Vent Thread: My Son's School's *Agenda*

[mrsltg]

Well, I can understand your concern. HOWEVER, this is not the "school's agenda" this is the opinion of a teacher. It wouldn't fly at my parish school. I've also never had a Catholic tell me who was and was not going to hell - they can't. Nor can anyone.

I'd call the school and find out what the deal was.

As far as pushing an agenda - I went to public school on Long Island for twelve years. Talk about a pushed agenda.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I too would talk to the teacher and then the Nun. I believe this was her opinion and not a memo she got.

I too am Catholic, but I went to public school. Yes they too had an agenda, everybody does. It is the quality of the education vs the amount of agenda that all parents have to reconcile with themselves to decide if that particular school is right for their kids.

If the public school is so bad and the Catholic school is so Catholic, then you can either homeschool or move to an area where the school choices meet your needs.

 

[Divamomto3]

Yes, I guess so!!

I think I did not believe that they would push those agendas in a 5th grade classroom. My previous experience with them (with my DD) was predominantly biblical history, the meanings of each sin, etc. They had addressed homosexuality in her "life" class, as well as abortion, and their stance on it. It was all pretty neutral, even though they were clear where they stood.

Whatever happened yesterday was a notch or two above what I was used to hearing.

I don't think you should be thinking of it in terms of "pushing their agendas." It's not like they're going door to door trying to convince you to convert to their way of thinking. You voluntarily sent your kids there and you PAY them to teach your children this stuff. They aren't trying to convert anyone, they think they already have a captive audience filled with children whose families believe the same things they do. I feel your pain regarding having an awful public school, but I think in that case I'd either move or send my kids to a non-religious private school. The philosophy of a religious school is the hope that the parents want Catholicism ingrained in their children, and the values and teachings of it interwoven in every subject. In my experience, it's the families who send their kids there looking for superior educations and can't agree or live with the doctrine that are the least happy.

That being said, I went to Catholic School and my kids (3 sons) go there now. My oldest is graduating from 8th grade in 2 weeks and has been going there since Pre-K. I doubt homosexuality was ever discussed in any grade. Perhaps they may have said that the Church feels it is wrong, as well as premarital sex being wrong, but my kids have never been threatened with the fires of Hell with anything. As a matter of fact, all the teachers, including the Principal are lay. There are no nuns to be found. And I've never seen our Priest regularly even step foot in our school building. The 8th grade homeroom teacher was reading the DaVinci Code on the bus on the way to our NYC field trip. I"m sure she was just keeping up on current events and not "believing" what she was reading. What Ally&Jack went through in 1990 is blatant child abuse...I can't believe that was tolerated. Even when I graduated from 8th grade in 1981 and had several nuns and the priest had an office inside our school back then, I remember no "mortal sin/you're going to Hell" speeches. The closest I've ever come to that was a graphic Pro-Life film that was shown to us in my strict, All Girls, Catholic High School.

I feel bad for how hard this must be for you. We are moving this summer and my kids will attend Public School. I'm sure that will be a total culture shock for all of us.

 

[diznygirl]

I don't see it as "pushing an agenda" sanctioned by the school - I see it as a teacher who has a little too much "enthusiasm" for the subject. Please don't hold it against the entire school, and certainly not the entire Catholic religion. There are Christians from all religions who have been on one or both of these bandwagons.

Make sure your son knows that the teacher's personal opinion really had no place in the classroom, and that he is free to think for himself at all times.

 

[MinnieM3]

I don't see it as "pushing an agenda" sanctioned by the school - I see it as a teacher who has a little too much "enthusiasm" for the subject. Please don't hold it against the entire school, and certainly not the entire Catholic religion. There are Christians from all religions who have been on one or both of these bandwagons.

Make sure your son knows that the teacher's personal opinion really had no place in the classroom, and that he is free to think for himself at all times.

this is almost exactly what I was going to post! Sounds like a *teacher* with an agenda and not a school or whole religion. I'd take it up with the principal or at least the teacher.

 

[Christine]

I too would talk to the teacher and then the Nun. I believe this was her opinion and not a memo she got.

I too am Catholic, but I went to public school. Yes they too had an agenda, everybody does. It is the quality of the education vs the amount of agenda that all parents have to reconcile with themselves to decide if that particular school is right for their kids.

