Virgin Holidays - NOT HAPPY!

[kevin harrison]

I think you've missed my point, BLUFF and tell them you want your money back, this approach nearly always works for me.

From experience, companies hate giving money back, and they'll do whatever to comeup with a solution for you.

 

[rob@rar.org.uk]

My concern is that they will call your bluff and give you a refund!

From earlier in this thread it seems that Virgin massively over-booked flights on this day, so it's likely that it will cost them a fair amount in compensation for bumped passengers. Anyone who simply asks for their money back is (a) helping to ease the over-booking situation, and (b) possibly giving up the opportunity to squeeze some compensation out of Virgin for messing up their travel arrangements. My advice is to choose your negotiating tactics carefully...

Regards

Rob

 

[floridalol]

Once again, sound advice from Rob, never paint yourself into a corner with no escape route, always ensure that you can put the ball back into their court with them having to come up with an answer.

 

[kevin harrison]

The Question is do Virgin deserve your money after this ?

 

[rob@rar.org.uk]

Probably not, but I have to say I wouldn't want to be in the position of looking for flights in August with less than three weeks to go.

Regards

Rob

 

[amf]

Whilst I am not a lawyer, it seems to me that this is covered by the Package Tour and Travel Regulations. If I'm correct then;-

Regulation 12 states that in every contract there are implied terms to the effect that:

(a) where the organiser is constrained before departure to alter significantly an essential term of the contract he will notify the consumer as quickly as possible in order to enable him to take appropriate decisions and in particular to withdraw from the contract without penalty, or to accept a rider to the contract specifying the alteration and their impact on price
(b) the consumer will inform the organiser or retailer of his decision as soon as possible.

Regulation 13 states that:

(i) the terms set out in paragraphs (a) and (b) below are implied in every contract and apply where the consumer withdraws from the contract pursuant to the term in it implied by virtue of regulation 12(a) or where the organiser, for any reason other than the fault of the consumer, cancels the package before the agreed date of departure.

(ii) The consumer is entitled to:

(a) take a substitute package of equivalent or superior quality if the other party to the contract is able to offer such a substitute; or
(b) to take a substitute package of a lower quality if the other party to the contract is able to offer him one and to recover from the organiser the difference in price between the price of the package purchased and that of the substitute package; or
(c) to have repaid to him as soon as possible all the monies paid by him under the contract.

(iii) The consumer is entitled, if appropriate, to be COMPENSATED by the organiser for the non-performance of the contract EXCEPT WHERE;

(a) the package is cancelled because the number of persons who agreed to take it less than the minimum number required and the consumer is informed of the cancellation, in writing, within the period indicated in the description of the package; or
(b) the package is cancelled by reason of unusual or unforeseeable circumstances beyond the control of the party by whom this exception is pleaded, the consequences of which could not have been avoided even if all due care had been exercised.

(iv) overbooking shall not be regarded as a circumstance falling within the provisions of sub-paragraph (b) of paragraph (iii) above.

If I'm right your target is the TO, not Virgin and I would not accept any buck passing on their part. I agree with Rob and certainly wouldn't ask for a refund....that's what they may well be hoping for.

Good luck.

 

[vernon]

Thanks Amf for all that info, as a side note I think you'll find the TO IS Virgin, I believe the OP booked this through Virgin holidays.

 

[Rick Walmsley]

Hi all

Progress to date-Don't laugh too much.

For you info my original booking was made with Virgin travel store.

I attach a segment of the E-mail I sent them which should explain why I am particularly unhappy as to my predicament-
____________________________________________________

"I received a booking confirmation form dated 19th May 2002 soon afterwards. So far no problems.

As you well know it is possible to prebook seats 180 days from departure. So around 180 days out I contacted Virgin Atlantic in order to do so. SORRY they say your details are not coming up on our computer so we can't reserve any seats for you. Enquiries are then made by Virgin Atlantic with Travelstore and I am informed that there is a problem with both the computer systems and they won't "talk" to each other. But I do have a booking I say. Yes the reply, its just a problem with the computers, try again in a couple of weeks. Couple of weeks later same query___ same reply computers still not talking to each other. And so it goes on and on and on. In April I request that a note be made on my booking about the problem with booking seats and this is done. Again I am reassured there is no problem with my booking I'm definitely confirmed as flying flight VS075 on 1st August 2003. And so,for the last 5 MONTHS , at an interval of 2-3 weeks ,I have been continually reassured that my booking is safe and that they are still having computer problems.

Guess what with a month to go to departure you forward me a letter from Virgin Atlantic stating they need to rearrange my booking.

