Walking “fix” implemented? Problems booking a high value Villa.

[mistysue]

I mean where in the contract does it give DVC the authority to question me about who my guests are. That is a serious invasion of my privacy and theirs. Not to mention that they don't need to because they know whose name is on the reservation and what it matches the owner or not....

I get people want all sorts of things to be put in place, but they have to be supported by the terms of the contract and saying "its commerical" so its a violation does not cut it. Yes, DVC can put in place things to make it harder for any owner, including a business to secure reservations faster.

But, you seem to be sticking with the notion that "commericial" means what you want it to mean and not what it means in relation to the DVC contract, and what rights we do and do not have.

Nobody said anything about questioning you at all.

 

[Sandisw]

Nobody said anything about questioning you at all.

If my guests will be asked if they know me personally, it is an invasion of my privacy as to the nature of my relationships…which is a way of questioning me…because I would have to alert the renter or guest ahead of time it would be asked.

So, I contend it is Disney questioning me, through others. Silly to even bring that up because not only is there nothing in the contract that gives DVD the right to ask that, TWDC would never invade a guests privacy like that…

 

[mistysue]

If my guests will be asked if they know me personally, it is an invasion of my privacy as to the nature of my relationships…which is a way of questioning me…because I would have to alert the renter or guest ahead of time it would be asked.

So, I contend it is Disney questioning me, through others. Silly to even bring that up because not only is there nothing in the contract that gives DVD the right to ask that, TWDC would never invade a guests privacy like that…

You are adding words to this. Nobody is asking the nature of your relationships. They are asking if people are renting the points. That is a valid question that has nothing to do with privacy. You agreed to a membership for personal use. It is not unreasonable to ask if you are complying with your own contract.

 

[Sandisw]

You are adding words to this. Nobody is asking the nature of your relationships. They are asking if people are renting the points. That is a valid question that has nothing to do with privacy. You agreed to a membership for personal use. It is not unreasonable to ask if you are complying with your own contract.

And you do realize that personal use includes renters, right? Your post said that they would ask the guest if they know you personally and that a renter would be less apt to lie..which I don’t understand why they would need to lie unless the assumption was being a renter was against the rules.

That was what I was responding to, not that DVC or the hotel can’t ask the person if they are the owner or a guest/renter of the owner,,,that question is fair game,

If they are a renter, they say renter…nothing wrong with that…but not sure why DVC needs to because they have information in terms of which reservations are in the owners name and which are not.

 

[mistysue]

And you do realize that personal use includes renters, right? Your post said that they would ask the guest if they know you personally and that a renter would be less apt to lie..which I don’t understand why they would need to lie unless the assumption was being a renter was against the rules.

That was what I was responding to, not that DVC or the hotel can’t ask the person if they are the owner or a guest/renter of the owner,,,that question is fair game,

If they are a renter, they say renter…nothing wrong with that…but not sure why DVC needs to because they have information in terms of which reservations are in the owners name and which are not.

It clears up whether the rooms are being rented, which establishes a pattern of rental activity.

 

[Sandisw]

It clears up whether the rooms are being rented, which establishes a pattern of rental activity.

They don’t need that…they have the reservations already….if DVC sees X number of reservations in the names of others and decides it’s a pattern, then they contact the owner and discuss their concerns.

At that point, its between DVC and the owner to determine if the contact has been violated…that’s why I keep saying they don’t need to jump through hopes with the rules…

But, you are correct that asking the guest at check in if they are an owner or a guest/renter would not be a violation of the contract…or an issue of privacy…as long as that is all you meant.

 

[robinb]

Frankly, I'm still not convinced there are a bunch of bots/scripts booking things at 8:00 am. Does someone have absolute proof there are bots, or is it all conjecture?

 

[kilik64]

Frankly, I'm still not convinced there are a bunch of bots/scripts booking things at 8:00 am. Does someone have absolute proof there are bots, or is it all conjecture?

Conjecture

(They will state they do, just look at all the rental sites!)

