Victoria and Alberts Dissed Me

[CinderElsa]

Recipes cannot be copyrighted. Chefs utilize other cook's ideas, anyway. That guy I'm sure did not invent roasted ice cream. You can find it all over the internet.

I'm pretty sure that V&A chef's "Roasted" ice cream was very similar to fried ice cream, which has been around for decades and was served at Chi Chi's restaurant, a popular mexican chain way back in the 80's.

Info on copyright recipes:
http://www.food.com/help/view?iid=44

OP: Did your roasted ice cream look anything like any of these pictures?

http://www.pinterest.com/explore/fried-ice-cream/

I'm sorry, but... Nothing they serve at V&A is going to resemble something that was served at Chi-Chi's chain Mexican restaurant.

What the OP was served was roasted white chocolate gelato, not fried ice cream. It is not even remotely similar.

 

[pardilia]

just an FYI. We dined there in September and had this AMAZINGLY roasted white chocolate ice cream. Texture, taste, everything was perfect. I would eat this everyday. I wanted to make some for thanksgiving so I called for the recipe. They said no! The hostess was very nice and called me back promptly but the pastry chef declined to release his recipe. This is not usual disney, but I'm assuming it's because it is Victoria and Alberts. I found one on Google that I'm going to try, but I found it interesting they did not share.

A lot of the restaurants don't share recipes anymore. Years ago it used to be more common that they would share and some had popular recipes printed out ready to go for when people asked - some still do. It's far more common to be told they don't give out the recipe now or aren't able to provide a smaller batch recipe.

I wouldn't expect V&A or other signature restaurants with more seasonal menus to share their recipes. The menu item isn't around long enough and is subject to seasonal changes (for instance, a restaurant might serve the same basic flatbread, but the toppings change).

Especially V&A, though. It's a top of the line restaurant and chefs don't get jobs at places like that by giving away all their secrets.

I'll ask sometimes for recipes, but I just find something similar online and tweak it most of the time if I can't find it already printed in a Disney cookbook.

(Also, roasted in so not the same thing as fried. I've had the roasted white chocolate gelato and it is nothing like fried ice cream at all.)

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Er, not to burst anyone's bubble here, but Disney World has a LONG tradition of sharing recipes with the public!!!

It is just one of many ways Disney has been magical. They have exceptional customer service.

I can't post to another site here, but another site on this topic has a thread with well over 100 recipes. I personally subscribe (I know, technically not WDW) to a monthly recipe newsletter from the Swan and Dolphin chefs. Disney regularly publishes cookbooks with recipes from WDW!

I also have a personal collection of Disney recipes. Some I obtained by filling out the STANDARD recipe request form available at most WDW restaurants, others I obtained online.

I have at least four from Boma alone!

Now I admit, I've never dined at V&A, and likely never will since they added the offensive no-young kids policy. Since V&A thinks they are above feeding children, makes sense they would also feel above this fun tradition.

Argh! No can't let this one go...I collected my recipes over the years, and don't ask all that often, but wow! Just this year, I met an amazingly kind an generous chef. He shared all kinds of details with us about his job. I didn't ask for any specific recipes, but I have little doubt he would have given us some had we asked.

 

[pardilia]

Er, not to burst anyone's bubble here, but Disney World has a LONG tradition of sharing recipes with the public!!!

It is just one of many ways Disney has been magical. They have exceptional customer service.

I can't post to another site here, but another site on this topic has a thread with well over 100 recipes. I personally subscribe (I know, technically not WDW) to a monthly recipe newsletter from the Swan and Dolphin chefs. Disney regularly publishes cookbooks with recipes from WDW!

I also have a personal collection of Disney recipes. Some I obtained by filling out the STANDARD recipe request form available at most WDW restaurants, others I obtained online.

I have at least four from Boma alone!

Now I admit, I've never dined at V&A, and likely never will since they added the offensive no-young kids policy. Since V&A thinks they are above feeding children, makes sense they would also feel above this fun tradition.

Argh! No can't let this one go...I collected my recipes over the years, and don't ask all that often, but wow! Just this year, I met an amazingly kind an generous chef. He shared all kinds of details with us about his job. I didn't ask for any specific recipes, but I have little doubt he would have given us some had we asked.

