Visa Query

[maureen4200040]

Hi all,

I need some advice and thought someone on Dis may know the answer.

I have friends planning a trip to Orlando next year August 2010. There are 2 people in the party that have a police record. One for drink driving from Oct 08, and the other one for giving a off duty copper a slap Feb 09(very unlucky in his choice of receipent for the slap).

My query is has anyone or does anyone know if other people have been successful in getting visa's with similar types of convictions. I might add that no one has been to prison.

If so can you give me your success stories (or a very good lawyer). Or seriously advise me on how to go about applying for these visa's. I've been on the website and I'm more confused that ever.

PS. if anyone has a link to a similar thread can you please add so I can read it, but only if there's a good result with entry to the USA.

Thanking you in advance
Maureen4200040

 

[wilma-bride]

Hi, just wanted to reply if only to say just because nobody has replied, it doesn't mean we're being unfriendly/unhelpful. Chances are that nobody really knows the answer to the question.

Although the guy with the drink driving conviction should be OK, it is hard to say about the other person in your party as (in my opinion) his crime is possibly considered more severe in terms of judging the risk he may impose when travelling to a foreign country (and, essentially, that's what they are doing when considering whether to grant a visa or not). I'm not saying that drink driving isn't severe, it's just that they are two completely different crimes and will likely be judged differently.

As far as whether visas will be granted or not, I suspect that nobody will be able to put your mind at rest and tell you for sure, unless there happens to be another poster here who has assaulted a police officer before, been convicted and been granted a visa or another person who has been convicted of drink driving and granted a visa.

Hopefully, though, someone will be able to help you out with explaining the process for applying.

 

[Funky_dino]

im pretty sure The driving conviction you don't have to declare on the Visa waiver it only focus's on other arrests, charges etc.

For piece of mind i'd say it;s worth going for a Visa, least that way if he has one it will put his mind at rest. I know it did once I got mine.

Best thing to do is get them to read through here.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/visa/niv/add_crime.html

it has a guide to see if you need to get one or not.

 

[jackieleanne]

I would still declare it my sister has a friend that just went out for their wedding they decided not to declare her fiance's conviction as it was a minor conviction that had occured 30 years ago and they decided not to put it down and when they got to America immigration took the couple away from the rest of their family and sent them on the next plane back under police escort. So you should definatly declare it better to try and get the visa than to have to go through anything like that.

 

[UKDEB]

You are entitled to apply for entry under the Visa Waiver Program provided you have never have been arrested or convicted for an offence or crime involving moral turpitude or crimes with a maximum aggregate sentence of 5 years' imprisonment or more, no matter how long ago. For the purposes of immigration, the United States Department of State defines moral turpitude as such:

Crimes against property
Fraud:
Making false representation
Knowledge of such false representation by the perpetrator
Reliance on the false representation by the person defrauded
An intent to defraud
The actual act of committing fraud
Evil intent:
Arson
Blackmail
Burglary
Embezzlement
Extortion
False pretenses
Forgery
Fraud
Larceny (grand or petty)
Malicious destruction of property
Receiving stolen goods (with guilty knowledge)
Robbery
Theft (when it involves the intention of permanent taking)
Transporting stolen property (with guilty knowledge)

Crimes against governmental authority
Bribery
Counterfeiting
Fraud against revenue or other government functions
Mail fraud
Perjury
Harboring a fugitive from justice (with guilty knowledge)
Tax evasion (willful)

Crimes against person, family relationship, and ***ual morality
Abandonment of a minor child (if willful and resulting in the destitution of the child)
Adultery (see INA 101** repealed by Public Law 97-116)
Assault (this crime is broken down into several categories, which involve moral turpitude):
Assault with intent to kill, commit rape, commit robbery or commit serious bodily harm
Assault with a dangerous or deadly weapon
Bigamy
Contributing to the delinquency of a minor
Gross indecency
Incest (if the result of an improper ***ual relationship)
Kidnapping
Lewdness
Manslaughter:
Voluntary
Involuntary (where the statute requires proof of recklessness, which is defined as the awareness and conscious disregard of a substantial and unjustified risk which constitutes a gross deviation from the standard that a reasonable person would observe in the situation. A conviction for the statutory offense of vehicular homicide or other involuntary manslaughter only requires a showing of negligence will not involve moral turpitude even if it appears the defendant in fact acted recklessly)
Mayhem
Murder
Pandering
Prostitution
Rape (including "Statutory rape" by virtue of the victim's age)
Sodomy

Attempts, aiding and abetting, accessories and conspiracy
An attempt to commit a crime deemed to involve moral turpitude
Aiding and abetting in the commission of a crime deemed to involve moral turpitude
Being an accessory (before or after the fact) in the commission of a crime deemed to involve moral turpitude
Taking part in a conspiracy (or attempting to take part in a conspiracy) to commit a crime involving moral turpitude where the attempted crime would not itself constitute moral turpitude.

