VIP Tour: LGBTQ2 (or Friendly) Tour Guide?

[Karin1984]

I guess my hang up was from my personal discomfort of my workplace knowing my sexual orientation. I'm not super close to anyone at my job so I would prefer to keep my life separate. Truthfully I did not know that it was a common occurrence for people to request specific guides or LGBT guides for Disney VIP tours (or other tours of the same caliber) before reading this thread. If it works, that's great. I just hope it could be able to work without it getting into a legal issue.

I don't think it's a common occurrence, but I do think it happens. I think there will be plenty of LGTBQ+ guests at Disney doing a VIP tour and either do not care or have faith that they will have an ally as a guide and not an enemy. I think what helps is knowing that the Disney company is considered an ally (recent politics left out of this discussion). Because they know Disney is supportive, guests will feel more comfortable to request a certain guide.

Let's take an example to the extreme: say you are needing a guide in a countries in certain parts of Asia, Africa or in the Middle East no one in his right mind would request a LGTBQ+ guide there. Or if it was a church where all the tours are given by clergymen. You know these countries, areas, establishments are most likely not supportive so you wouldn't.
But if a company is supportive, promotes itself to be an ally, why would you not ask for it?

 

[Jonfw2]

The comparisons to what language someone speaks or what country you’re in are not applicable here because of one thing:

In the US, sexual orientation is a protected class. The language you want someone to speak is not. It’s entirely legal for a company to say “tours in English or Spanish”. It is 100% illegal to say “tours by gay or straight people”.

In a foreign country, obviously, our laws don’t apply.

 

[Karin1984]

The comparisons to what language someone speaks or what country you’re in are not applicable here because of one thing:

In the US, sexual orientation is a protected class. The language you want someone to speak is not. It’s entirely legal for a company to say “tours in English or Spanish”. It is 100% illegal to say “tours by gay or straight people”.

In a foreign country, obviously, our laws don’t apply.

Comparison means to examine differences and similarities between two things. This doesnt mean that the two things are the same or equal. Pretend that instead of 'compare' I said 'it is kinda like'. It is not exactly the same, but there are similarities.

I was not discussing if it was legal or not.

I was trying to help describe why you could possibly want a guide from a certain orientation. It is similar (to me #opinion) to wanting a guide who speaks your language. Only it is not a literal spoken language like Spanish, but a metaphorical one. When someone says "that guy speaks my language" it can mean we speak the same literal language, but it can also mean that you are on the same wave length, you get each other.

 

[Jonfw2]

Comparison means to examine differences and similarities between two things. This doesnt mean that the two things are the same or equal. Pretend that instead of 'compare' I said 'it is kinda like'. It is not exactly the same, but there are similarities.

I was not discussing if it was legal or not.

I was trying to help describe why you could possibly want a guide from a certain orientation. It is similar (to me #opinion) to wanting a guide who speaks your language. Only it is not a literal spoken language like Spanish, but a metaphorical one. When someone says "that guy speaks my language" it can mean with speak the same literal language, but it can also mean that you are on the same wave length, you get each other.

Okay. Fair enough.

 

[tomt92]

First @Jonfw2 I agree, I don't think there was any ill intent, just a mis-understanding.. Along the lines of what @Smugpugmug said the LGTBQ2 community is 'taking back' queer; I personally hate that word.. It was used against me too many times in my life and to this day it still makes me cringe. I understand the whole concept of the community taking it back, I'm just not 100% comfortable with its use. That's just me, and what is based on my experiences.

I would like to add what we do at my job. We do workshops and tours and when we will get a request like this we ask for volunteers. Most recently we had a gender-affirming sewing workshop; participants worked on projects that represented their gender identities. Staff were told what the workshop was about and then asked who would like to volunteer to lead it or help with it. My guess is the same approach Disney would take.

Also back to what you said about this being different than a language request is true.. As others have pointed out having a known LGTBQ+ guide or ally leading your group does provide a sense of ease. I feel all of us, no matter how out we are, are guarded when we meet new people (some more than others). There are also cultural nuances that an ally my be more aware of; not trying to be little you just an example but like the use of 'preference' instead of 'orientation'. Or the proper use of a person's pronouns, even asking what a person's preferred pronouns are and telling them yours.. To some, this may seem silly but esp to the transgender community it can be very comforting and says to them, this person gets it, and will not judge me..

 

[RoseGold]

Interesting thread. Made me think if you could request a guide who is a particular race or religion. Probably, I would bet Disney would meet that request too. This is a very expensive booking, I'm sure they would try.

 

[trompettecon]

So... Should I let everyone know how this actually translated into an actual booking? Just booked this week for the September.

