Virgin Atlantic Cutbacks....

[Red-Snapper]

Interestingly no sign of Virgin-like service cuts on BA WT or WT+

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Interestingly no sign of Virgin-like service cuts on BA WT or WT+

well, apart from the planes mothballed and routes cut;
Project Columbus:
These are the main points of BA's cost cutting proposals;_

"Proposals for a New Fleet at LHR: Not for current crew unless joining the fleet
A low-cost fleet based on a low cost model
BA aims to achieve this in the next 2 years. Approaching 1000 crew have already been trained and placed in a holding pool.
It will have over 2000 plus crew operating within two years (out of a total crew manefest of 13,000, see how much bigger they are to Virgin!)

Market rate paid Cabin Crew in line with virgin plus 10%

Fleet will consist of mixed flying on Airbus, 777, 747 aircraft.

Crew will consist of 3 new grades, Main Crew, Supervisor and Lead Supervisor. Not CSD, Purser and main crew and NOT to current levels.

No ETP, long-range, back-to-back or destination Payments or other variable shorthaul payments etc.

A fixed hourly rate.

Pay scales will have no time served increments, any increase in basic pay will be performance related.

Merit promotion.

No Seniority.

Crew will not operate to either Worldwide or Shorthaul agreements but to BA Scheme Limitations document only - For your information this is covered in your Blue Joint Operations procedures manual part 2, pages 78 to 107 inclusive. A link to show scheme details is also available via the BASSA website under agreements.
There will be no MBT etc just scheme days off.

Preference bidding to scheme.

BA project in year one 850 crew to be flying on this new fleet and 2075 by end of year two (remember EF has only 2314 crew and LGW single fleet, 1189.
Long-term this will lead to the total restructuring of cabin crew costs.

Proposed changes to existing crews terms and conditions ("restrictive practices") from this list:
1) Remove double night on LAX, SFO, PHX, MEX.
2) Reduce 777 crew compliment by 1 on long-range 4 class.
3) MBT to be a maximum of 4 local nights irrespective trip.
4) Reduce annual leave for all crew to 34 days from 36.
5) Completely flexible rosters, no fixed trips.
6) One main crew member removed from 777- 3 class.
7) Annual increment freeze for one year for all crew.
8 ) Remove one main crew from worldwide destinations that at present receive the extra crew member as agreed post September 11th 2001. For the summer they are CCU- DAC- DEN -CPT (042) MAA- MEX- MIA- MRU- PEK
9) Remove the early report day allowing report times prior to 0800.
10) Bidding only on EF, ending the 6-3 and 5-2 and job share work patterns.
11) Removal of 767 CSD on EF.
12) All Crew grades to be planned/rostered to work up or down with no extra payment or restriction.
13) Remove one main crew member from 777 long-range top up.
14) Extension on Eurofleet working day from 12.30 hours to 15.00.
15) Allow earlier report/start and later debrief/finish times.
16) Replace all 24hr stand-by with 12 hour.
17) One purser to be removed from all 747 and 777.
18 ) Remove EF Club top-up crewing level agreement.
19) No meal allowances to be triggered whilst in flight.
20) Reduction of Box-One payments by 50%
21) Back-To-Back payments to be reduced by 50%.
22) All destination payments to be permanently removed. For summer these will be paid on MIA- LAD -DEN -DAR -SEA YVR- EBB- IAH- DFW -YYC
23) Pay actual ETP rather than planned.
24) Remove STR payments and introduce fixed links also with no payment - EF.
25) Replace QRS with airport standby.
26) Reduce report and debrief times i.e., shorten duty day timings.
27) Removal of telephone allowance.
28 ) Change definition of EF night duty.
29) Exchange 2 pursers from all 767, 747, 777 to junior crew positions
30) No CSD on 757 EF.
31) Switch one purser at LGW for main crew member.
These are in addition to a two-year pay freeze. "

So unhappy crew, less crew on board, sounds familiar?
I imagine that you will see service cuts due to this reorganisation on board.