Importantly, crimes not involving moral turpitude include:

Damaging private property (where intent to damage not required)
Breaking and entering (requiring no specific or implicit intent to commit a crime involving moral turpitude)
Passing bad checks (where intent to defraud not required)
Possessing stolen property (if guilty knowledge is not essential)
Joy riding (where the intention to take permanently not required)
Juvenile delinquency
Trespassing
Black market violations
Breach of the peace
Carrying a concealed weapon
Desertion from the Armed Forces
Disorderly conduct
Drunk or reckless driving
Driving while license suspended or revoked
Drunkenness
Escape from prison
Failure to report for military induction
False statements (not amounting to perjury or involving fraud)
Firearm violations
Gambling violations
Immigration violations
Liquor violations
Loan sharking
Lottery violations
Minor traffic violations
Possessing burglar tools (without intent to commit burglary)
Smuggling and customs violations (where intent to commit fraud is absent)
Tax evasion (without intent to defraud)
Vagrancy
Assault (simple) (i.e., any assault, which does not require an evil intent or depraved motive, although it may involve the use of a weapon, which is neither dangerous nor deadly)
*******y (i.e., the offense of begetting a ******* child)
Creating or maintaining a nuisance (where knowledge that premises were used for prostitution is not necessary)
Fornication
Incest (when a result of a marital status prohibited by law)
Involuntary manslaughter (when killing is not the result of recklessness)
Libel
Mailing an obscene letter
Mann Act violations (where coercion is not present)
Riot
Suicide (attempted)

It would appear that both the incidents you describe are caught under those in the final set (i.e. not involving moral turpitude) and, therefore, that those travelling are entitled to travel under the VWP as they can honestly answer "no" to all the relevant questions on the ESTA/I-94W, but, of course, we're privy to neither the full details of these particular cases nor the inner workings of the US Immigration Service.

 

[maureen4200040]

Thanks to everyone for your helpful comments.

Big thank you to UKDeb for your post, it has been most helpful. The information will be passed on and I think they will go forth and apply and see what happens.


Maureen420040

 

[Beep]

My OH was arrested and fined for being drunk and disorderly about 25 years ago and he applied for a visa, although it clearly didn't fall under moral turpitude.

The US Embassy website (London one) stated anyone arrested needs a visa so he was taking no chances. He got the visa no problem whatsoever and the process was painless, although inconvenient and expensive.

When we got to immigration in Sanford the first time they asked what his visa was for. They practically laughed at him when he told them and told him not to renew it when it had expired. We asked about the info on the UK Embassy website and they said it was a great way for them to raise funds!

They made a joke about me only being able to stay for 3 months on the VWP and him for 6 months so if he met a nice USA girl he could stay. Charming!!

The second time we went through Sanford they didn't even ask about the visa.

He has decided that he will renew it when it is due to be on the safe side.

Incidentally, we found it interesting that we needed to take a copy of the police record which was blank. The Embassy said they had no access to police records hence having to take a copy of it - makes you wonder how the US can see them and turn people back...

If you need any info about the visa application process or any other info give me a shout

 

[UKDEB]

I think you've hit the nail on the head in a number of regards, Beep. If you ask the question, you're always going to be told you need to apply for a Visa. However, if you actually look at the question posed on the ESTA/I-94W it asks, "Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more?" If, based on the US Immigration Service's own definition of moral turpitude, you can honestly answer "no" to this question, I can see no reason why you need to apply for a Visa.

Whilst the US and the UK, naturally, share information about dangerous criminals, the US Immigration Service does not have access to our police records. Can you imagine the outcry? Our own government can't even get national identity cards past the civil liberties lobby. And can you see the US agreeing to give other countries access to such information on its citizens? Not in a million! Why would we agree to a one-way arrangement?

