AK was NOT included in the program even though it opened prior to the expiration. In 1995, adult admission to MK, EPCOT and Disney-MGM Studios was $38 for adult admission.

You are correct that programs like Moonlight Madness are covered by DVD (they do not come out of Member annual fees).

 

[OhDannyBoy]

Honestly, I would! My plan now is to visit 3 to 4 nights monthly in the winter and will be staying during the week. That pass would be great for me.

But, I am not a FL resident so I can't get it, but for the cost, it sure would have been nice.

This pass would make more sense to me for NON Florida residents as they tend to stay longer.

I can only speak for myself and the people I know, but as Florida residents, the whole point of an AP is to make a weekend of Disney. It's a 3 hour drive for me. That's how we used to Disney before they started to hate their locals. We'd stop in to EPCOT just for lunch when visiting friends in Orlando. My wife had AP all through college as she went to UCF.

I mean like I said, someone will buy it, just seems the market for it would be tiny and kind of pointless.

 

[zavandor]

... and we KNOW that how?

I would not put it in the "know" column, but at least in the "highly likely": When they accepted resorts' interpretation of the contract and accepted that DVC members have to pay for groceries delivery.

What penalties and incarceration has DVC/DVC suffered as a result of your suggested illegal actions?

I have read the thread(s) on point chart reallocations and found no mention of any lawsuit filed against DVC/DVD regarding illegal activity.

What court has ruled on these "illegal attempts"?

3 instances of questionable behavior:
2 reallocations, the 2020 and the 2022 point charts. Both times a few owners complained and they rolled them back. The backlash for those is nothing compared to Genie+ and yet they rolled them back. I struggle to believe it's just for their good heart. There is now law court decision because they prevented it accepting our complaint.

1 is actually proved it was illegal: the fact they kept tax reimbursement from resale owners and it was rolled back this year as well.

 

[RobDoc]

I don't disagree that there have been irregularities with recent point reallocations and other concerns, but disagree with the characterization that this was done "to screw over" Members and that we "all know" something not in evidence.

 

[New Mouse]

So, which division then pays for the FL resident discounts?

Ticketing. Its in their marketing budget.

 

[New Mouse]

I don't disagree that there have been irregularities with recent point reallocations and other concerns, but disagree with the characterization that this was done "to screw over" Members and that we "all know" something not in evidence.

This particular instance was not, it is a testament to the bigger picture though that no one is actually looking out for us.

 

[Narcoossee11]

This pass would make more sense to me for NON Florida residents as they tend to stay longer.

I can only speak for myself and the people I know, but as Florida residents, the whole point of an AP is to make a weekend of Disney. It's a 3 hour drive for me. That's how we used to Disney before they started to hate their locals. We'd stop in to EPCOT just for lunch when visiting friends in Orlando. My wife had AP all through college as she went to UCF.

I mean like I said, someone will buy it, just seems the market for it would be tiny and kind of pointless.

As a Floridian and as a Orlandian ... The last place you to be is a park when it is busy.

 

[KPeterso]

Who in their right mind would buy an annual pass that blacks out EVERY weekend? Why is that even an option? I guess someone would buy it. I just can't imagine who.

My friend who is a snowbird buys them for herself and her husband. They are retired and come over on weekdays to enjoy the parks several times each winter and then meet me for a few days in March each year (always on weekdays, I am on my own on the weekends) to use their DVC points. Works well for them and since they own a place in FL for the winters, they can get the resident deals.

 

[Sandisw]

Ticketing. Its in their marketing budget.

So, then maybe ticketing, in their marketing budget, allow for the DVC as well? I think my point was more that DPEP, and not DVD sets the terms to which they want to allow DVC owners to have AP options that others, besides FL residents, have.

Its an agreement between the two and DPEP is in the driver's seat. Its why we see no discount on the Incredi-pass for either DVC or FL.

If DVD had a big say, then for sales purposes, they would have insisted that the current programs of giving a discount on the top tier pass continued? IMO, that didn't happen because DPEP didn't want to offer it any longer to FL residents and therefore, didn't want DVD to offer it to DVC owners as well.

 

[New Mouse]

So, then maybe ticketing, in their marketing budget, allow for the DVC as well? I think my point was more that DPEP, and not DVD sets the terms to which they want to allow DVC owners to have AP options that others, besides FL residents, have.

Its an agreement between the two and DPEP is in the driver's seat. Its why we see no discount on the Incredi-pass for either DVC or FL.

If DVD had a big say, then for sales purposes, they would have insisted that the current programs of giving a discount on the top tier pass continued? IMO, that didn't happen because DPEP didn't want to offer it any longer to FL residents and therefore, didn't want DVD to offer it to DVC owners as well.

They dont....dvd/dvc agrees to pay x to parks/ticketing for x perk(s). The epcot lounge isnt a freebie.

 

[Sandisw]

They dont....dvd/dvc agrees to pay x to parks/ticketing for x perk(s). The epcot lounge isnt a freebie.

I wasn’t talking about the lounge which I know is different. All I am saying DPEP controls things when it comes to tickets.

 

[Cabius]

DVD negotiated that benefit with Theme Parks and it cost DVD $35 each day one of those passes was used at a Theme Park (MK, EPCOT, and Disney - MGM STUDIOS). AK was NOT included in the program even though it opened prior to the expiration. In 1995, adult admission to MK, EPCOT and Disney-MGM Studios was $38 for adult admission.

I expect membership extras to continue to decline in value as the number of members grows, making them less cost-effective for DVD.

There isn't really value to DVD in giving perks to existing owners -- they already have our money -- but marketing the generous perks drives new sales. With a high ratio of new sales to existing owners, the ROI was really high. It's worth "wasting" money on 1mm points in circulation if it helps sell 1mm new points.

But with 60mm points in circulation, per-member perks become way more expensive and the ROI takes a nosedive. For every million points those perks help you sell, you have to pay for 60 million existing members to get the benefit too.

Maybe as folks sell out of their contracts, the number of Blue Card-eligible points will shrink over time and this will become more cost effective. Or maybe things will change as existing resorts expire and are re-sold.

But the basic math suggests DVD won't be as generous in the 2020s and beyond as they were in the 1990s. Sadly.

 

[sheilafri]

We purchased FL Resident Weekday Select passes under the recovery program but have not yet activated the passes. When I look on MDE it shows me holding that pass and the block out dates from it (I can go on MLK Jr Holiday and Presidents Day). Don’t know what will happen when I activate it. Think it will switch over? I actually have a park reserved on MLK Day.

 

[Sandisw]

We purchased FL Resident Weekday Select passes under the recovery program but have not yet activated the passes. When I look on MDE it shows me holding that pass and the block out dates from it (I can go on MLK Jr Holiday and Presidents Day). Don’t know what will happen when I activate it. Think it will switch over? I actually have a park reserved on MLK Day.

People have reported that your pass will be activated as one of the new passes, with the new rules for blockout days.

We won’t know for sure until after September 8th, when we get reports of what actually happens. IMO, I think they should keep all old benefits and days of use or offer people a refund.