Virgin Villas

[marv]

Has any one stayed at these villas. We plan to go back in 2006 and i have been looking through virgin's brochure. I know these villas are allocated to you on arrivall so it would be good if i could get some feed back from any one that has travelled on this package with virgin.

Thanks Marv

 

[JANNYANS]

Have you thought about booking direct with an owner ? This way you will know exactly where your villa is and what it has in it.You can ask the owner any questions you like and get any information you require from them .If you book this far in advance you may also get a discount.Give it thought and if you want any help get in touch

 

[marv]

Yes i have thought about this, i was given a qoute for a 1 month stay in 2005 from virgin all in, and it seems that doing DIY would work out more expensive, as the average price of a villa for a week at April seems to aroung £500.00. I was qouted just over £4,000 for flights, accomadation, car, and innsurance. This price may be different in 2006 but i cant find out untill Dec this year.

Marv

 

[Leech esq]

We Did a Virgin package at Christmas,two weeks Orlando Villa, one week Frt Myers Villa.The problems we had before we set off were ; 1. We didn't know where we were staying,had visions of good views etc,but it was nothing like that when we got there.
2. We would have liked to have turned the pool heating on for our arrival,but they told us we had to wait till we get there(takes 24hrs to heat up)
3. Although we booked at the beginning of the year,the Villa we got in Orlando was very tired,most things needed attention.
4. The second Villa was more up to date very nice, but two of the kids had to sleep in a double bed.
We paid for the pool heating up front when we got there but the heater didn't work when the temp dropped below 42f,we didn't get a refund.
One of the reps at the Virgin office was very unapproachable
We sent a letter of complaint to Virgin,they've given us £200 in vouchers,this is not enough for the discomfort they caused,and will barely cover the pool heating bill.we now await their reply.
Although we are frequent Virgins, the whole experience has put them in the mediocre league in my opinion.
Geoff

 

[JANNYANS]

The trouble with homes that are booked through agents such as virgin is that the owner ends up with so little money that it may wel be difficult for them to keep upgrading thei home and that is why you may get a tired home that need attention. From the money you pay the agent there are two sets of commission to come out plus utilties and taxes and as a large organisation the agent gets rock bottom prices anyway .So you may pay a bit more renting direct -but you will be secure in the knowledge that the home is cared for and upgraded regularly that you will know exactly what you are getting and that there is someone on the end of a phone at all times for you to contact

As far as pool heat goes it does take 24 hours to heat up so booking in advance is always advisable .The heaters also do not work very well if the outside temperature drops as the ambient air temp takes away any heat built up so if your home has a pool cover always use it -it is amazing the difference it makes.

 

[vernon]

The trouble with homes that are booked through agents such as virgin is that the owner ends up with so little money that it may wel be difficult for them to keep upgrading thei home and that is why you may get a tired home that need attention

Sorry but I disagree with this comment. Any decent management company is going to make sure the homes they rent out come up to a certain standard. There is so much competition in Orlando with holiday villas that the agents can cherry pick the houses they want to run (the only "exception" to this can occassionally be at ultra busy times like Xmas and Easter when the companies are running at above 100% occupancy and have to drag out any houses they have access to) It can however be said that renting privately, while usually much cheaper, you do run the risk that the house you rent will not suit the needs or standards of a particular customer and if you've rented direct there is nothing you can do to change it. While there will always be cases where agents prove to be ineffective, you do have an office where you can physically turn up and demand effective action over a major problem.

So you may pay a bit more renting direct -but you will be secure in the knowledge that the home is cared for and upgraded regularly that you will know exactly what you are getting and that there is someone on the end of a phone at all times for you to contact

This simply is not true in all cases, a worst case scenario when renting direct freom an owner is a house that isn't what you expected, your point of reference is based in the UK and the phone doesn't get answered. As Leech's post shows, if you get a unsuitable house (even at peak times) the companies will usually work hard to find you an alternate unit. If you rent direct how is that owner going to find you another house?