Oh, and just another little snippet. Virgin are making cabin crew redundant, but Thomson Airways are taking them on a three month contract for the summer. Thomson airways is better known as First choice and Thomsonfly.

 

[Pegasus928]

Obi Wan - Are you Richard Branson in disguise??

 

[fairytale]

Obi Wan - Are you Richard Branson in disguise??

Pegasus I was just thinking the same thing

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Pegasus I was just thinking the same thing

No, I'm Willy Walsh!

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Reports now that the Club Kitchen food choices have been cutback on routes, so yes, the austarity cutbacks have started on BA also.
Plus new aircraft being delivered without a First class cabin!

We as passengers have to decide if we are prepared to pay the price for flights including all the frills we are used to on any airline, or fall into the "cheap as chips" mentality which has made Ryanscare and sleazyjet massive profits on long hall routes.

Airbus does seem to be the right name for future flights, busses :-(

 

[ScottishDisMam]

BA lost us last year when they cut the Aberdeen to Gatwick route altogether, and didnt even let us know at first - we found out through these forums.They werent really that bothered and I know a LOT of families that were left with having to get from Heathrow to Gatwick, and having to go down the night before, and having to pay their own accomodation and transfers even though it was BA who changed the bookings.

Lisa

 

[Laurafoster]

We flew back yesterday with Virgin and have no complaints.
We flew out on May 1st - slightly delayed but this was because of 2 late passengers (who looked suitably embarassed when the got a round of applause when they finally arrived) Until i just read it on here i didnt even notice that there was no pretzels with the first drinks service! The meal was actually pretty tasty to me. Yes there are no cheese and crackers but there was plenty of food so not really an issue for me. You do only get the little cuplet of water instead of a bottle but if you ask the cabin crew they will bring you as much water as you want so i dont see this as an issue.
Flew back Friday Night -by the time we took off we were 3 hours delayed. However this was because of the storms in the area - Orlando airport closed for several hours so the incoming plane rerouted to Jacksonville before flying back to Orlando when it reopened so not Virgins fault. No problems on the flight back, meal was fine, the breakfast was actually quite nice. The staff were very friendly and polite but to be honest i have never had a problem with them. So all in all i was very happy with my flight and wont hesitate to book Virgin again.

I paid less that £350 for my flight where as at the time of booking BA were £50 a person more expensive (So £300 for our party).

 

[Steve and Sarah]

We have just arrived back yesterday.

When we flew out (LHR to LAX) there was a first drinks service (but no prexels) and an ice cream later. There was however no sign of the Cheese and Crackers with the meal.

However on the way back (MIA to LHR) on Friday evening there was no first drinks service at all - but cheese and crackers with the meal.

Food was C£$p both ways though - whatever happenned to the (always edible) vegetable curry...?

Steve

 

[DISWolves]

Interestingly no sign of Virgin-like service cuts on BA WT or WT+

Article in todays Mail on Sunday............BA target ground staff & crew.
This is an attempt to cut this years costs by a further £200 million. They have a £401 million loss to March compared to profits of almost £1 billion the previous year. They mention of mothballing 16 aircraft and defer new orders including one for £1.5 billion. It also states that Virgin Atlantic announced
an increase in profits on last years £34 million.

 

[Red-Snapper]

I said "service" cuts - not "staff" - BA have improved their in-flight service recently and continue to roll out improved IFA in their fleet - i.e the sort of stuff Virgin made its name on.

& before Obi gets all defensive - I still fly Virgin - just qualified for FC Silver (for all the good that does)

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

No, not defensive RS, just want a level playing field
Certainly the removal of the Club Kitchen items is a service cut, the release of aircraft without a first class cabin is a service cut, the removal of cabin crew is a service cut.

Don't get me wrong, Virgin are doing some stupid things, but they are significantly smaller than BA and any costs cutting can only come from staff cuts (as has happened) or service cuts. They don't have the excess fat that BA has.

 

[mikki.young]

Thanks to the flying club I can usually afford PE on Virgin and enjoy the upper cabin. I flew WTP on BA to Bermuda in March and the way out was great, good staff etc but the way back was awful. And don't get me started on their computer systems - I just hope the ones on the plane are more reliable!

