Virgin Atlantic Cutbacks....

[Frances999]

I would maintain that you cannot compare Virgin with First choice.
They do not provide the same services. Where is FCA's Upper Class for example?
Where is their daily service to Orlando?

Sure compare Virgin with BA, American, Continental, etc but still FCA Charter is still only an economy service only.

You can compare them on an economy-level (and even a PE level - their "premium" cabin includes a 4-course meal, 9" screen, 38" pitch, leather seats, "luxury pamper pack"....), which is obviously how the majority of people fly. They have newer planes, nicer seats, nicer cabins, supposedly better food and service......and if you're flexible with dates, then you don't care about a daily service.

 

[wideeyes]

As for the KiD packs, whilst if you are veteran flyers it could be seen as a waste, for those children every year going on their first Virgin flight its a great piece of advertising.
Great for the holiday and great to show off at school with

primary schools have their own book bags now mostly,
I see it as a waste as my DD didn't even look in the bag on our last flight, we didn't take it off the flight though so they could of reissued it though don't know if they would though.

I am flying PE this year and would not consider another airline at the moment as I want to fly to MCO, I guess this means VA could charge more and still get my money though as they have no other competion from Manchester however as I have already said I feel like I have got a great price with VA this year and I am really looking forward to my flight.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Well, lets compare First choice with Virgin Economy

Schedule
Virgin daily year round
FCA On certain days only

Meals
Virgin in the price
FCA In the price Long haul only, all others pay

Drinks
Virgin in the price
FCA Pay on board

Luggage allowance
Virgin 2 X 23Kg
FCa 1 X 20KG

Hand luggage
Virgin 6KG
FCA 5KG

Seat pitch
Virgin 31inch, 34inch at extra cost
FCA 33inch

Ameinity kit
Virgin yes
FCA Unsure

back pack for kids
Virgin Yes
FCA no?

On Line Checkin?
Virgin Yes plus twilight checkin at gatwick
FCA No but day before checkin at airport

Downtown disney Checkin or similar?
Virgin Yes
FCA No

Similar differences in Premium Economy/Premium class
Virgin seat pitch 38inc
FCA 36inch

Dedicated checkin (UK)
Virgin yes
FCA yes

Checkin orlando?
Virgin On line or DTD or airport
FCa airport

Drinks
Virgin yes
FCA yes

Ameinity pack
Virgin yes
FCA yes

Luggage Allowance
Virgin 2 x 32KG
FCA 1X23KG

Upperclass/Buisness class
No FCA Buisness class

 

[fairytale]

Well I've just priced up for October next year with First Choice Premium and the cost is an amazing £1000.00 more than Virgin PE.

Plus thats flying into Sanford not MCO.

I think I'll stick with Virgin for now and take a pack up things are that bad

 

[ClareH37]

I must admit we flew once again with Virgin last month , PE both ways and the service was excellent.
Can't ever remember having a cabin crew who were as friendly and hepful, constantly smiling throughout the journey(s).

Phew, glad we're not the only ones who had great flights too.

This was only last week (and the week before), my parents were in PE and I was in UC - we all felt the flights were fantastic, the crew amazing (professional but very friendly), cabins cleanest we'd seen them in ages and everything from checking-in to the actual flight were the best we'd had in years.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

You can compare them on an economy-level (and even a PE level - their "premium" cabin includes a 4-course meal, 9" screen, 38" pitch, leather seats, "luxury pamper pack"....), which is obviously how the majority of people fly. They have newer planes, nicer seats, nicer cabins, supposedly better food and service......and if you're flexible with dates, then you don't care about a daily service.

Sorry francis,
36" seat pich, less than Virgin (thats from FCA own web site)
Leather seats are on Virgins PE services from Heathrow (many take these PE seats to Miami) though I would personally say leather is not nice to sit on for eight hours.
Newer planes does not mean better aircraft, I would contend that their cabins are not "nicer" than Virgins PE cabins, Certainly the upper deck has no comparison from first choice, Nicer seats how? Better food? really? based upon what? as there are only tow suppliers of airline food in the UK so both airlines use the same services.
many people who are flexible on dates don't want a package holiday of 14 days take it or leave it, they want more and of their choosing, hence Virgin carries more people year round than First choice.

I am sure that for many First choice suits their needs, If they are happy with small luggage allowance, economy setas, having set dates only they can fly, flying into a regional airport (Sanford) and don't want to fly outside certain dates.
But for such a price you would expect Virgin to be much more expensive as they provide a year round daily service to more destinations, which suits the more "adventerous" shall I say, traveller

though we should call first choice by their proper name now, Thomson Airways.