I now apparently need to leave Manchester at 1000 1/8/03 arrive Newark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1230 have a nice 4 hour wait at Newark before boarding another plane to arrive MCO 1903.

____________________________________________________

So they really expect me to believe that my change in travel arrangements has "just cropped up"

So I got on the phone to the travel store this afternoon. After speaking to about 5 people in various departments their final offering was

"Tough, it's not a "major change" in your booking you'll have to take it or leave it"(or words to that effect)

I mean I couldn't believe it . Are these people for real? How on earth do they manage to survive as a viable busines if this is their level of customer care.

Undeterrred I managed to get the number for Virgin Holidays out of them and gave them a ring.

After waiting for about 20 minutes in a queue some nice lady spoke to me. Opening gambit after checking my file was" YOU WILL GET A LETTER WITHIN 28 DAYS WITH AN EXPLANATION TO YOUR E-MAIL"


Sorry not good enough says I, I'm not putting the phone down til I can speak to someone who can give me a proper answer.

After much time on hold I am informed that someone from the "customer care department" would ring me back.

To their credit they did(one via phone one via E-mail)

I attach an extract of their offer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand this is not a suitable option so I have researched into an alternative.

09th August depart Manchester at 0645 to arrive Gatwick 0745, leave Gatwick 1115 to arrive Orlando 1525.

06th September depart Orlando at 2110 to arrive at Gatwick the following morning at 1015. Leave Gatwick at 1730 to arrive Manchester 1835.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I CAN OF COURSE JUST HAVE MY MONEY BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
____________________________________________________

Please tell me this is just a nightmare and I will wake up in a minute!

I'm almost speeechless.

Small light at the end of the tunnel is that virgin are still showing availability on a flight on 31st July which is direct to MCO I have made a request to see if thay can get me on this flight the answer to which I should have tomorrow.

Is it me or is there something wrong in the fact that I've paid nearly £2500 for a fly drive and amthen spending all my time (and money) trying to correct their mistakes.

Sorry for the long winded reply

Rick

 

[AlisonB]

Rick - this just doesn't bear thinking about!!

Hope you can get on the 31st July flight...

 

[vernon]

Rick, do make a note of the amount of time and number of phone calls you've had to make and tell them you expect to be reimbursed for the time and effort.

It sounds like you're going to have to do their job for them and tell them what is a workable solution to you (like if their are seats available on the other days direct Manchester-Orlando). Also make a pointed comment with each person you speak to so they are aware you are taking down their name, the date and time of the call ( I've found asking for the correct spelling gets the message across LOL).

Even if you get a workable solution, I would make use of the notes and on your return write to Virgin customer care detailing (full timeline and names if possible) all the emails and phone calls you have made. If you do go a day early I would enclose a copy of the hotel bill for that extra night and any car hire extra cost. Outline on a separate sheet ALL the extra costs incurred ( I'd also say you had to take a days unpaid as you were out of holiday). I also wouldn't be shy to mention the stress and aggravation that this has caused and how traumatic it has made the build up to the holiday. I would stress that at a time where you should be excited about what is a hugely expensive "once in a lifetime" experience you have been unable to enjoy the expectation of a wonderful time.

For many people a trip to Florida is exactly that, a once in a lifetime experience and people save for years to be able to treat their children to such an experience, IMHO the people working for the holiday companies shouldn't ignore that fact and they have a moral obligation to make sure problems like this are handled proptly, efficiently but most importantly with care and undestanding of quite HOW MUCH people sacrifice to make these trips.

As you can tell I'd LAY IT ON BIG TIME in a situation like this. Not (suprisingly to some of you maybe ) to get a lot of compensation, although I think Rick is due some type of tangable "sorry" , but because I feel sometimes people who work in the industry forget how much something like this can mean to some people. For the TA it's their job and something they deal with on a daily basis, to some people it represents 2 or 3 years working and saving. To dismiss that effort is neither fair nor correct. ( OK soapbox has been placed back in the shed until next needed )

 

[matty624]

Blimey... Virgin travel Store have been very good with us. Although it did worry me somewhat that only a week after they sold me United tickets for this August (after reasurring me that I had nothing to worry about), they were telling me that they were no longer selling UA tickets because of their problems!
I almost booked 1st August from Manchester myself, but saved almost £700 by going via Washington with UA. It would really p*** me off if after paying a premium for going direct, they then said, oops, sorry, no can do, but you can go via x,y or z!!!
Hope you get sorted,
Ian

 

[SidB]

Originally posted by vernon
Even if you get a workable solution, I would make use of the notes and on your return write to Virgin customer care detailing (full timeline and names if possible) all the emails and phone calls you have made.