V&A has always been 10 and up. They don't think they're above feeding children, they're offering not just food but an experience that doesn't include possible crying babies or younger kids who tend to have more meltdowns when they reach their limit vs older kids who are better capable of articulating their needs (speaking purely from a developmental point of view). There are exceptions for every kid, but the policy is in place because of the majority that lack common sense to not bring their child/ren if they're not ready to sit at a table for at least 2 hours and have a fancy multi-course meal.

Disney obviously has a history of sharing recipes. There's a thread on this site with many of them and they've released cookbooks. Not every recipe someone asks for will be shared or available to the public and all anyone has said is that it's not weird/wrong that they didn't offer a copy of the recipe. It's nice when it happens, but it's not a thing to be expected. I've only been given maybe 2 or 3 recipes that I've requested over the past 5 years. I've been told no far more frequently.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

V&A has always been 10 and up.

No they changed the policy in January of 2008. I recall the DIS discussion quite clearly when it was changed. There were many threads. Here's one: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1678405
Sorry about getting

I read the response below (among others) as chastising the OP for even asking to have any WDW recipe:

There's no respectable chef who wants to see their creation turned into an online recipe scattered across the internet. It's admirable and a compliment to them that you've enjoyed it that much, but it hinders their creation.

I mostly meant OP wasn't out of line for ASKING to have a recipe. Saying she was "dissed" was a bit over the top to be sure, but asking is not disrespecting the chef. If done tastefully asking for a recipe is way to honor a fine chef. It doesn't really matter if the chef is a grandmother, or a professional. Many folks like to discuss and share their creations.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree about what constitutes an offensive attitude towards children. I totally agree that many parents have poor judgment, and I'm not in any way saying it is a good choice to bring young kids to V&A. I truly don't think most kids would desire, enjoy, or appreciate the food served there.

But banning children - is another matter, IMO.

To be sure, the Disney website is a bit vague. It doesn't say kids are banned. it says the experience is designed for those ten and over and may not appeal to younger children. It doesn't actually say kids under age ten are banned.

Though I didn't go so far as to try booking a child in a reservation.

 

[nkereina]

I see nothing wrong with OP calling to ask for the recipe. If you don't ask, the answer is always no!

 

[Art 1]

Er, not to burst anyone's bubble here, but Disney World has a LONG tradition of sharing recipes with the public!!!

It is just one of many ways Disney has been magical. They have exceptional customer service.

I can't post to another site here, but another site on this topic has a thread with well over 100 recipes. I personally subscribe (I know, technically not WDW) to a monthly recipe newsletter from the Swan and Dolphin chefs. Disney regularly publishes cookbooks with recipes from WDW!

I also have a personal collection of Disney recipes. Some I obtained by filling out the STANDARD recipe request form available at most WDW restaurants, others I obtained online.

I have at least four from Boma alone!

Now I admit, I've never dined at V&A, and likely never will since they added the offensive no-young kids policy. Since V&A thinks they are above feeding children, makes sense they would also feel above this fun tradition.

Argh! No can't let this one go...I collected my recipes over the years, and don't ask all that often, but wow! Just this year, I met an amazingly kind an generous chef. He shared all kinds of details with us about his job. I didn't ask for any specific recipes, but I have little doubt he would have given us some had we asked.

Do you really feel that VA thinks they are above feeding children?

 

[Pumbaa_]

back on the rails folks. This is not going to be a debate about the under 10 crowd and V&A

Did you know there is a cooking board with a plethora of Disney recipes?

Here's the link, go crazy

 

[lauradis]

op thats funny

Anyways I wouldn't share with you either, that or I would give you part of it and leave off the special stuff.

Do you realize how much effort goes into perfecting a dish.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

op thats funny

Anyways I wouldn't share with you either, that or I would give you part of it and leave off the special stuff.

Do you realize how much effort goes into perfecting a dish?

Yikes!

Yes. Though I think most chefs admit no recipe is perfect, all ideas are innovations.

Sometimes improving a dish is happenstance, or following a very tried and true formula: fat+ sugar+ starch+ salt in assorted ratios = huge hit!
Most successes build upon someone else's ideas.