 

[Chuck S]

It clears up whether the rooms are being rented, which establishes a pattern of rental activity.

But you are assuming that the owner they rented from will not have told them that if they don't say they are friends that the reservation would be cancelled. How would a renter know any differently? There is no way for DVC to verify either way...so a pretty impractical approach. I mean, if you rented points and were warned by the owner you rented from that DVC may cancel their reservation, what would you expect the renter to do...I mean. no one has ever lied to a front desk hotel person or a Disney Cast Member before, right?

You can see it all the time on YouTube and TikTok

 

[Minnie84]

Frankly, I'm still not convinced there are a bunch of bots/scripts booking things at 8:00 am. Does someone have absolute proof there are bots, or is it all conjecture?

Try and get a BWV standard room at 11 months and 8am and see if you think there are bots

 

[mistysue]

Frankly, I'm still not convinced there are a bunch of bots/scripts booking things at 8:00 am. Does someone have absolute proof there are bots, or is it all conjecture?

While it is conjecture, it comes from people stalking the site, trying to book rooms that are being booked faster than a human could get through the prompts consistently. Not once, not only a dozen times, but day after day.
Then there is the fact that these same difficult to get reservations show up for rent day after day on the same sites.

 

[mistysue]

But you are assuming that the owner they rented from will not have told them that if they don't say they are friends that the reservation would be cancelled. How would a renter know any differently? There is no way for DVC to verify either way...so a pretty impractical approach. I mean, if you rented points and were warned by the owner you rented from that DVC may cancel their reservation, what would you expect the renter to do...I mean. no one has ever lied to a front desk hotel person or a Disney Cast Member before, right?

You can see it all the time on YouTube and TikTok

You realize that the front desk can let people know this is for tracking purposes and does not affect their reservation in any way, right? Even with occasional liars, it's a better system than "never ask anyone anything then shrug because nobody knows"

They don’t need that…they have the reservations already….if DVC sees X number of reservations in the names of others and decides it’s a pattern, then they contact the owner and discuss their concerns.

At that point, its between DVC and the owner to determine if the contact has been violated…that’s why I keep saying they don’t need to jump through hopes with the rules…

But, you are correct that asking the guest at check in if they are an owner or a guest/renter would not be a violation of the contract…or an issue of privacy…as long as that is all you meant.

But there is a difference between reservations not in the member's name because they are rented and reservations not in the member's name because their friends/family are using the room.
Before we were saying we can't have more staff auditing a higher number of transactions, this data set would lower the number of contacts that had to be made while giving more accuracy in doing so.

 

[Sandisw]

Try and get a BWV standard room at 11 months and 8am and see if you think there are bots

Nah, bots or no bots, it’s the creation of high point charts at RiV, VGF, and PVB, thst has made BWV owners know what kind Of gem they really have!,,,lol

 

[Tatebeck]

Weirdly enough while looking through the rules for the booking rules I found this in the home resort rules and regulations file.


I had 2 questions about this.
Does this mean that if you let someone stay for free they may use your direct benefits somehow?

And the last part seems to say that we are already supposed to let member services know when we book something as a rental? I have never heard of that requirement before???

 

[Chuck S]

Weirdly enough while looking through the rules for the booking rules I found this in the home resort rules and regulations file.

View attachment 869112
I had 2 questions about this.
Does this mean that if you let someone stay for free they may use your direct benefits somehow?

And the last part seems to say that we are already supposed to let member services know when we book something as a rental? I have never heard of that requirement before???

In the early days of the program, there were certain benefits granted to members staying in a DVC room at their home resort. The free park admission program was one of them, and the ability to purchase a Food 'N' Fun card. I would assume that is the type of benefits and privileges that could be extended to guests of an owner, and the defunct pool hopping privilege There is nothing currently offered exclusively to members staying on points at their home resort(s).