Personally, I'd write the letter before I go, and send a copy to Richard Branson. You'll probably get a bog-standard reply, but you never know.

 

[DisneyBB]

We found out about our flight cancellation when we tried to book our seats. They wanted us to fly from Heathrow to Miami, then Orlando to Gatwick !!! With two children. We were due to fly out on the 28th Oct. I found out by talking to VA direct that they had a lot of seats on the 26th. VH said that there was no availability on any other flights. I asked them to put a request to VA to release more seats for the 26th and said that I had spoken to them. Well within a couple of hours we were put on the 26th 11:15 am flight. I asked to talk to the supervisor/manager as the people on the phone don't seem to want to do anything.

They will try to get rid of their own flights first, but VA said that they can request more at any time. Are you flexible on your travel dates ?

 

[vernon]

Personally, I'd write the letter before I go, and send a copy to Richard Branson. You'll probably get a bog-standard reply, but you never know

Nothing wrong with the idea of sending Branson a copy ( it won't get to him but CCing the original so Virgin Holidays know it's going elsewhere won't harm the cause). The reason for sending it AFTER the holiday not before is that you won't have the receipts and complete costings of the extra expense.

 

[floridalol]

Hi Rick

This is terrible - We've have never had a problem with Virgin although we do book direct and we go out of season so maybe that is why something like this has not happened before.

I notice you said that yours is a fly-drive holiday - do you think the reason you have been bumped is that they have given priority to people who have also booked hotels? It would be interesting to know whether later bookers with hotels are still on your original flight.

Best wishes

FloridaLol

 

[Rick Walmsley]

Hi all,

The availability for 31st July was fine for the outbound flight but there was no corresponding inbound flight. So I couldn't have it.

I have spent yesterday and this morning on the phone to a very nice lady at Virgin holidays trying to find a viable alternative.

Despite her efforts it is clear that this matter has been left that late that there is really no viable alternative.

Bottom line is-

Accept the amended flight arrangements or have your money back! ( as if there is anything available at this late stage)

They did offer to try and pre book some seats for me on the amended flight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(lol)


I am still awaiting an explanation for the deplorable situation I am in.


I cannot put into words the distress that this has caused me and in turn my familly.

I thank you all for your support and hope that none of you end up in the position I am in.

I have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours ( which i know some people may find sad!) planning this trip and I always knew that things could go wrong ie aircraft going "tech" at the last minute.

There is nothing you can do about this, and you would have to accept it. I mean I can live with that (even though i wouldn't be happy)

The situation I am in was clearly preventable.

I am annoyed/disgusted and completely !£&&**%^^off at the way I have been treated.

I will not let the matter drop.

Rick

 

[rob@rar.org.uk]

Rick, I also think your treatment by Virgin has been deplorable. It sounds like you have few alternatives available to you, so my approach now would be to negotiate the best compensation you can get. I would not be happy unless I was offered something of the order of a free flight with Virgin to Orlando or similar.

Although I'm sure that it is difficult at the moment, please try to remember that once you and your family get to Orlando you will have a wonderful time. I hope that as soon as you land you get forget all this unnecessary hassle, and concentrate on having a great time.

Regards

Rob

 

[PoohBears#1fan]

Hi Rick,

I've been following your thread and think the treatment you've recieved has been beyond appaling. I really do hope you get satisfactory compensation for all this hassle.

Remember though, you WiLL have a wonderful holiday, don't let them spoil it for you.

 

[WDWfan uk]

Rick, I had hoped that you would get a much better solution to this situation - I do think that letters with CCs are the only way to go. I would also cite the many cases where people have been offered compensation to take an indirect flight.

This last lady you spoke to at least sounded courteous, and I'm wondering if you could call her again and ask her if Virgin cannot give you a direct flight is there another airline that can? The Virgin Travel Store deals with other airlines too - we used them for a flight with BA... what about an upgrade??

I just hope that you have such a wonderful time when you are out there you can put this fiasco to one side and just have a ball.

 

[trashcanman]

Hi Rick

I've been following the thread and cannot believe that this can happen - you have my greatest sympathy.

I wonder where you stand legally? When you made a booking there is surely a contract in force between you and the agent and if they fail to provide you with the service they are contracted to (ie direct flight) then they are in breach. The booking form presumably has terms and conditions attached and I wonder whether they have a disclaimer built in to this which they can then hide behind....

If this was me I'd be taking some advice......any legal eagles out there?

Anyway I sincerely hope you can sort something out.