The benefits of renting direct is that it is usually cheaper (removing the layers of commissions) but it is not true that you get better protection if you do so. It is by far more likely that you'll get a problem dealt with if you have access to "people on the ground" in the area like a holiday rep or a management company office to stand in and create merry hell if you don't get adiquate service than if you're trying to call the UK and hope that the owners are not out shopping for the day or just plain ignoring you because they know they've "sold you a pup".

Janny I know you have a decent knowledge of the holiday rentals situation and that I'm sure you feel your own home is presented in a first class fashion, but if your advise is not to be seen as biased (in order to promote your own interests) you need to give a much more balanced and correct response to posts concerning villas.

My own view on villa rentals is that private rentals can work well if you've had person recommendations or are reasonably well versed in the business. For a novice it makes more sense, IMHO, to use some type of agent. Most of the UK agents simply use local Florida agents and take an extra commission themselves so I feel that taking a middle ground of using a reputable Florida based agent offers the middle ground between cost savings and ability to deal with problems in the unlikely event they arise.

 

[Daniel&family]

If you are prepared to do the research I would always recommend booking direct with the owners.

Booking this way you can guarantee the location and other features you may want (games room, south facing pool for example).

I also disagree with Vernon and feel that you can get a better standard of villa booking direct. We have just booked a villa for next April and many of the better villas had already been booked. It seems to me owners of the better villas have little problem in renting their villas in the current market, so why would they make them available to the likes of Virgin and accept a vastly reduced rent (after Virgin's cut).

Vernon also implies that you have no redress if there is a problem whilst you are at the villa. In my experience this is simply not the case, as most villa owners use management companies who are based locally and offer 24hr emergency cover.

As I said through research is necessary and there can be a feeling of 'taking a risk' when booking direct (although I havn't seen any nightmare stories about doing this), but the accommodation WILL BE BETTER and more suited to your exact needs.

N.b (Vernon) I am not a villa owner and my opinion is entirely objective and totally un-baised .


Yours

Daniel

 

[JANNYANS]

Vernon - I think you have enough experience to know that all owners have a management company on call 24/7 and the likely hood of being left high and dry is unlikely and the point of reference is actually in the states.

I do not need to promote my home via various postings as I am fully booked almost back to back for the year some of the guests being from this board who have contacted me and find the inference that this is the only reason I post very unsavoury .I try to put the owners point of view and help those who may be thinking of going along these lines for the first time as I apprecuiate ity can be a daunting prospect for someone who has never done it before .If I can help put someones mind at rest by posting then I will try to do it .Posts saying you have no redress if you rent direct are not true or helpful

As to renting from Florida based agent -this offers no protection at all as there was one company who left several owners high and dry only earlier this year by not having the home they had booked .

Obviously some man cos do not take much interest in the homes they rent out other wise leech esq would not have got a home that

was very tired,most things needed attention.

People will book homes via the way they feel most comfortable with -there are those that will never do it direct and that is their perogative - but those that do want to go a different route need guidance and advise and If I can do that then thats fine.

 

[vernon]

I also disagree with Vernon and feel that you can get a better standard of villa booking direct

Daniel, if you read what I said I didn't say that you get a worse standard of accommodation booking through an owner, I was disagreeing with Janny that if you book direct you will get a better standard of accommodation. As most owners also use villa rental companies to manage their house you have the same statistical chance of getting a good, bad or unsuitable house that are on a rental companies books. What you have less chance of getting by using a reputable rental company is the real garbage ( that does unfortunately exist even if it is very rarely). A side issue (and one I've tried to allude to) is UNSUITABLE , there are some situations where a house may be in top class order, but is unsuitable for a particular group. An owner may feel it is not fair for them to lose their rental for a reason that wasn't explained to them prior to the visit, but the person renting is not happy with a house for a particular ( to them valid) reason. If you rent direct there is a chance you can have that type of dispute where both parties feel they are in the right and not prepared to move. Using a rental company, their job is to arbitrate those situations to a conclusion that is acceptable to all.

