VERY disappointed in DVC and their member cruise!

[ToddyLu]

Not only does the OP have a point...but...my DH specifically took vacation during the Member's Cruise in October next year. He has to pick out vacation a year ahead. I knew it would be hard to book becasue of the demand...but now there is no chance of going with his vacation set in stone and it being in a completely different month. I do not want to cruise in January.

This whole thing really chaps my a**. I have been waiting since the Disney Files to book. Now they have completely changed everything. Even with drinking the Disney koolaid, I have now choked and gagged.



I think I will send an email or something when I get home from work....and yes, we did purchase all 210 points DIRECT!

 

[peacelover]

That's not too bad a differential, since the MC's in the past have had the tips included in the price.
I'm torn, we had bad weather on CC last November, and I imagine there could be a pretty good chance that the ship doesn't get into CC. Yet, the MC isn't all about CC. We went on the one in '05 and thoroughly enjoyed it, and that's with discounting the "presents." I gave most of them away, including most of the pins, I'm not a collector. I really enjoyed the companionship of the members on the cruise, and the special entertainment.
DH and I had planned a Princess partial crossing of the Panama Canal that January. I'm really torn, I wonder if we can do both, back to back?

OP, I'm sorry about the position you are in. There has been talk of "tiered" memberships here in the past. We thought it was going to reward people with many points, but it seems that DVC may be going the route of ostracizing, not rewarding. I'm sad about that. They've practically stopped exercising ROFR, but then they punish the people for buying perceived bargains. Our MC was fun and worthwhile.

I looked at it again.....a 3 day cruise would be $350 per person more expensive on the member cruise. A 4 day cruise would be about $1000 more for 2ppl. Is a member cruise that much better? Just wondering, I have never taken one.

 

[Chuck S]

I would be irritated, OP. What's next ... are people who purchased resale going to be given a different colored membership card that doesn't allow access to free DVD rentals at the resorts????

Different membership cards, restricting discounts to only direct purchasers would not surprise me at all. DVC IS at its core, a sales driven timeshare. Many other timeshare brands, including the higher end brands, restrict some perks and usage to those that purchase direct.

I own almost 600 points. Almost all of them are resale purchased prior to the changes. I do own 120 direct points, which are worth half what I paid for them.

I totally agree with the Op. It is a DVC *Member's* Cruise. The Op is a member. I can see if he couldn't use his points to book, but he should be allowed to pay cash. The day that the purchaser of a resale is no longer a member, will be a very bad day for all of us. Because, no matter what any of us say, there just may be a day you need to sell. And I'd be angrier if I was a direct purchaser than a resale owner. At least I don't have as much investment to lose.

It depends upon how you place a value on the timeshare. Is the resale value "the value." Most owners of other timeshares will tell you that the "value" of a timeshare is in your use of the timeshare, not in what it will bring resale...many, many timeshares resale for little or nothing. I've even heard of people paying others to take them off their hands.

 

[Caren90]

I think you are all missing the point here. Disney only wants direct sales members onboard so they can direct sell them more points onboard. They know that if you purchased AKV on a resell at $60 they are not going to be able to convince you to purchase more points at $120.

If you think Disney is "only" doing the cruise to thank you, you mistaken, they are charging you more to come with the intentions of selling you on more points.

Never have truer words been spoken!

 

[jarestel]

It seems that DVC's position regarding resales going forward will pretty much mirror the conventional wisdom of the DISBoards - purchase resale with the intention of staying at DVC resorts.

Having said that, I suspect all "restricted" memberships will be welcomed aboard with open arms if DVC fails to sell out the two cruises.

 

[wdrl]

Not sure what the new plans will be now that Jim Lewis is gone but he was very adamant that going forward there would be more restrictions to resale versus direct sales.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future.