Goodness. There is no such thing as a chef who didn't learn from others.

Thanksgiving week is a great time to sing Disney songs about sharing...

"There's so much that we share; that it's time we're aware; It's a small world after all."

"Barely even friends; then somebody bends"

"ready to know what the people know/Ask 'em my questions and get some answers...whish I could be part of that world"

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[minnie mum]

Yikes!

Yes. Though I think most chefs admit no recipe is perfect, all ideas are innovations.

Sometimes improving a dish is happenstance, or following a very tried and true formula: fat+ sugar+ starch+ salt in assorted ratios = huge hit!
Most successes build upon someone else's ideas.

Goodness. There is no such thing as a chef who didn't learn from others.

Thanksgiving week is a great time to sing Disney songs about sharing...

"There's a great big beautiful tomorrow! And tomorrow's just a dream away!
Man has a dream, and that's the start
he follows his dream with mind and heart
and when it becomes a reality
it's a dream come true for you AND ME!"

"There's so much that we share; that it's time we're aware; It's a small world after all."

"Barely even friends; then somebody bends"

"ready to know what the people know/Ask 'em my questions and get some answers...whish I could be part of that world"

Wading through the knee deep pixie dust, and back in the real world.

The culinary industry is no different than any other business. Does Apple share its proprietary secrets with the world? Does your investment advisor tell you all about the formulas he uses to calculate which mutual fund will be the next hottest thing? Does Universal share its plans for a new ride platform with Disney? Not intentionally.

By all means ask for a recipe when you experience an exceptional dish. But don't be surprised, insulted, or offended if the chef declines to share something that he/she might consider to be a signature item.

 

[GregShiner]

I see nothing wrong with OP calling to ask for the recipe. If you don't ask, the answer is always no!

I agree, can't hurt to ask! I am not surprised that they declined though, as previously stated, a restaurant of the caliber of V&A doesn't become what it is by sharing recipes or doing what everyone else does.

 

[Pumbaa_]

Here are the current V&A recipes on the cooking board

Victoria & Alberts: Carrot-Ginger Cream Soup page 121
Victoria & Alberts: Champagne Caviar Vinaigrette page 141
Victoria & Alberts: Infused Tomato Oil page 141
Victoria & Alberts: Mushroom Risotto page 185
Victoria & Alberts: Stilton Cheesecake page 23
Victoria & Alberts: Tiramisu page 122
Victoria & Alberts: Vegetable Strudel page 141


If you have a favorite that you want to try to replicate, head over. There are literally HUNDREDS of Disney recipes listed as well as instructions on how to request recipes. Disney shares generously

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Minnie Mum, I agree with much of what you say. except all the industries you mention DO in fact share extensively.

All of the businesses you mention share a common currency, $. They also all share standards of measurement, standards of training, and legal standards, among many other standards.

Apple forged a major partnership with IBM this past summer, and they have partnered multiple times before. Sounds like sharing to me.

Apple iPads use standard electrical outlets =sharing. Gigabytes? A shared idea. Binary code? A shared idea.

I seriously hope my investment advisor is trained and certified, and that he abides by shared legal standards.

Dinsey and Universal very much share ride platforms. Primeval Whirl, a.k.a. the Wild Mouse) is a standard coaster manufactured by Reverchon. Universal's Rip Rockit is manufactured by Maurer Sohne, which also makes Disneyland Paris' Crush's Coaster. EE is manufactured by Vekoma, maker of 288 coasters operating worldwide, including Universal Singapore's Battlestar Galactica.

Chefs are no different. I mean: beef, fish, poultry, flour, butter, eggs. V&A lists Galilee Osetra Caviar. I'm pretty sure that's the same caviar I can buy online from Dean&Deluca, otherwise why would they list the brand name?

I'm confident V&A's 'Duck A l'orange" is based on the traditional recipe. According to legend, it was an Italian recipe in the Middle Ages before it migrated to France in the 1500's via Catherine de Medici and her entourage. Sounds pretty far from an original recipe created at V&A.