It seems to me owners of the better villas have little problem in renting their villas in the current market

At busy times ( xmas, Easter and summer hols) I would agree with you, the rest of the year that is not the case. As a former owner of a rental home ( so I feel my, at times, stressful personal experience trumps your supposition) I can assure you that, in the majority of cases, you are wrong.

Vernon also implies that you have no redress if there is a problem whilst you are at the villa. In my experience this is simply not the case, as most villa owners use management companies who are based locally and offer 24hr emergency cover

Daniel, I agree with your comment 100%, but where your comment and your logic part company is the small word MOST. Most BUT NOT ALL owners use management companies. I agree with you that research is a vital part of the whole process, there are pitfalls and while those arise very rarely for many people a trip to Florida is a once in a life time experience, I feel that for those people that are not experienced in booking holidays themselves and are not well versed in the process are better suited to pay the small premium that using an agent involves because , in my experience, it is a safer route. It may only be a 1 in 10,000 chance that you get a bad owner, but if that's your "once in a lifetime" trip that you have worked for several years to save for, it provides a memorable "life experience" for all the wrong reasons.


Jannyanns said

Vernon - I think you have enough experience to know that all owners have a management company on call 24/7 and the likely hood of being left high and dry is unlikely and the point of reference is actually in the states

Again you're not correct. While that is the case in the majority of cases there are a relatively small number of owners that do not use professional management companies and prefer to use friends, relatives or neighbours to organise cleaning and repairs. MOST but not ALL owners have professional management companies organising their homes, but again not all companies are on call 24/7. Your claims are disingenuous

Posts saying you have no redress if you rent direct are not true or helpful

Under Florida law what are your legal duties to provide a private renter with alternate accomodation if they do not like the paintwork in your house? Not moral. your legal responsibilities. Do you even know? Because your comments suggest that you do not.

As to renting from Florida based agent -this offers no protection at all as there was one company who left several owners high and dry only earlier this year by not having the home they had booked

1) This is why you research and use a reputable company and
2) Legally in this situation you are entitled to a full refund IMMEDIATELY from the local agents. If they do not provide it you should call the local authorities and they will ensure that your refund is paid. If you rent from a foreign owner, their local agent have no legal duty to repay you and you can not try to claim back your monies until you return to the UK ( even then your legal rights are much less protected). The owner can quite justifiably say the contract was that the owner provides a property for the rentee to stay in for that time. If the house proves unsuitable then that is going to be very hard to prove whil ein the UK for a Florida home. Caveat Emptor !!!! Is a well know legal precedent in this country. Legally the owner of the house holds pretty much all the cards ( and your money )

Obviously some man cos do not take much interest in the homes they rent out other wise leech esq would not have got a home that

Wading through the mess I think I've worked out what you're trying to say. Again if you'd thought about what was posted you'd notice that 1) Geoff mentioned this was Xmas ( covered in my post) and that he was provided with a suitable replacement. The pool heating issue ( which I'm not sure which villa it applied) , if it was the 2nd villa, could be "justified" by the fact that this was not the original villa and that the company were not able to find a villa that had functioning heating. It's not acceptable the way that Virgin have dealt with the following problem so far, but had Geoff rented the original villa from an owner direct would he be guaranteed that he would have been able to get a villa that was satisfactory in other ways?
At Xmas I would suggest not.

 

[Leech esq]

Sorry to dive back in ,but we weren't offered a replacement villa,the second Villa was down in Frt Myers.We were told to give them time to fix the problems,which we did and some of the problems were fixed after three or four days but,things like the patio doors not shutting or opening very well, couldn't be fixed,as the doors didn't fit in the opening properly,this wasn't so bad till the alarm contact dropped off,which meant we couldn't set the alarm.The washing machine which was apparently quite new,putting lots of fluff on our clothes - the rental company advised us to get a lint brush

 

[JANNYANS]

If you rent direct you should not get a house that is unsuitable for your party as you know exactly what you are getting before you go .
The owners I know of who do not use a man co live extremely close to their property and are on call for their guests or have as you say family doing the job -they still have someone to call on in times of need

.If someone does not like the colour I have painted my home they won't book it as they can see what its like before they go.