Summary - it's luck of the draw. On all airlines I have flown (BA and VA most) cabin crew vary a lot each flight. Food sometimes nice sometimes inedible. Entertainment stuff sometimes works and sometimes not. One night flight on BA with no entertainment or lights because of power problems was not pleasant!

Personal thing - I find the seats in BA WTP easier to sleep in than the VA PE.

No point bashing any airline. It's tough out there and we should be thankful we still have several options of who to use.

 

[wideeyes]

No point bashing any airline. It's tough out there and we should be thankful we still have several options of who to use.

agree, and I can't really see how anyone is truly bothered about the pretzels and cheese and crackers anyway,

 

[Howellsy]

I agree that these cutbacks don't seem so drastic. And after experiencing the worst flights and customer service from Monarch ever last year, Virgin is looking fantastic!

Last year we had a 26 hour delay, a stopover that wasn't originally scheduled (adding 4 hours onto an already late flight), no food because they couldn't get in to the hold when we stopped in Gander and a smaller plane with no PE class. And on top of it all, we were NOT informed about any of this until half an hour before it happened. Monarch win my award for worst airline.

 

[Beth__WDW23/6/02]

agree, and I can't really see how anyone is truly bothered about the pretzels and cheese and crackers anyway,

I was thinking the same..

 

[scarletlancer]

I was thinking the same..

I think you are rather missing the point. The Pretzels etc, are the tip of the iceberg and are representative of a continued retraction of benefits. This is brought into sharp focus by the news that VA have all but doubled profits in the past year.

 

[Mrs Dazzle]

I think I'm going to be going against the flow of the general opinions on this thread.

Given the news this morning that VA have just announced they have doubled their profits the last year, I think making cutbacks is not altogether justifiable.

Heck - we're all having to make cutbacks of one sort or another with the financial situation we're in, I'm still looking for a good service, with a difference. VA have always marketed themselves as being an innovative airline offering something above the usual - but this makes it not so.

I'm not entering the debate about First Choice, days of the week you can fly because this does not affect my family. I'd love to be able to get cheap flights, but working in a school means this does not happen since my family can only holiday in school holiday times as top whack prices

We have travelled PE (and lucky enough to have flown UC once), but the last few years we've not bothered - for two reasons, firstly the last couple of flights PE to Orlando were not worth the extra money we paid and secondly because we were holidaying with friends so for a group of 8 (rather than just the three of us) made it price prohibitive for our friends.

We've not travelled the Gatwick to Orlando route for a number of years now because we prefer to fly out of Heathrow and this VA route has always given us better aircraft (recent years flights have been to San Fransisco, Boston, New York and Miami - all out of Heathrow).

This Easter my DD and I flew to New York and, courtesy of VA Flying Club miles, flew PE. I was so pleased to see the difference between our last experience of PE and this one; it was SO much better - you really did feel like you were getting a better experience, and treated accordingly by the cabin crew who were one of the friendlist we've had on a VA flight in years!

When we got back, I said to my DH that when we go back to Lake Tahoe next year we need to start saving now because travelling PE to New York was such a good experience, we wanted to do it again to San Fransisco (our 50th birthdays pressie to ourselves!).

It sounds to me like PE is travelling back in time and the differences between PE and economy aren't going to be so great. It's not all about the slightly better legroom, or the smaller cabin - it's the WHOLE experience.

Needless to say, for the first time in over 40 flights, we will be actively looking elsewhere than VA for our San Fran flights.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I think you do need to read the whole statement about the profits made and how they were made and the forecast for this year before going off at Virgin for making a profit.
Don't forget for example. last year still as many people flying to florida for example, but oless flights available, merging of companies, the TCD and others debacles and the fact that Virgin at that time cancelled updates to aircraft, new aircraft and fuel hedging.
Evene with this and a n increase in profits for that period, the future looks bleak for all airlines. see the comments about Thomas Cook!