OP, try subbing the term "carmelized" for the inflated term, "roasted" and you'll get multiple recipes for white chocolate gelato. chocolate Timbales are also called "bouchons." no promise you'll find the EXACT recipe V&A uses, but you can likely get something imperceptibly close with a little effort. The one thing you won't maybe have is the exact kind of pan V&A uses, and the pan can make a big difference. Cakes cooked in cast iron muffin pans taste very different form aluminum pans. Animal fats usually taste better than vegetable ones. It is telling that the Timbales aren't listed on the VA vegetarian menu. Sometimes the great secret ingredient chefs use is just good old fashioned lard of some kind. It's cheap, and guests don't want to know. Maybe that's exactly why they don't want to share the recipe!

 

[Richard M Nixon]

Minnie Mum, I agree with much of what you say. except all the industries you mention DO in fact share extensively.

All of the businesses you mention share a common currency, $. They also all share standards of measurement, standards of training, and legal standards, among many other standards.

Apple forged a major partnership with IBM this past summer, and they have partnered multiple times before. Sounds like sharing to me.

Apple iPads use standard electrical outlets =sharing. Gigabytes? A shared idea. Binary code? A shared idea.

I seriously hope my investment advisor is trained and certified, and that he abides by shared legal standards.

Dinsey and Universal very much share ride platforms. Primeval Whirl, a.k.a. the Wild Mouse) is a standard coaster manufactured by Reverchon. Universal's Rip Rockit is manufactured by Maurer Sohne, which also makes Disneyland Paris' Crush's Coaster. EE is manufactured by Vekoma, maker of 288 coasters operating worldwide, including Universal Singapore's Battlestar Galactica.

Chefs are no different. I mean: beef, fish, poultry, flour, butter, eggs. V&A lists Galilee Osetra Caviar. I'm pretty sure that's the same caviar I can buy online from Dean&Deluca, otherwise why would they list the brand name?

I'm confident V&A's 'Duck A l'orange" is based on the traditional recipe. According to legend, it was an Italian recipe in the Middle Ages before it migrated to France in the 1500's via Catherine de Medici and her entourage. Sounds pretty far from an original recipe created at V&A.

OP, try subbing the term "carmelized" for the inflated term, "roasted" and you'll get multiple recipes for white chocolate gelato. chocolate Timbales are also called "bouchons." no promise you'll find the EXACT recipe V&A uses, but you can likely get something imperceptibly close with a little effort. The one thing you won't maybe have is the exact kind of pan V&A uses, and the pan can make a big difference. Cakes cooked in cast iron muffin pans taste very different form aluminum pans. Animal fats usually taste better than vegetable ones. It is telling that the Timbales aren't listed on the VA vegetarian menu. Sometimes the great secret ingredient chefs use is just good old fashioned lard of some kind. It's cheap, and guests don't want to know. Maybe that's exactly why they don't want to share the recipe!

Watch out, every business ever, this guy had debunked the entire patent system. Everything is made out of the same 118 base elements rearranged in some order or another. And those elements all just use protons, neutrons, and electrons. What's the deal with intellectual property, anyways?



The above response was sarcastic. You're really reaching for examples of why a recipe may be considered 'signature' or merit secrecy in some way. Sure Apple had made agreements with other companies, but they have teams of lawyers being paid more money than you or I will ever see to come up with NDAs where they can sue one another into oblivion if someone leaks something they aren't supposed to. If we want to keep talking food, just try emailing the Coke executives and ask for a copy of their formula. A chef isn't obligated to share their recipe just because you can deduce that they used eggs, flour, and butter. I mean, every food product you can buy at the store comes with a list of what's in it, but not a recipe for reproduction.

 

[mefordis]

Five star post.

It seems a lot of people on this thread think being a chef is all about creating recipes. No, it's about technique and understanding the science behind cooking food, textures, what goes with what. It's more about implementation. If leading chefs were so worried about their recipes we wouldn't find cookbooks and free food network recipes from the celebrity chefs.

Minnie Mum, I agree with much of what you say. except all the industries you mention DO in fact share extensively.

All of the businesses you mention share a common currency, $. They also all share standards of measurement, standards of training, and legal standards, among many other standards.

Apple forged a major partnership with IBM this past summer, and they have partnered multiple times before. Sounds like sharing to me.