The language to inform Member Services if the person in the room is a renter has always been a part of the contract, yet owners were never told how exactly they wanted us to do that. One could assume when all reservations were done via the phone, they could mention it, but I don't remember ever being asked. But now that it is online, the only thing they ask with a check-box is whether the prime is a DVC Member...not if it is the person that owns the points, and not if they are renters.

 

[muppets3d]

Frankly, I'm still not convinced there are a bunch of bots/scripts booking things at 8:00 am. Does someone have absolute proof there are bots, or is it all conjecture?

Nobody is going to admit they use bots obviously, just like none of the rental brokers admit to owning thousands of points purely to rent them out.

But the fact that rooms are gone in a split second after 8:00 AM, faster than any human can respond, and the amount of money involved in renting out these reservations, confirms it to me.

 

[Sandisw]

You realize that the front desk can let people know this is for tracking purposes and does not affect their reservation in any way, right? Even with occasional liars, it's a better system than "never ask anyone anything then shrug because nobody knows"

But there is a difference between reservations not in the member's name because they are rented and reservations not in the member's name because their friends/family are using the room.
Before we were saying we can't have more staff auditing a higher number of transactions, this data set would lower the number of contacts that had to be made while giving more accuracy in doing so.

That’s the point…if the system is flagging memberships with a certain number of reservations, and they see that a certain amount are in the names of others, then DVC contacts the owner and just like in 2007, they ask the owner to discuss who they are….there is no need to get the guest or renter Involved because they are not a party to the DVC contract.

The issue is that some want DVC to crack down hard on renting, even given an owners rights to rent in an attempt to catch others, especially if those others are brokers, who they feel are violating the contract.

I do understand that some feel that the crackdown is going to open up more rooms, but to be honest, if those owners sell, they will be bought by others, so points will still be being used.

Comes back to how important is it to have the ability to rent within reasonable guidelines vs, having them so strict that owners feel DVC is no longer the product they want in hopes that booking trends will changr?

The answer to that is going to be different for every owner and what DVC will have to figure out is which one is to the benefit to the memberships as whole.

 

[davidhr]

Nobody is going to admit they use bots obviously, just like none of the rental brokers admit to owning thousands of points purely to rent them out.

But the fact that rooms are gone in a split second after 8:00 AM, faster than any human can respond, and the amount of money involved in renting out these reservations, confirms it to me.

To be fair, if you’re there trying to book at 8:00AM without a bot, what makes you believe there aren’t dozens of owners doing the same without bots?

Not saying bots aren’t a problem, but that logic just says “because I didn’t have luck, it means the others are cheating”.

 

[Sandisw]

Weirdly enough while looking through the rules for the booking rules I found this in the home resort rules and regulations file.

View attachment 869112
I had 2 questions about this.
Does this mean that if you let someone stay for free they may use your direct benefits somehow?

And the last part seems to say that we are already supposed to let member services know when we book something as a rental? I have never heard of that requirement before???

Yes, notifying DVC has always been in play and of course, DVC could simply ask for a copy of the contract…

I do check the box on the online website when I am not on the reservation. I just rented a three night stay to one of my good friends, and yes, checked the box because she is not an owner.

But, the idea of a guest certificate that I mentioned in another thread…and they should be free if this was implemented…would be a simple way for DVC to handle it.

Owners provide guests who did not get charged with one…it includes the language this is not a rental…make it digitsl..and the owner csn send it to the guest from the DVC website…no limit required either

If a guest shows up without one, and they are not the owner, and the owner is not traveling in the group….then it’s assumed it’s a rental.

If the owner is traveling, then they can confirm any additional rooms are guest rooms since they are there.

 

[Sandisw]

To be fair, if you’re there trying to book at 8:00AM without a bot, what makes you believe there aren’t dozens of owners doing the same without bots?

Not saying bots aren’t a problem, but that logic just says “because I didn’t have luck, it means the others are cheating”.

To add, the hard to get rooms that show up on rental sites, have been booked by owners not using bots…we know that based on posts here.

So, I said ealrier, if bots are being used, they are not being used every day for all hard to get rooms, or, they have indeed been beat…