Jim Lewis has been gone for several months, but he still gets the blame. I guess Claire Bilby's honeymoon continues

 

[tammymacb]

It depends upon how you place a value on the timeshare. Is the resale value "the value." Most owners of other timeshares will tell you that the "value" of a timeshare is in your use of the timeshare, not in what it will bring resale...many, many timeshares resale for little or nothing. I've even heard of people paying others to take them off their hands.

I agree with you. When you buy you should factor your use as the main factor. I own HHI points I've paid $40 for, and BWV points I paid $50 for. I've done several trips, the Member's Cruise. They're paid for. So, in my case, if I sell, I'll have gotten my value for them.

But, when you go to a sales pitch for $150+ per point and tell the guide that, "I'm 40, I won't be using these points 50 years from now. And I'm not comfortable giving debt to my family as a gift by way of MFs", in the past, you were told ( and true ) that the points held their value well. It was part of the sales pitch that all was safe with Disney. Well, they obviously can't say that now. And at 150 per point, you're in for a huge hit from every angle.

I understand "why" Disney is doing this, I just don't think it's the best move for member's as a whole.

 

[edk35]

It seems that DVC's position regarding resales going forward will pretty much mirror the conventional wisdom of the DISBoards - purchase resale with the intention of staying at DVC resorts.

Having said that, I suspect all "restricted" memberships will be welcomed aboard with open arms if DVC fails to sell out the two cruises.

AMEN

 

[Brian Noble]

So, I'm part of the Great Unwashed, so perhaps I don't "get it." But, if you can't book the Member's Cruise, so what?

Do you get a few extra baubles that "ordinary people" don't get? Sure. Is there a show or two that "ordinary people" can't see? Probably. But, it's not as though the "ordinary people" cruises aren't also tons of fun---they are, I've done one.

I suppose it's possible that magical awesomeness happens on the Member Cruises, and the Members are all hush hush about it. (Does anyone else remember the SNL skit when Eddie Murphy went "undercover" as a white man?) But it's more likely that this is just another way to create a "sense of scarcity". Creating something that is a nice little perk but with little real value, and then telling people they can't have it unless they fork over big bucks to Mickey for a full-freight timeshare.

"Oooh, shiny! Here's my checkbook!"

 

[keaster]

I'm not a fan of the 3 and 4 night cruises (too short!)

Also...the points needed for the DVC member cruise are more than what they are for the 7 night Fantasy cruise we are going on in March 2013.

 

[BEASLYBOO]

The OP says she was aware that buying resale after 3/11 would have limitations. Were those limitation fully discussed/disclosed prior to that purchase, who knows? Some of that stuff in tiny print? It's unfortunate that you feel your not getting a benefit you feel you should be entitled to pay cash for. Can MS make an exception? Was the restrictions legal verbage extenvive enough to cover every scenario or will it be up to DVC to make up the rules as these issues come up.

Fortunately/Unfortunately MS depending on who you talk too or how many times you call may give you different answers to the same question.

Were I to add points, I would still buy resale, for me the cruises & other travel options don't matter, nor would I feel like a second class DVC'r doing so!

Good luck to you!

 

[wdrl]

As far as I know, the only notification** given by Disney to resale buyers about restrictions in the use of resale points is via the Notice of Waiver of Right of First Refusal. Beginning in late June 2011, DVD modified the language on the Notices of Waiver that it issues when it waives its Right of First Refusal on resale transactions. A new paragraph was added for those transactions in which the Owner is selling their points to a third party. The Notices now include the follow paragraph:

Members purchasing their Ownership Interest in any DVC Resort from a person or entity other than directly from DVD shall not be able to use the Vacation Points associated with that Ownership Interest for reservations or stays through the Incidental Benefits known as the Adventurer Collection, Concierge Collection, or The Disney Collection. Do not purchase your Ownership Interest in reliance on your ability to transfer these products, services and Incidental Benefits if you sell your Ownership Interest or based upon their continued availability. ​

The standard contract that the Timeshare Store uses for resale transactions also has similar language.