If the public school is so bad and the Catholic school is so Catholic, then you can either homeschool or move to an area where the school choices meet your needs.

Whoa Nelly. Let's not read too much into this. Yes, the particular public school is very bad. NO, the Catholic school is NOT too Catholic. My goodness, things sometimes get blown up around here. I have been at this school for 4 years now and it has been perfectly fine.

My issue is not with the entire school or the Catholic religion. It is with this teacher who decided to lecture a group of 5th graders on the evils of The Davinci Code (and believe me, my son was quite clueless about it until yesterday) and then segued into the sinful homosexuals.

I have NO problems with the Catholic church teaching this to their members and in a thoughtful and respectful manner. I do have a *small* problem with it being sprung on a bunch of 5th graders in the manner that is was done. I did question my son again tonight and asked him what brought about The Davinci Code conversation. Apparently they were discussing Judas and "how one of the apostles killed himself." The teacher then said something to the effect about not believing apostle stories that are talked about in the media these days and then went on The Davinci Code rant. How it went into homosexuality, I don't know.

Honestly, I thought it was a very appropriate discussion for the 8th graders at THE SAME school, just not 5th graders.

 

[Christine]

I don't think you should be thinking of it in terms of "pushing their agendas." It's not like they're going door to door trying to convince you to convert to their way of thinking. You voluntarily sent your kids there and you PAY them to teach your children this stuff. They aren't trying to convert anyone, they think they already have a captive audience filled with children whose families believe the same things they do. I feel your pain regarding having an awful public school, but I think in that case I'd either move or send my kids to a non-religious private school. The philosophy of a religious school is the hope that the parents want Catholicism ingrained in their children, and the values and teachings of it interwoven in every subject. In my experience, it's the families who send their kids there looking for superior educations and can't agree or live with the doctrine that are the least happy.

That being said, I went to Catholic School and my kids (3 sons) go there now. My oldest is graduating from 8th grade in 2 weeks and has been going there since Pre-K. I doubt homosexuality was ever discussed in any grade. Perhaps they may have said that the Church feels it is wrong, as well as premarital sex being wrong, but my kids have never been threatened with the fires of Hell with anything. As a matter of fact, all the teachers, including the Principal are lay. There are no nuns to be found. And I've never seen our Priest regularly even step foot in our school building. The 8th grade homeroom teacher was reading the DaVinci Code on the bus on the way to our NYC field trip. I"m sure she was just keeping up on current events and not "believing" what she was reading. What Ally&Jack went through in 1990 is blatant child abuse...I can't believe that was tolerated. Even when I graduated from 8th grade in 1981 and had several nuns and the priest had an office inside our school back then, I remember no "mortal sin/you're going to Hell" speeches. The closest I've ever come to that was a graphic Pro-Life film that was shown to us in my strict, All Girls, Catholic High School.

I feel bad for how hard this must be for you. We are moving this summer and my kids will attend Public School. I'm sure that will be a total culture shock for all of us.

Laura,
I agree with everything you say. I want to iterate that I do not have a problem with Catholic doctrine being taught to my child. I went into this with my eyes wide open. I know they have an agenda, I know they have a captive audience of believers, and if my son so chooses to believe what they are telling him, I don't have a problem with that either. In 4 years, this is only the second time I've taken issue with the way something has been said, worded, whatever. I just thought the whole conversation was ridiculous for 5th graders. It really had nothing to do with WHAT they were saying. It was more of HOW they were saying it.

I apologize if my thread title threw confusion on this. I guess it is misleading.

 

[Christine]

Please don't hold it against the entire school, and certainly not the entire Catholic religion.

Believe me, I'm not. Most every person that I have close relationships with is Catholic. If I held this against them, I would be very lonely. I definitely realize that this is a "teacher" thing and not a school thing.

 

[poohandwendy]

My response to things being said in school that I didn't agree with was just open discussion with the kids. I see it as an opportunity, not necessarily a bad thing.

There really is no way to avoid exposure to the the opinions of teachers, even strong opinions. That is especially going to be true in a school that is religiously based. The key is to help your child process it, think about how they feel about it and respect that everyone has a different way of seeing things.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Don't be afraid of the scary nun. Just go speak with her. Nothing will get resolved if nothing is said and if you believe the teachers agenda is too personal--I doubt that it will be limited to just one day.