 

[jopaly]

Sorry francis,
36" seat pich, less than Virgin (thats from FCA own web site)
Leather seats are on Virgins PE services from Heathrow (many take these PE seats to Miami) though I would personally say leather is not nice to sit on for eight hours.
Newer planes does not mean better aircraft, I would contend that their cabins are not "nicer" than Virgins PE cabins, Certainly the upper deck has no comparison from first choice, Nicer seats how? Better food? really? based upon what? as there are only tow suppliers of airline food in the UK so both airlines use the same services.
many people who are flexible on dates don't want a package holiday of 14 days take it or leave it, they want more and of their choosing, hence Virgin carries more people year round than First choice.

I am sure that for many First choice suits their needs, If they are happy with small luggage allowance, economy setas, having set dates only they can fly, flying into a regional airport (Sanford) and don't want to fly outside certain dates.
But for such a price you would expect Virgin to be much more expensive as they provide a year round daily service to more destinations, which suits the more "adventerous" shall I say, traveller

though we should call first choice by their proper name now, Thomson Airways.

I'm with you on this Obi....we're (me, DW, DD(12) and DS(10) are flying on VS015 on Monday and are all looking forward to it. Sure we're going Ecomony, but hey, we got a great price and will have more $ to spend when we get there.

BTW, I know that you are the expert with regard to how packed the flight will be, how are we fixed? Is the flight going to be chocka? We have pre-selected our seats in rows 59 and 60 (I think) should I be looking for something better when on-line check in opens?

TIA...

 

[wideeyes]

Better food? really? based upon what? as there are only tow suppliers of airline food in the UK so both airlines use the same services.

ew, a company makes them near my home and stinks horrible everytime I walk past. That is enough to put you off airline food.

 

[Frances999]

Sorry francis,
36" seat pich, less than Virgin (thats from FCA own web site)
Leather seats are on Virgins PE services from Heathrow (many take these PE seats to Miami) though I would personally say leather is not nice to sit on for eight hours.
Newer planes does not mean better aircraft, I would contend that their cabins are not "nicer" than Virgins PE cabins, Certainly the upper deck has no comparison from first choice, Nicer seats how? Better food? really? based upon what? as there are only tow suppliers of airline food in the UK so both airlines use the same services.
many people who are flexible on dates don't want a package holiday of 14 days take it or leave it, they want more and of their choosing, hence Virgin carries more people year round than First choice.

I am sure that for many First choice suits their needs, If they are happy with small luggage allowance, economy setas, having set dates only they can fly, flying into a regional airport (Sanford) and don't want to fly outside certain dates.
But for such a price you would expect Virgin to be much more expensive as they provide a year round daily service to more destinations, which suits the more "adventerous" shall I say, traveller

though we should call first choice by their proper name now, Thomson Airways.

Obi, I'm not sure why you are being so defensive. I'm not saying that First Choice is "better" than Virgin (I couldn't, anyway, having never flown with them). I'm just saying that little cutbacks such as these are likely to make the average traveller think again when assuming Virgin offer the very best flight services to Orlando. I have seen some very impressive photographs of the first choice economy cabin, along with its "mood lighting", and the food also looks better presented than the Virgin economy equivalent. The cabins just seem fresher - I for one really dislike travelling PE on the LGW routes now, since I have found - on numerous occasions - the seats old and worn (even on the upper deck). The IFE is also very unreliable and seriously dated. Perhaps I'm biased because we usually fly the SFO-LHR route, but there is a HUGE difference in the service quality. I find the cabin crew are much more professional and attentive, the PE seats and cabin are considerably nicer, and the IFE is much better too. I'm not sure why, but the Airbus planes just have a much better feel from my experience.

As red-snapper said, Virgin made a name for themselves for offering to "go the extra mile" with the "little extras" -- and many of these are being scaled back meaning there is really little differentiations any more.

Obviously First Choice has limitations - travel dates and small luggage allowance, for example, but benefits such as travelling from regional airports may appeal to some travellers.

We should be happy that there are other alternatives to Virgin, after all, the more competition the better. At least - as you say - there's something for everyone

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

True francis, very true.
Virgin were to refurbish their youngest 747s i.e. the gatwick planes this year bringing in the same seats as the heathrow planes, but economics have made that impossible. I think with the introductions of teh A380 in a couple of years, this may now not happen.

 

[UKDEB]

Pre-tax losses of £401M for British Airways announced this morning. Losses in the industry don't bode well for anyone.

 

[kevin harrison]

I have flown Virgin and First Choice, PE and economy on both.

First Choices cabin was cleaner, but that was because it was newer. Their PE version was very impressive when we flew last summer. The food was far better than Virgins and there was more space in economy. This was impressive as the plane was far smaller than Virgin's. The big negative was the luggage allowance and the fact that they flew into Stanford and it was a pain having to fit our dates into when they fly out. A big plus also with First Choice was the complementary lounge at Sanford on departure, free drink, internet access and a very quiet atmosphere.