If a company goes under -as in the case that I referred to who is there to claim from? There's no one in the office answering the phone

Leech did book through a reputable company -Virgin is one of the biggest in the UK and he still got a raw deal . They have offices in the area with people on call but they couldn't help.

 

[vernon]

If you rent direct you should not get a house that is unsuitable for your party as you know exactly what you are getting before you go

No you don't, the person renting is trusting the owner that the details and website tell the full story. This falls down because of the following,

Not every detail of any house is covered in any website.

Not every owner is truthful in the way they advertise their homes.

Not every detail that can go wrong is controllable by a foreign owner (for example the departments of power,water or roads could be doing maintenance outside your bedroom window the week you're there). Situations change and sometime they change in a very short space of time. It's very possible the owner doesn't even know of a situation arising until a guest informs them of it.

The owners I know of who do not use a man co live extremely close to their property and are on call for their guests or have as you say family doing the job -they still have someone to call on in times of need

Earlier you said

Vernon - I think you have enough experience to know that all owners have a management company on call 24/7 and the likely hood of being left high and dry is unlikely and the point of reference is actually in the states.

So which is it? All owners have a management company on call or you know owners that don't use a management company. If you are to give full, correct and impartial advice you need to get some consistancy in your comments.

If a company goes under -as in the case that I referred to who is there to claim from?

If a company goes under and you have proof that you have paid them you have a number of options.
1) If you pay by Credit card you should be covered under their workings as you didn't receive goods/services as promised. If you pay a UK based owner by cheque that would not be the case.

2) Your own travel insurance should cover you in this eventuality. Before booking a villa with a non ABTA bonded company it's a good idea to see if your insurance will cover this situation.

3) I haven't rented a house for a while, but previously I have used companies where I paid a deposit and the balance was due when I collected the keys.

Leech did book through a reputable company -Virgin is one of the biggest in the UK and he still got a raw deal . They have offices in the area with people on call but they couldn't help.

Not having been there I can't comment on how the situation was handled from either end. I can only say ( and this isn't to defend Virgin's poor efforts) that I wouldn't have accepted their brush off and I wouldn't have accepted a delay of 3 or 4 days to get problems fixed. Unfortunately many people in the holiday industry ( both Brits and Americans) know that Brits are far more likely to be fobbed off and will accept a situation that American's wouldn't. The only time I have been in a similar situation to Geoff's I went to the office armed with a list ( actually two copies of the same list and asked them to sign my copy as an official recognition of their receipt of the list. This did seem to unnerve them more than a little ) of complaints, a camera that I told them I had used to photograph the problems and I told them that I was not going to accept the house and if that company could not find me a replacement I would find alternate accommodation and sue them for any extra cost I incurred. After about an hour of them arguing and trying to wear me down they realised it wasn't going to wash, I was causing them embarrassment as other customers were coming in and there was a decent possibility I wasn't bluffing they did find me somewhere to stay ( which was excellent I have to say).

Rule 1 is don't be fobbed off if you get an accommodation that you don't want in the US (this goes for hotels as well). DO NOT ACCEPT IT. If you argue long and hard enough they will almost always back down. Geoff I'm not being critical of your handling of the situation. I understand that it can seem a lot of hassle to get what you want and that many of the reps are trained in how to fob off customers with promises , just to get you out the door. Legally, once you've accepted a situation for a few days you're in a much weaker position and the companies know that if they can fob you off for 5 or 6 days of a 2 week stay it's unlikely that you will be bothered to go through the agg of moving. I'm sure that you've learned from the experience and that it's unlikely that you'd be as accommodating in the future.

 

[JANNYANS]

If you have paid for a service and not received it then even if you pay by check you can take the person to court regardless of where the person live.

How can you be sure that the homes shown on a company website are truthfully represented just because an individual sell their own home doesn't make any difference to the truthfullness of the facts. Not every detail that can go wrong can be controlled by someone sat in an office on the 192 either but in the case of things going wrong then there is the opportunity to put them right however the home is booked .