 

[maureen4200040]

Hi all,

I need some advice and thought someone on Dis may know the answer.

I have friends planning a trip to Orlando next year August 2010. There are 2 people in the party that have a police record. One for drink driving from Oct 08, and the other one for giving a off duty copper a slap Feb 09(very unlucky in his choice of receipent for the slap).

My query is has anyone or does anyone know if other people have been successful in getting visa's with similar types of convictions. I might add that no one has been to prison.

If so can you give me your success stories (or a very good lawyer). Or seriously advise me on how to go about applying for these visa's. I've been on the website and I'm more confused that ever.

PS. if anyone has a link to a similar thread can you please add so I can read it, but only if there's a good result with entry to the USA.

Thanking you in advance
Maureen4200040

Just to keep you up dated about the above post. I'm pleased announce that as of the 12/3/2010, both friends were granted a 10 year visa to America. Hooray

 

[Tammy Stringer]

Well done - that must be a relief - now they will have nothing to worry about and can relax and look forward to their forthcoming trip

Tammy

 

[maureen4200040]

Thanks Tammy,

 

[wicket2005]

Nice to have no worries now and just plan for the trip.

 

[Ware Bears]

That must be a big relief for them ~ hope they enjoy their planning.

 

[Beep]

That's great news, glad it worked out for them.

Just as an update here, we went to Orlando last Dec (MCO this time) and the guy at immigration asked what the visa was for. Tim explained and the guy said they had to ask as there was no record of what it was for on their systems.

 

[maureen4200040]

Hi Beep

The forms you have to fill in just to get into America with the embassy is a joke. Its all money money, I'm glad they got a visa for 10 years I would'nt fancy filling those forms every year.

I feel sorry for those people applying now, they've changed to a DS-160 form which is now mandatory, people are having so much trouble just uploading the photo.

Some free advice about the photo, On the 1st page after the start application button upload your photograph - if you get the following error: your photograph does'nt meet our requirements etc. Click-continue without the photo, which will bring you back onto the 1st page - as long as it says photo failed you can just continue with the form without it, and take a couple of passport pictures with you to your interview. As confirm by embassy staff.

 

[kristieuk]

Great news - it's good to see feedback on this as it's a question lots of people ask.

 

[Beep]

Hi Beep

The forms you have to fill in just to get into America with the embassy is a joke. Its all money money, I'm glad they got a visa for 10 years I would'nt fancy filling those forms every year.

I feel sorry for those people applying now, they've changed to a DS-160 form which is now mandatory, people are having so much trouble just uploading the photo.

Some free advice about the photo, On the 1st page after the start application button upload your photograph - if you get the following error: your photograph does'nt meet our requirements etc. Click-continue without the photo, which will bring you back onto the 1st page - as long as it says photo failed you can just continue with the form without it, and take a couple of passport pictures with you to your interview. As confirm by embassy staff.

Oh that sounds like fun!

It's a strange one with this visa lark isn't it? He has now decided that when we go back in October he is going to try and ask Immigration for confirmation as to whether he needs a visa or not. He's braver than me!

 

[crabbie1]

my DB has his interview at the us embassey tomorrow and I am sooooooooooooo nervous. It was for a drink drive ban which fortunatley he gets his license back whilst we are due to be in florida. We have had a run of bad luck and I keep asking him if he has filled in the forms in correctly if he has all the correct documents as apparently they are really strict and will send you away if you forget something to reapply and pay for it all again
Please send me some disney magic so I can relax and look forward to our amazing holiday to the mouse and that my DB will be able to join us

 

[2Tiggies]

Hey, I said yesterday, no more bad luck for you!

I am sure they would have sent a checklist of docs he needs. He should also get someone to go though it for him as a fresh pair of eyes is always a good idea.

In the mean time, go take a nice shower under some of this:

 

[howlongtillsummer?]

When my DH got his he found it to be no trouble at all. Make sure he has all his documents (list on embassy website), respect the staff and be punctual but prepared to wait. His officer was lovely to him (maybe due to mild nature of his conviction?) and he knew that day that he would get a 10 year visa (already been twice on it), it arrived two days later and then you will both feel great!!! It took about two hours.

It will be worth it once you have that precious visa