I agree with what Disney Doll said. She summed it up nicely.

If you disagree with conduct in the classroom (Which is what this seems to be), then you are compelled to say something. Maybe you are not the only parent who feels this way. Maybe--this has opened the door to the teacher being more vocal about her personal opionions.

The catholic church has an official position on this book--wouldn't it be nice to know if Sister Mary Scary Nun requested her teachers to cover it in class--or maybe she said to not say anything unless it is brought up in class and then say a prepared statement, or maybe she did say to damn the book and make sure the kids know it.

You have the statement of your "he's only in 5th grade" Fifth grader. It may warrant in finding out more information from the perspective of an adult and perhaps nipping in the bud possible misconduct on the teacher's part.

 

[momof2inPA]

I'm Catholic, and I can't wait to see the Da Vinci Code. It was a great fictional book, as was Angels and Demons. This isn't the first movie the Church has condemned, and it won't be the last.

As for the homosexuality discussion, I think you should mention it to the principal. Unless it was discussed in the confines of sex-ed, I bet teachers have been cautioned about discussing the subject.

 

[poohandwendy]

I calmly tried to explain that this was the Catholic belief (homosexuality is wrong). He knows that we don't believe this at home and he is having such a time with this.

I guess this is what I get and, because he is so young, it is hard for him to reconcile it.

The thing is, and you do admit it, this is what happens when you place your child in a belief-based school that does not subscribe to your personal beliefs.

I guess it boils down to whether or not she was within the spectrum of what she is allowed to discuss in the classroom, per the school rules.

 

[Rella Bella]

The good news here is that your pre-teen son was bothered by something that was said and he talked to you about it!! That is a victory! Wherever our kids go to school they will hear things that they misunderstand, things that we don't believe and things that are flat out wrong. If you can just keep them communicating you have the perfect opportunity to impart your own views and values when they are ready to hear!! Good job mom!

 

[Daxx]

the teacher said that homosexuality is "totally" wrong (her words) and that it is a major sin and that, basically, you would go to hell if you were gay.

I guess what I'm asking is, is this par for the course in the Catholic School?

Is teaching Catholic doctrine is par for the course in a Catholic school? Uh, yeah! Catholic doctrine tells us that homosexuality is deemed a major sin and wrong. So, the teacher is just repeating Catholic doctrine. It's not her, necessarily, that feels that way ... it's the way the church feels.

 

[DVC Sadie]

I certainly understand why you would choose that but, what would you do if the only school you could send your child to had gangs, "daily" incidents? It's a pretty bad place. My DD was in a fine public elementary school and, in 6th grade, she started at this school. We kept her there for a total of 45 days. It was terrible. Just can't do it.

But, I do agree that if a good public school was an option, we would be there.

Living here in the deep south I have to say that my parents sent me not only to a Catholic grade school but also a Catholic high school.

They did transfer me into a public high school but because of my prior education in my elementary shool I was already reading on a sophomore level of college so they switched me back to Catholic high school. No, I was not any smarter than my peers but the foundation was not only laid but proven.

BTW, my parents were Presbyterian but thought my education was more important than their religious beliefs.

Sometimes a person has to do whats best for the child. As long as the parents help with both the religious and academic education of the child I truly believe all will be well.

 

[helenabear]

Then he goes on to say that they got into a discussion of "gays" and the teacher said that homosexuality is "totally" wrong (her words) and that it is a major sin and that, basically, you would go to hell if you were gay. Every kid in the classroom was sort of going along with this and it sounded like it turned into a gay-bashing festival, especially with the boys. My son was very disturbed by this and was wondering why the teacher had such animosity and vengeance on these issues. Really bothered him.

I calmly tried to explain that this was the Catholic belief (homosexuality is wrong). He knows that we don't believe this at home and he is having such a time with this.

FWIW, that teacher is not really explaining the true "Catholic Stance" on homosexuality. Yes, the act of, is a sin (per the church) but being homosexual itself is not. No mention of burning in hell, but that to do the act of, would be just as much of a sin as lying. My specific church is well known for embracing the gay community and making sure they are welcomed. So please tell your son that the teacher wasn't even correct, that they were giving *their opinion* not the official stance. We "hate the sin, but love the sinner"

That teacher was out of line with what they said for more reason than just one.