I say again I have no problem with people booking through an agent just as I have no problem with those who stay on site rather than off

I do however feel that people should not be scared of booking with an individual owner and if I can help put minds at rest I will .

 

[Daniel&family]

Dear Vernon

Just a relatively quick post in response to your posts, which I have unusually found particularly disingenous.

Regarding your first response to my post, if you had read MY post correctly or would like to reread the quote you used, I didn't say that you said ''you would get a worse quality of accommodation booking directly with an owner''. I said that I disagreed with you (i.e. I agreed with Jan), and that I thought you would get get a better standard of accommodation by booking direct. I hope that this is now clear, although I thought my original post was unambiguous on this point.

Also my post quite clearly stated ''if you are prepared to do the research'' & ''through research is necessary''. Part of this research would naturally be into the suitability of the property for your needs (as I felt was obvious from my first post) & into the management company used to look after the property. Therefore the small minority of owners without reputable management companies would be discounted as would substandard properties. It is obvious that if someone booked the first property that was available on the net that the quality could not be assured, BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT I WAS ADVOCATING. I therefore feel your references to the few properties that are not looked after by management companies to be totally irrelevant and your references to my 'logic' contemptuous.

My 'suposition' that owners of the best property have little problem renting their villas was from looking at their availability calenders not just for my dates but for the whole year (n.b. next April is not Easter and nor is it peak period) & this assumption is also backed up by Jan's experience. The fact that you did not have this level of success could be down to a number of reasons, such as marketing, a downturn in the rental market or dare I say, that your villa wasn't one of the better ones to which Jan and I were refering to. So please forgive me if I don't put too much weight on your 'assurances' (PLEASE DON'T FORGET THAT WE ARE REFERING TO THE BEST VILLAS THAT HAVE BEEN RESEARCHED).

Your reference to the colour of the paint doesn't really warrant much of a response except that legally I would assume that there would be the same redress as with Virgin (presuming that the contract was part of your RESEARCH) and of course that you can find out the colour of the paint before you book (all part of the RESEARCH if it's important to you), which incidently you can't with Virgin, as Jan has eloquently said.

Could I also point out to you Vernon that advise is a verb and that you are guilty of using it a noun (the noun is adviCe). I refer to this because of my disappointment in your resorting to a snide comment regarding Jan's grammer. I know there will be many grammatical errors in my post, but I hope we can refrain from any such future references which are more typical of the Debate Board at it's worst.

This post does unfortunatley read quite confrontational, which wasn't my original intention and IF this thread is to continue, I suggest we look for common ground. The need for research is certainly one point we do agree on, if someones decides to book direct.

This however brings me to the reason I first posted on this thread, which was your implication that Jan was posting out of selfish motives. I found this implication to be offensive to Jan and totally unwarranted. We all agree research is necessary and I think it's a pity that you have apparently misconstrued her intentions when helping fellow Disers. I do hope that regardless of how much you disagree with me on other points that you are prepared to appologize to Jan for this.


Yours

DANIEL

 

[jana]

To tell you the truth my first thought in reading Jannyans post was that it was a chance to pitch her house. That may have not been her intentions but it does tend to look that way.

 

[UKDEB]

Whilst I invariably find Jannyans posts to villa threads mildly irritating, her orginal post on this particular thread was perfectly acceptable. I do agree with Vernon that, as a villa owner, she needs to be mindful of offering a much more balanced view, but I find Vernon's point scoring and extremely <i>imbalanced</i> posts totally unacceptable given that he's a moderator of these boards. They are certainly not helpful to Marv.

 

[vernon]

but I find Vernon's point scoring and extremely imbalanced posts totally unacceptable given that he's a moderator of these boards. They are certainly not helpful to Marv.

Deb while you may think my posts are imbalanced I've reread them and I don't agree, as I have received PMs from some DIS readers saying that they agree with what I have said I guess I'm not alone. I believe they counter and correct many incorrect assertions that have been made.
It was asserted you always get a better quality of house booking direct, that is not correct.
It was asserted you get more protection booking direct with an owner , that is certainly not correct.
It was asserted (and later contradicted) that all owners have management companies on the ground 24/7 that is certainly not correct.