 

[trompettecon]

Ask for Patrick C. or Tommy K.

There’s plenty who are amazing and I always request LGBTQ+ friendly guides in different words such as, I say, I’m a west coast liberal who is open about my principles which include lgbtq equity issues and would like a guide who will comfortable with a politically vocal group. Et voilà!

Going to try that. How about, ¨I'm so far to the left Pelosi would get whiplash trying to look my way?¨

 

[pigletliz]

Interesting thread. Made me think if you could request a guide who is a particular race or religion. Probably, I would bet Disney would meet that request too. This is a very expensive booking, I'm sure they would try.

That would seem to be a terribly slippery slope... Can't think of any circumstance where this would be appropriate for an employer to do/ask in the workplace. No matter how much the person paid.

 

[CaliAdventurer]

Going to try that. How about, ¨I'm so far to the left Pelosi would get whiplash trying to look my way?¨

I mean, if I were assigning folks to guides and their email signature says, Lets go Brandon, Im going to put them with guides who can happily listen to the convos and have a great time. 7 hours of micro-aggressions leads to turn over.

 

[CaliAdventurer]

That would seem to be a terribly slippery slope... Can't think of any circumstance where this would be appropriate for an employer to do/ask in the workplace. No matter how much the person paid.

You can easily say, we are strict observers of xyz religion and will need to take prayer at such and such time and they are going to try to find a good fit. They want happy guests and employees. The guides are consummate professionals no matter who they are with but its easier for everyone if people can be genuine together when possible. Our guides are friends now and we pixie dust them when we can and in turn we get xmas cards and have an amazing time when on tours.

 

[bsmcneil]

It's not a preference. I can't believe I have to say this in this thread.

Welp, this helped me realize it was time to block someone who consistently seems to troll people and/or just be a terrible person to be around. I suspect that some of the people who are naming you shouldn't ask for someone who would be comfortable haven't been on the end of physical harm, hurtful comments, etc. I hope you found and had the best VIP tour possible.

 

[bsmcneil]

Perhaps it was the approach people took- the first response was "I can't believe I have to even say that here". Then I got called a "bro". If someone had just said "hey, just so you know, that term isn't really accepted at this point..." that would have been a better approach.

 

[bsmcneil]

Can I ask a question, why is not okay for a person to ask for a heterosexual tour guide if it is okay to ask for an LGBTQ+ tour guide? And why are they bigots but a person asking for an LGBTQ+ tour guide is not? Personally I would not care as long as the person was knowledgeable about the subject at hand. Should there be that double standard and if so, why? And this is an honest question, I am not looking to be controversial. I think we should be respectful of all.

How often have LGBTQ+ run countries advocated for the death of heterosexuals? For how long was heterosexuality against the law in the United States? How many active conversion therapy camps are there in the US to turn you away from being straight? How many times have you personally been run off the road because of a bumper sticker that referenced you being straight?

In service of the larger thread, I'll share that it was upsetting to visit WDW with a same-sex partner and be told we needed a room with two beds by the front-desk CM (even after saying no, we'd prefer a room with one). No, it wasn't a question of "this is what's available" but "are you sure you mean to say that" (and yes, thankfully, that was a long time ago and things have changed - but it also highlights that there are times when even the most well-meaning of companies can have staff that do or say something off-putting that especially stinks when you're paying them for a vacation). To me, because of my own personal experiences, the OP's question seems rooted not in "can I find someone who does or says what I want" but "can I find someone who will be safe and/or not cause me harm" and it seems like that is a reasonable request (similarly, I would imagine that parents might ask for a tour guide who is familiar with children - or people with limited mobility may ask for someone reasonably aware of the differences in how to tour the parks with mobility issues).

Meanwhile, I appreciate that the dictionary spelled out the problem with "sexual preference" a couple of years ago (@Jonfw2 - I think you seem to keep up with the news, given your friend in Ukraine, right?).

 

[Mle8308]

How often have LGBTQ+ run countries advocated for the death of heterosexuals? For how long was heterosexuality against the law in the United States? How many active conversion therapy camps are there in the US to turn you away from being straight? How many times have you personally been run off the road because of a bumper sticker that referenced you being straight?

In service of the larger thread, I'll share that it was upsetting to visit WDW with a same-sex partner and be told we needed a room with two beds by the front-desk CM (even after saying no, we'd prefer a room with one). No, it wasn't a question of "this is what's available" but "are you sure you mean to say that" (and yes, thankfully, that was a long time ago and things have changed - but it also highlights that there are times when even the most well-meaning of companies can have staff that do or say something off-putting that especially stinks when you're paying them for a vacation). To me, because of my own personal experiences, the OP's question seems rooted not in "can I find someone who does or says what I want" but "can I find someone who will be safe and/or not cause me harm" and it seems like that is a reasonable request (similarly, I would imagine that parents might ask for a tour guide who is familiar with children - or people with limited mobility may ask for someone reasonably aware of the differences in how to tour the parks with mobility issues).

