W. Va Hospitals Will Fire Unvaccinated Workers

[shrubber]

I have read through this thread a few times and as of yet have seen address some facts.
I question the entire premise that hospital workers need to vaccinated from the flu in the first place.
As was pointed out before, only 13% of nurses were vaccinated for the seasonal flu in the 2008 2009 flu season. These are men and woman with years of training in medicine and the prevention of disease and infections.
With all of their knowledge, they sited most often, the reason for not being vaccinated as the vaccines not being effective.
Hospital staff are trained to prevent infection of other people as well as themselves. If you were a hospital worker and thought that hords of flu victims would get you sick, I would assume you would get vaccinated. However, the vast majority of these nurses chose not to. Why? I think it a safe assumtion to say because the procedures they have in place are adequate. And so far they have been.
Where are studies of all of these people coming to the hospital with twisted ankles and such walking out with the flu? Google all you can, because they do not exist. There is no evidence that an unvaccinated medical staff heightens the spread of the flu.
Even with the tremendous amount of publicity and news coverage of this warrentless Swine flu debacle.
So the real question is why is the government trying to force vaccinations on hospital staff without any evidence that it has any benefit? Especially with all of the medical, ethical, and political baggage that goes along with such a mandate.
Saving face in light of the huge miscalculation of H1N1?
Securing more taxpayer dollars for vaccination programs?

 

[Piecey]

Thanks, that explains a lot. I must admit, the scope of your moral relativism is quite breathtaking. And legally, such rights don't exist. One person's "choice" in child rearing can in fact be "wrong" and not worthy to be "honored"... morally and legally.

Exactly.

People choose to beat their kids and spouses and even though it's their decision to do so, it's not right AT ALL and someone will step in and stop them.

 

[FireDancer]

Exactly.

People choose to beat their kids and spouses and even though it's their decision to do so, it's not right AT ALL and someone will step in and stop them.

That is a straw man argument. I am not condoning the braking of the law and said so in my post:

Unless it is against the law I never impose my beliefs on anyone and don't want theirs imposed on me.

Thanks, that explains a lot. I must admit, the scope of your moral relativism is quite breathtaking. And legally, such rights don't exist. One person's "choice" in child rearing can in fact be "wrong" and not worthy to be "honored"... morally and legally.

Yes, if it is deemed illegal it very well could be wrong. That doesn't mean everything deemed illegal should be deemed as such but I believe in using the proper channels to have such laws overturned. I don't care how people treat for their illnesses, if they hang laundry in their yards, if they put their garbage out a day early, if they eat meat or not, or anything else that is their business and not mine. I don't condone the breaking of any law (including the beating of their children or spouse) but I don't stick my nose into other people's affairs.

As far as I am aware there are protections for people who's faith doesn't allow them to see doctors or use "western medicine". I am not one of them but think if anyone is they have the right to be.

I do believe, however, that often times the best option is not a drug or vaccine but letting nature handle it the way it has for thousands of years. One of those thins for me includes allowing ourselves to just fight the flu with out immune system. Of course I don't believe every situation falls into this category, but I feel the flu does. When my first line of defense (lifestyle) fails I seek medical attention but it isn't my first choice.

I don't push that on anyone else because it isn't my business how you want to handle the issue. I am not trying to say this is the way for anyone else to go or that it will work for everyone. That isn't the issue. I'm sure you would want be to tell you that you can't have a flue vaccination about as much as I enjoy being told I should have it. It should just be a choice for everyone, even people working in a hospital.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

This statement makes it sound as though you are calling parents that don't get their child every vaccine irresponsible. That is not the case. There are people who get every vaccine, people who get none, and people who are just selective and make the decision based on the particular vaccine.

All of these people are equally responsible because they are choosing what they think is best for their child. Some parents raise their children as vegetarians, some vegan, some with diets that include meat. None of them are right or wrong, they are choices.

Sorry, but your logic is faulty. Raising a child as a vegan has NO health impact on the rest of the population.

Not vaccinating DOES have the potential to impact someones health.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Piecey, this is not just about jobs. It's about personal freedoms. Freedoms that our founding fathers gave their lives for. Freedoms which are currently still sacred in this country.

Here's an example of what we have to look forward to: http://blogs.law.stanford.edu/lawan...date-on-new-york-mandatory-h1n1-vaccinations/

Food for thought, from the health care worker's perspective:

Freedoms our founding fathers gave their lives for???

I am a drunk who likes to drink.... why can't I drive?
Why do I have a number to prove my identity (SSN)?
Why is there a law that I have to wear a seat belt?
Why cant an adult drink at age 19?
Why can my communications be monitored?
The constitution gives me the right to bear arms - why do I need a permit?
Why can't I smoke everywhere I want?
Why can't I travel to Cuba for vacation?
Why can the government seize my property?
Why can't I build the house I want (zoning laws) on my own land?
Why do I have to wear a motorcycle helmet?
Why do my kids have to go to school?
Why can't I drive whatever speed I want?
Why can't I smoke dope?

Certain personal freedoms go away for the good of public safety. There is a reason vaccines are mandated for kids entering schools.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Freedoms our founding fathers gave their lives for???

Yeah, that little thing called Liberty.

Certain personal freedoms go away for the good of public safety. There is a reason vaccines are mandated for kids entering schools.

Is that not what I said in my post?

The question becomes, is the current influenza situation enough to warrant mandatory vaccines, ie to place public health over individual liberties?

That remains to be seen legally.

There are many who think it does not.

 

[FireDancer]

Sorry, but your logic is faulty. Raising a child as a vegan has NO health impact on the rest of the population.

Not vaccinating DOES have the potential to impact someones health.

I don't care. I'm not going to change my mind. I am not about to put something into my body because it may or may not effect someone else.

As for all of the "liberties" you mentioned in the other post those are also straw man arguments. No one is condoning drinking and driving or breaking any laws. Liberty doesn't mean no laws apply to you it means in the absence of law your own conscious and no one else's should be your compass. I want the freedom to choose my own medical treatment or precautions, not anarchy.

 

[lsyorke]

If a person cannot take the vaccine because they are allergic to eggs (or any number of other valid medical reasons) and they are infected with the flu because some 'medical professional' didn't take the vaccine, it's their fault?

No, it's no more their fault than the person standing in line with them at the mall. You're trying to make it sound like vaccinations are invincible...they are not, especially the seasonal flu vaccine. And the reference to the "other poster" who said that some don't use universal precautions..now that's something that the hospitals should be addressing, not mandatory vaccinations that may or may not protect anyone.

I would guess that your chance of catching the flu in the hospital is much, much greater than in other aspects of your daily life

And that is an assumption on your part. Few get hospitalized for the flu, so the exposure is no different that the exposure in the general public...in fact probably lower. We know what our patients have and any competent medical professional takes precautions.
Somehow for years we have managed to not kill our patients...despite not having the seasonal flu vaccine.

Just because the vaccine doesn't work against each and every strain of teh flu is no reason not to protect patients against the strains that it does protect against.Unfortunately, emergency departments need to remain staffed.The situation presented by the OP is certainly unlike that covered by the NY decision. No rights are being violated here.

Your nurse getting the vaccine doesn't protect the patient..the patient getting the vaccine protects the patient. And the OP's post is exactly what the NY decision was about.
Just because someone chooses to be in the medical profession doesn't mean that they give up all their rights about what they put in their bodies. There are processes in place to minimize the spread of most diseases...the flu is the least of the patients worries when it comes to disease proliferation.