**EDITED to add - I shouldn't have said this was the "only" notification. In addition to the Notice of Waiver, the Home Resort Rules and Regulations that are part of the Master Declaration for each resort reflects this change.

 

[Chuck S]

But, when you go to a sales pitch for $150+ per point and tell the guide that, "I'm 40, I won't be using these points 50 years from now. And I'm not comfortable giving debt to my family as a gift by way of MFs", in the past, you were told ( and true ) that the points held their value well.

True, but even we early direct purchasers had to know that at some time, as the contracts were limited use and not eternal, that the resale value would be $0 at some point. It is only common sense.

Someone who is in their 40s and buying DVC, statistically should be able to use it for 30+ years. With a contract end date at most of 50 years use, it seems common sense would say, "Gee, with 20 years left the contract probably won't be worth much to my heirs." I truly don't understand people that would expect a limited use timeshare to hold a high resale value up until the last day of the contract.

 

[DenLo]

The DVC Member Benefits Guide has an added paragraph plus the one mentioned in wdrl's post.

INCIDENTAL BENEFITS MAY NOT BE HYPOTHECATED, BOUGHT, SOLD, EXCHANGED, RENTED OR OTHERWISE TRANSFERRED, EXCEPT UPON WRITTEN APPROVAL OF DVD, AND ARE SOLELY FOR YOUR BENEFIT AND NOT FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOUR ASSIGNS OR SUCCESSORS-IN-INTEREST. IF YOU SELL YOUR OWNERSHIP INTEREST, INCIDENTAL BENEFITS DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY TRANSFER TO YOUR BUYER. THE AVAILABILITY OF INCIDENTAL BENEFITS MAY OR MAY NOT BE RENEWED OR EXTENDED TO SUCH ASSIGNS OR SUCCESSORS-IN INTEREST. DVD RESERVES THE RIGHT, IN ITS SOLE, ABSOLUTE AND UNFETTERED DISCRETION, TO ELECT TO PERMIT TRANSFER OF ANY ONE OR MORE INCIDENTAL BENEFITS, AND, IF IT DOES SO, MAY REQUIRE PAYMENT OF FEES AND/OR CHARGES AS A CONDITION TO TRANSFER.
DO NOT PURCHASE YOUR OWNERSHIP INTEREST IN RELIANCE ON YOUR ABILITY TO TRANSFER THESE BENEFITS IF YOU SELL YOUR OWNERSHIP INTEREST.

BEGINNING MARCH 21, 2011, MEMBERS WHO PURCHASE OWNERSHIP INTERESTS IN ANY DVC RESORT FROM A PERSON OR ENTITY OTHER THAN DIRECTLY FROM DVD SHALL NOT BE ABLE TO USE THE VACATION POINTS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT OWNERSHIP INTEREST FOR RESERVATIONS OR STAYS THROUGH THE INCIDENTAL BENEFITS KNOWN AS THE ADVENTURER COLLECTION, CONCIERGE COLLECTION OR DISNEY COLLECTION.

It looks like DVD is saying that the Disney Member Cruise is an incidental benefit of buying direct. I wonder if the Merry Mixer and Welcome Home Wednesdays will be limited in future?

My complaint about this change is that the DVC allows members to bring guests on the member cruise. So why are guests allowed this DVC benefit? But resale members who have a DVC Member card cannot pay cash for the member cruise? But when I really think about it the children of members are technically guests because they are too young to be on a deed. This gets complicated quickly.

As far as I can tell there is no reason DVD cannot in the future take away these perks from all resale members. There is nothing in writing that says everyone that purchased before March 21, 2011 is permanently exempt.

 

[tjkraz]

But, when you go to a sales pitch for $150+ per point and tell the guide that, "I'm 40, I won't be using these points 50 years from now. And I'm not comfortable giving debt to my family as a gift by way of MFs", in the past, you were told ( and true ) that the points held their value well. It was part of the sales pitch that all was safe with Disney. Well, they obviously can't say that now. And at 150 per point, you're in for a huge hit from every angle.