As for the Davinci Code, it is very anti-Catholic, whether it means to be or not. More less in a fiction book, saying that all the Catholic church believes is a lie. Yes, it is fiction, but fiction can be hurtful when it portrays anything in a bad light.

That said... the teacher was WAY out of line with what they said. I would actually talk to someone in the school about both! They have no right to say what they did about homosexuality as well as the Davinci Code. Yes, many church heads suggest a "ban" on the book and movie, but for your child's teacher to have said that was way out of line and way off. They have no right to give their *opinion* like that on something. I think if it was something officially sanctioned by the Church, then that might be okay. I do not feel that either was appropriate for an 11 year old to discuss in a class room.

 

[Daxx]

the teacher said that homosexuality is "totally" wrong (her words) and that it is a major sin and that, basically, you would go to hell if you were gay.

I guess what I'm asking is, is this par for the course in the Catholic School?

Is teaching Catholic doctrine is par for the course in a Catholic school? Uh, yeah! Catholic church tells us that homosexuality is deemed a major sin and wrong. So, the teacher is just repeating Catholic church beliefs. It's not her, necessarily, that feels that way ... it's the way the church feels.

 

[gina2000]

The movie is rated PG-13. Fifth graders are 10 or 11. While some may see it, the vast majority probably have no interest or real knowledge of the film. Seems like the teacher may have been a bit over zealous and alot misguided in getting her message out. Seems like the message wasn't really targeted at an appropriate age group. Seems like someone had the need to rant about a subject near and dear to her heart.

I'd handle it the way you did. It sounds more like an individual opinion rather than a school subscribed agenda. I'd be listening rather closely in the future, though. Generally speaking, personal opinions about controversial subjects have no place in the classroom.

 

[Alice Sr.]

Is teaching Catholic doctrine is par for the course in a Catholic school? Uh, yeah! Catholic church tells us that homosexuality is deemed a major sin and wrong. So, the teacher is just repeating Catholic church beliefs. It's not her, necessarily, that feels that way ... it's the way the church feels.

No, being a homosexual is not a sin.

FWIW, that teacher is not really explaining the true "Catholic Stance" on homosexuality. Yes, the act of, is a sin (per the church) but being homosexual itself is not. No mention of burning in hell, but that to do the act of, would be just as much of a sin as lying. My specific church is well known for embracing the gay community and making sure they are welcomed. So please tell your son that the teacher wasn't even correct, that they were giving *their opinion* not the official stance. We "hate the sin, but love the sinner"

Helenabear - My understanding is that lying is not a mortal sin so it's not as serious as being in a homosexual relationship, but being in a homosexual relationship is no more or less of a sin than millions of heterosexuals having premarital or extramarital sex (myself included). It personally makes me crazy when these zealots want to tar and feather "gays" but the zealots aren't walking the walk themselves.

OP, I'm not sure where you are living, but hopefully there are other options open to you. I know how you feel, I am Catholic and sent my DDs to a very good "Born again" school. I loved the teachers and they loved my DDs and the education was fabulous but in the end I could not deal with their doctrine and took my girls out. There are times I have regretted that move but in the end you have to follow your heart and what you feel is ultimately best for your babies. The best of luck to you and your family.

 

[DISUNC]

OP

I know precisely how you feel. I went to Catholic parochial school from 1st grade thru Sophmore year at high school.

I know all too well when it comes to Current issues vs. Catholic beliefs. It can be VERY confusing to a child.

MANY MANY YEARS ago.....I was 10 years old....and had NO CLUE as to where Babies came from or anything else about the subject. At the time (way back when) Abortion just became legal and on TV Maude was going to have one.

I was 10....and was forced to right letter to CBS executives condemming MAUDE & Abortion. I hadn't a clue to what the nuns were talking about, nor did anyone else in the class. However I KNEW DONT ASK ANY questions.

Also once I had a poem about the similarites between Lincoln & Kennedy. There was a talk show on TV where someone was saying how JFK was a reincarnation of Abraham Lincoln. Needless to say I mentioned this to the teacher. OUCH my backside hurt for days! My father is protestant and my Mother is Catholic....one Priest acctually told me (when I was 9) that this was a sin. Even though they were married by a Priest.

Just tell your son, that what he hears in school is not necassarily what your families beliefs are. He is 11, he will understand.