Virgin has big advantages also, the fact that they fly into MCO, the far bigger luggage allowance and a far more flexible schedule. The crew have always been very good also. This time because of my sons autism and eating issues, we need more space on the plane and they couldn't have been more helpful to us.

In the end it comes down to one thin, cost - I live 15 mins from East Midlands airport and could easily get a FC flight, but instead am travelling down to Gatwick. With my air-miles I am getting four economy seats into MCO for £1000. Kids backpack or no backpack, It is a very good deal for us, FC couldn't get close to that offer.

 

[Neoshoegal]

With regards, to the cut backs, they aren't exactly that big of life changing. They seem like reasonable ones. Especially the pretzels and virgin vie towel. I have a collection of those towels lying about and the pretzels aren't exactly that appetising. Cheese and biscuits going: are you really that upset about missing out on 2 small pieces of plasticy cheese and some biscuits?

So far we've always flown with a main carrier to the US. We normally fly PE. We looked into flying with First Choice before, as it would have been considerably cheaper. However, First Choice will not guarantee that couples with sit together. I'm a very nervous flyer, I really need to have my husband next to me and I really need a window to look out of. A simple phone call to the Virgin special needs line and a note is made about this and from experience with them for a number of years now, I know they will do anything to help me keep calm (I guess it's in everybody's best interest anyway). As a result, I've become a lot more relaxed when I know I'm gonna flywith them. We called First Choice, asking if they can offer a similar guarantee, getting a window and not being split up. Their answer: we try to keep families and couples together, but we cannot guarantee this. They do not have a special needs department or anything put in place to facilitate this. Getting this extra level of service from Virgin (and other main carriers), is to me worth a lot.

So I will continue to fly with Virgin (or BA, as they had such a good deal on business class flights the other week which made them the same price as Virgin's PE). I don't care about the things they've just axed (although the water bottle was nice when landing to help with the ear ache at times).

 

[Pegasus928]

I don't care about the things they've just axed (although the water bottle was nice when landing to help with the ear ache at times).

Ok I have to ask - what exactly do you do with a water bottle that helps with earache

 

[Neoshoegal]

Ok I have to ask - what exactly do you do with a water bottle that helps with earache

when your ears start aching due to pressure difference, one of the tricks is to swallow. Having a bottle of water, or any drink, with you (as they take drinks glasses away) is just easier and faster. Especially when you have a bit of a cold or something, as it makes equalising your ears harder.

 

[Red-Snapper]

The point isnt really that us regular VA flyers are comparing them to FCA - of course were arent - there are too many differences but and its a big but - many people are now doing just that.

The two products are now not that different - VA have fallen behind where they were in their heyday. I have supported VA on here for years but can sympathise with some of the adverse comments now.

I fully understand times are hard etc but - they need to get the balance right - which I dont think they are doing at the moment.

Its the same with VH - booked religiously with them every year and couldnt fault em - now I wouldnt touch them. Exactly the same pattern I see VA falling inot - large scale cost cutting that is driven from a pure financial angle with no mamagement consideration for the quality of the product.

This also leads to disgruntled staff who end up not caring about the company they work for or its customers.

Delays now for example just seem to be just accepted by the staff who dont even hurry when boarding is finally announced.

After a 4 hour delay last year we got on the plane only to be told of another delay - the pilot said "hang on while I think of another excuse".....meanwhile the FA's stood around talking.

I still fly with them because of the 2 flights a day and the PE product but I seriously wonder for how much longer.

 

[dolphingirl47]

Pre-tax losses of £401M for British Airways announced this morning. Losses in the industry don't bode well for anyone.

Working for an airline as well, all these profit and loss statements make me very nervous. Ours came out yesterday and we made a net profit of US$268 million for the airline and about twice that for the group.

http://www.ekgroup.com/Annualreports/2008-2009/

We did better then I dared to hope, but it is still scary stuff.

Corinna

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

BTW, I know that you are the expert with regard to how packed the flight will be, how are we fixed? Is the flight going to be chocka? We have pre-selected our seats in rows 59 and 60 (I think) should I be looking for something better when on-line check in opens?

TIA...

25th May?
VS15 only nine seats free in economy 60H is still free.
4 seats in PE
5 seats in UC
.

 

[jopaly]

25th May?
VS15 only nine seats free in economy 60H is still free.
4 seats in PE
5 seats in UC
.

Thanks Obi.

 

[DISWolves]

With the quality of the meals I usually end up only eating the cheese and biscuits!

Looks like you may be going hungry for 8 hours!!!

With the cutbacks considered, I still think that for direct flights, Virgin provide a resonable service.
If they were out of the equation, do you think BA would re-align their prices and baggage allowance having got rid of a main like for like competitor?