You're generalizing, though.

The only thing DVC is selling for $150 per point is BLT add-on contracts of 49 or under. With incentives, the net prices are $138-140 per point on BLT for any first-time purchase or 50+ pt add-on.

The Timeshare Store has BLT listings over $100 per point. The median appears to be about $95-97 per point, which is a 30% discount off of direct pricing. With the exception of BCV--which has always bucked the trends--that resale spread isn't far off of the long-term history for DVC.

The other resorts in active sales--SSR and AKV--have a similar resale discount of approximately 30%.

Other resorts are going for less but those prices are influenced by supply & demand, low years remaining and annual dues rates.

A HHI resale contract purchased for $40 per point is a great way to get into the system and may lead to tremendous 7 month booking success. But it doesn't have any bearing on the future resale value of BLT points.

 

[lugnut33]

I don't care what anybody says, but DVC not allowing a DVC member to purchase a Member's Cruise is just plain silly. Kafka would be proud.

 

[smjj]

When I read this was going to happen back when, I was glad we were already in the system and thus exempt from the rule. I however thought that the Member's cruise would not be included since it was DVC sponsored. I feel for those who have gotten dinged by DVC trying to force people to pay the much higher rate than going the resale market like so many us have done. I would had gladly bought DVC from them had I not thought I was getting ripped off.
The last Member's Cruise(2011) we took will probably be our last anyway. They are just to expensive and they have turned in to nothing more than a captive audience for the sales pitches they are constantly throwing at you. Heck the free stuff this time was in our opinion very lame at best. We did have a good time but decided there are better ways to spent our DVC points. We have been on two and that is enough....smjj

 

[Chuck S]

I don't care what anybody says, but DVC not allowing a DVC member to purchase a Member's Cruise is just plain silly.

I agree to a point. IF they require that the member cruise have the primary traveler booked on points, then the rest payable in cash...it would exclude the resale purchasers. But, IF direct purchasers are allowed to pay all cash, then I personally see no reason why resale people should not be able to book all cash.

But it is DVC/Disney's playground, they can set the rules.

I honestly don't know what the booking rules are, as I really don't have an interest in cruising. Maybe at some point in the future, but right now, sailing on a cruise ship just doesn't hold any interest for me.

 

[Brian Noble]

It looks like DVD is saying that the Disney Member Cruise is an incidental benefit of buying direct.

I don't even think it's that complicated.

Disney is offering a particular cruise, for cash, only to a subset of its potential customer base. As long as DCL is not using a "protected class" (race, gender, etc.) to define who is in and who is out, they can do what they as a private company. For example, they could tomorrow decide that some particular cruise will only be available to residents of Georgia and Florida, if they so chose.

The only reason they would need to *exclude* the cruise was if there was some other passage in the documents that suggested Members were *entitled* to the opportunity to purchase a for-cash Members-only cruise. I suspect no such passage exists.

 

[SmilingGrump]

The more they restrictions they put on resales, the more they water down the value of direct sales. Many (most?) people who have purchased a DVC membership do so with the idea that if they ever decide to sell, there will be some value to their membership. Sure, that value will go down as there is less time left on the contract, but it's a fairly steady decline. Ripping benefits out of resales (no matter how minimal the benefit) greatly accelerates that decline AND it makes their customers quite bitter. It will take a bit of time to see that ripple effect, but Disney is shooting themselves in the foot. Resale buyers will be spending much less at the Parks out of spite and when word gets widely spread, new sales will drop because there's no way to tell what they'll rip out next and therefore no way to gauge what value their contract will have in 10, 20, or 30 years.

They'd be MUCH wiser to offer incentives to purchase direct. An extra discount on APs, TIW cards, or something like that. It doesn't even have to be a BIG discount, just a little extra something that makes direct buyers feel extra special.

Bribery works much better then coercion.