Meanwhile, I appreciate that the dictionary spelled out the problem with "sexual preference" a couple of years ago (@Jonfw2 - I think you seem to keep up with the news, given your friend in Ukraine, right?).

Not what I asked.

 

[Jonfw2]

How often have LGBTQ+ run countries advocated for the death of heterosexuals? For how long was heterosexuality against the law in the United States? How many active conversion therapy camps are there in the US to turn you away from being straight? How many times have you personally been run off the road because of a bumper sticker that referenced you being straight?

In service of the larger thread, I'll share that it was upsetting to visit WDW with a same-sex partner and be told we needed a room with two beds by the front-desk CM (even after saying no, we'd prefer a room with one). No, it wasn't a question of "this is what's available" but "are you sure you mean to say that" (and yes, thankfully, that was a long time ago and things have changed - but it also highlights that there are times when even the most well-meaning of companies can have staff that do or say something off-putting that especially stinks when you're paying them for a vacation). To me, because of my own personal experiences, the OP's question seems rooted not in "can I find someone who does or says what I want" but "can I find someone who will be safe and/or not cause me harm" and it seems like that is a reasonable request (similarly, I would imagine that parents might ask for a tour guide who is familiar with children - or people with limited mobility may ask for someone reasonably aware of the differences in how to tour the parks with mobility issues).

Meanwhile, I appreciate that the dictionary spelled out the problem with "sexual preference" a couple of years ago (@Jonfw2 - I think you seem to keep up with the news, given your friend in Ukraine, right?).

Super awesome of you to bring me into this. Thanks.

 

[Jonfw2]

I didn’t derail anything. But thanks. You get to do you. That’s sweet.

 

[Jonfw2]

How often have LGBTQ+ run countries advocated for the death of heterosexuals? For how long was heterosexuality against the law in the United States? How many active conversion therapy camps are there in the US to turn you away from being straight? How many times have you personally been run off the road because of a bumper sticker that referenced you being straight?

In service of the larger thread, I'll share that it was upsetting to visit WDW with a same-sex partner and be told we needed a room with two beds by the front-desk CM (even after saying no, we'd prefer a room with one). No, it wasn't a question of "this is what's available" but "are you sure you mean to say that" (and yes, thankfully, that was a long time ago and things have changed - but it also highlights that there are times when even the most well-meaning of companies can have staff that do or say something off-putting that especially stinks when you're paying them for a vacation). To me, because of my own personal experiences, the OP's question seems rooted not in "can I find someone who does or says what I want" but "can I find someone who will be safe and/or not cause me harm" and it seems like that is a reasonable request (similarly, I would imagine that parents might ask for a tour guide who is familiar with children - or people with limited mobility may ask for someone reasonably aware of the differences in how to tour the parks with mobility issues).

Meanwhile, I appreciate that the dictionary spelled out the problem with "sexual preference" a couple of years ago (@Jonfw2 - I think you seem to keep up with the news, given your friend in Ukraine, right?).

Also, just thanks for using literally every emoji available on my posts. That improves your credibility 10,000%.

HERO.

 

[Mle8308]

I didn’t derail anything. But thanks. You get to do you. That’s sweet.

No, you didn’t. And bsmcneil was somehow replying to me and my post, though nothing they said answered my question. Which I thought was a fair one. I hope the original poster has a great experience on their VIP tour.

 

[bsmcneil]

Not what I asked.

You asked, "why is not okay for a person to ask for a heterosexual tour guide if it is okay to ask for an LGBTQ+ tour guide?"
Because LGBTQ+ people haven't committed state sponsored violence towards heterosexuals, nor have LGBTQ+ people created laws criminalizing the existence of heterosexuals and/or people who are cisgendered.
You asked, "And why are they bigots but a person asking for an LGBTQ+ tour guide is not?"
Because LGBTQ+ CMs and Tour Guides aren't in a position to make heterosexual/cisgendered guests unsafe; bigots are defined as, "a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." and yet since there has been discrimination towards LGBTQ+ people and families, it is not "unreasonable" to request someone who would lead the group in a safer manner (the OP didn't ask only for folks who were/are LGBTQ+ but those who are also allies - a thing you and others have seemed to overlook in your desire to manufacture outrage). Nor, for that matter, is it "prejudiced" as the experience of harm is rooted in direct experience.

Do you have any more questions you're just asking, and about which you want "honest" answers?