Apple iPads use standard electrical outlets =sharing. Gigabytes? A shared idea. Binary code? A shared idea.

I seriously hope my investment advisor is trained and certified, and that he abides by shared legal standards.

Dinsey and Universal very much share ride platforms. Primeval Whirl, a.k.a. the Wild Mouse) is a standard coaster manufactured by Reverchon. Universal's Rip Rockit is manufactured by Maurer Sohne, which also makes Disneyland Paris' Crush's Coaster. EE is manufactured by Vekoma, maker of 288 coasters operating worldwide, including Universal Singapore's Battlestar Galactica.

Chefs are no different. I mean: beef, fish, poultry, flour, butter, eggs. V&A lists Galilee Osetra Caviar. I'm pretty sure that's the same caviar I can buy online from Dean&Deluca, otherwise why would they list the brand name?

I'm confident V&A's 'Duck A l'orange" is based on the traditional recipe. According to legend, it was an Italian recipe in the Middle Ages before it migrated to France in the 1500's via Catherine de Medici and her entourage. Sounds pretty far from an original recipe created at V&A.

OP, try subbing the term "carmelized" for the inflated term, "roasted" and you'll get multiple recipes for white chocolate gelato. chocolate Timbales are also called "bouchons." no promise you'll find the EXACT recipe V&A uses, but you can likely get something imperceptibly close with a little effort. The one thing you won't maybe have is the exact kind of pan V&A uses, and the pan can make a big difference. Cakes cooked in cast iron muffin pans taste very different form aluminum pans. Animal fats usually taste better than vegetable ones. It is telling that the Timbales aren't listed on the VA vegetarian menu. Sometimes the great secret ingredient chefs use is just good old fashioned lard of some kind. It's cheap, and guests don't want to know. Maybe that's exactly why they don't want to share the recipe!

 

[Richard M Nixon]

Five star post.

It seems a lot of people on this thread think being a chef is all about creating recipes. No, it's about technique and understanding the science behind cooking food, textures, what goes with what. It's more about implementation. If leading chefs were so worried about their recipes we wouldn't find cookbooks and free food network recipes from the celebrity chefs.

There's a difference between celebrity chefs and regular restaurant chefs. At the top level, those celebrities aren't actually in a kitchen when there isn't a camera in their face. They are bringing in money from shows, branding, books, franchises, etc. They don't need special signature dishes because they aren't fighting for capital to open restaurants and get publicity. Celeb chefs are, as the name implies, more celebrity than chef. When you're talking V&A chefs, you probably wouldn't recognize them in the street because they aren't celebrities. They're amazing chefs and worthy of high acclaim in the field, but they haven't 'broken through' and become start like Emeril. They're busy actually being chefs, which means they will guard their secrets more closely and have to bring something to the table other than a name.

 

[JennyDrake]

I have relatives who won't share recipes.

My great aunts deliberately say something awry abut the recipe so it won't turn out right for anyone else.....

 

[Oakenshield]

As someone who earns a living cooking and creating dishes for other people, no way in hell would I be sharing my recipes or secrets. Sure, you can go ahead and find a recipe online to recreate, and maybe it won't be the same as what you were really looking for, but that's really what makes a chef special. We can take a recipe and tweak it and add a little extra magic to make it our own, and that's what will keep people coming back for more.

 

[mgentry210]

Geez! Sorry I set off such a debate. I'm not going to chime in on whether or not chefs should or would share. My personal experience at Disney is that they have offered recipes in the past if I especially liked something. Just wanted to let everyone know that it's not the current policy at V&A. I don't go around in my daily world asking for recipes. This time it was the texture of the gelato that was excellent. Also, I never heard of or tried roasting chocolate.

So I googled and tried it today. I used one of Leibowitzs recipes and it was perfect. I tweaked his custard base with the one I typically use. Roasting the chocolate was surprisingly easy. I am going to have some happy family on Thursday. And no, it's nothing like fried ice cream. This is a custard base with the roasted chocolate mixed in. My texture was good but not the same. I would love to know the eggs to milk to cream ratio. I'll keep working on it.

Happy to share my recipe if anyone wants.