I could go on, but it would simply be repeating the points I've already made ad nausium. Whether my posts are helpful to Merv or not is really something only they can answer.

With my "moderator" hat on. Deb what you and Daniel do not have access to is the large number of complaints we have received over the years from people over what they deem as being overt advertising and touting for business by owners seeking to promote their own villas. This can include constant pushing of private rentals, without giving the counter benefits of using a management company. It can include constant references in posts of "my villa that I rent out", the use of links to private pages advertising villas in peoples signatures and even things like "myvilla 98,99,00,01" etc. This also runs to people being sent unsolicited private messages offering their villa for rent. Some of those activities run directly counter to the rules of this site and result in the extremely tedious duty for us of having to send out warnings to those concerned of what is and what is not allowed. Some of those activities are on the borderline and are left untouched. It may be subliminal advertising, it may be innocent but many people feel Janny's posts are driven by a desire to push forward private villa rentals in general and her own in particular. It may be that she deeply and strongly believes that is the best option, but the impression given by her biased posts is often that it is a business advertisement.

Back to the point at hand, as I have stated before private rentals can be a very economic and satisfactory undertaking for those experienced in the whole villa situation. I agree Daniel that research is vital, but I feel that for relative novices in the business without knowledge of what is "standard" and expected it is much more difficult for a "virgin" to guaranty they get a good deal or property. In those circumstances I think it's a better option to go the route of using an agent, because IMHO , it offers more protection. I know there are many people who will put forward the private rentals route, but IMHO this is always done with the benefit of hindsight. For people who've never booked a villa before, and particularly when this is going to be a "once in a lifetime" trip I do not think the savings are worth the concerns that most people would naturally feel leading up to their holiday. There are risks inherent in booking direct and this site ( and the moderators working in it) are not doing their job if they allow advice to go out that does not make those risks plainly known.

 

[marv]

ooops! It seems i may have caused a bit of a debate here and ime even more confused now.

Marv

 

[SEVANS2208]

Marv

To get back to your initial query!! We've stayed twice now in villas booked through Virgin. On both occassions the villa's were lovely and suited our requirements. The first time we were at the far east of the 192 and on the second time it was just off the west end of the 192. This is the only disadvantage - although you know now roughly where you'll be (Virgin, i think tend to be at the west end of the 192 now), the villas are further away from WDW than we like.

The only criticism I had of one of the villas was that we had v. noisy back neighbours - one call to the sherriff office soon sorted that out though!! Also, Virgin can't be held responsible for the people in neighbouring houses!!

Anyway, the next time we go we're booking a fly drive with Virgin and a villa independently. That way we get the best of both worlds. We have Virgin to fall back on (not with the villa, obviously) and we can choose a villa which is in a better location for us.

We have priced both of these options and there wasn't much in it but I guess it depends on when and where you go.

I would have no hesitation booking the villa through virgin again but I've just become a bit more confident about doing things slightly more independently!!

Hope this helps.

 

[Daniel&family]

Originally posted by marv
ooops! It seems i may have caused a bit of a debate here and ime even more confused now.

Marv

Dear Marv

I can't see how you're confused, it seems quite clear to me that I was right.

In all seriousness though, my opinion is that it is worth considering booking your villa direct with seperate flights and car hire or a fly-drive. I did this for our first trip and have no regrets, it does need plenty of research but I'm sure you will receive plenty of advice on these boards (and I promise to try not to argue ).

Your original post was however about Virgin villas and whilst I obviously have not stayed in a Virgin allocated villa, I believe with some holiday companies you can request a particular location. This request whilst not guaranteed could increase your chances of getting one of their better located villas (Virgin villas are up to 30mins away -booking direct you can guarantee to be only 10mins away-). I don't know if Virgin accept these requests but it must be worth a phone call. My personal recommendation for villa location would be in the Splendid China area just off the 192 (on the map on p.57 of the Virgin broucher it is just below Animal Kingdom).

I hope this advice is of some use and may atone a little for my part in turning your thread into a debate.


All the best

DANIEL