VENT: Ted Kennedy!

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by wvrevy
I never said that. But I'll be d****d if I'll sit and listen to someone tell me I don't have a right to my opinion (I'm just a "complainer", right) or make out like I don't support our country when I DID serve.

For God's sake, grow up. No one said that you didn't have a right to your opinion. So what if someone called you a complainer? You are, just as we all are about one thing or another. So what? Complaining is just another way of voicing an opinion. I would hardly equate being called a complainer to being told you don't have a right to your opinion.

 

[Melora]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
I would be happy to consider facts and possibly change my mind if any actual facts were presented from the Bush Bashing Brigade.

Do you have some? Facts, that is?

I read the news daily, I read Newsweek daily (oppps is that too democratic a magazine?) and I use my head after reading these things.

Facts are presented daily that clearly point out the problems with this administration. I could post dozens of links, but to no avail simply because there is nothing the bleeding heart liberal news reporters (even the respected ones from CNN and Time and Newsweek and Reuters) could say that would not be criticized as being democratically biased.

If you truly want facts, start with some of the home pages of the large news groups and go from there, but watch out..if you start to believe what is printed then you just MIGHT have to change your political affiliation.

 

[wvrevy]

Nor would I equate asking for someone's qualifications to telling them they don't have a right to their opinion. I am simply trying to show that, while she has a right to express her opinion, her qulifications show that that opinion isn't quite as "informed" as it might be.

As someone whose DH has made a career out of the military, I'd think you would take exception to her characterization of military people as "just waiting on their government checks" as well. But, I guess, since you agree with her politics, you don't have a problem with her comment since it was directed towards me, right ?

"Grow up" ? Please, keep the condescending attitude coming...I'm enjoying it....

 

[minniepumpernickel]

"Republicans are ruining the country"
They keep parroting the same misinformation over and over again!

Oopsy, I was having a flashback from the debate board for a second.

Wrevy- Join us on the DB if you don't mind getting your blood pressure up!

 

[AirForceRocks]

If you truly want facts, start with some of the home pages of the large news groups and go from there, but watch out..if you start to believe what is printed then you just MIGHT have to change your political affiliation.

I read a number of news weeklies as well, along with the Washington Post everyday, and I keep up with the broadcast news on the networks, CNN and MSNBC. And yes, they are chock full of facts, none of which have made me change my mind.

But what I've seen the members of the BBB try to pass off as facts simply aren't.

- President Bush knew there were no WMDs. Opinion, not fact.
- President Bush went into Iraq for oil. Opinion, not fact.
- President Bush could have stopped 9/11 but he chose not to. Opinion, not fact.

The difference between you and I is that I can recognize the difference between fact and opinion. I use facts as a basis for my opinions, whereas you claim your opinions are facts.

BTW, my party affiliation is Democrat, but I don't blindly follow the party line. I think for myself and vote for the person, not the party.

I am simply trying to show that, while she has a right to express her opinion, her qulifications show that that opinion isn't quite as "informed" as it might be.

Depending on how long you've been out of the military, her opinions may well be just as informed as yours.

As someone whose DH has made a career out of the military,

There you go, making assumptions again. Yes, my DH has made a career out of the military, as have I. Do you think that I'm informed enough now to have an opinion?

I'd think you would take exception to her characterization of military people as "just waiting on their government checks" as well.

I don't believe she directed that comment at military people, but I could be wrong.

"Grow up" ? Please, keep the condescending attitude coming...I'm enjoying it....

How is that any more condescending than saying that anyone that would vote for Republicans are doing so without thinking?

 

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

So far the liberals on this thread have called Bush a "moron," "idiot," and a "retard." Well, that's first class man. I'm going to change my mind because of insults!

And he is a horrible President because sometimes he makes grammatical errors.

That childish and mean spirited bashing of Bush is just the kind of thing that Ted Kennedy does best. It's a shame that while our boys and girls are off fighting for liberty abroad that we are calling their Commander in Chief a retard. Even if you disagree, could you please do it in a polite manner, some of you guys have gotten out of control.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Depending on how long you've been out of the military, her opinions may well be just as informed as yours.

I've been out for a while (about 7 years), but at least I know what it was like to be IN the military...I know (as do you) what it means to have no choice in the decisions that are made at that level, despite it meaning your life on the line rather than the person making the decision (and I was FAR from any front lines).

There you go, making assumptions again. Yes, my DH has made a career out of the military, as have I. Do you think that I'm informed enough now to have an opinion?

Didn't know that Honestly, I'd have said you were qualified based on only your DH being a lifer, as you'd at least have been close to the situations that military people have to face. I didn't mean to imply otherwise, so if I did, I apologize...

I don't believe she directed that comment at military people, but I could be wrong.

No, she directed it at me, personally...but it speaks to her impression of military people, don't you think ? Or was she just trying to be funny, and I missed it ?

How is that any more condescending than saying that anyone that would vote for Republicans are doing so without thinking?

It's not, particularly, save that it was directed personally rather than towards a group. I get your point, though...

 

[AirForceRocks]

I didn't mean to imply otherwise, so if I did, I apologize...

No problem whatsoever, no need to apologize, but thank you.

 

[wvrevy]

No problem......You know, it's strange...I'm only old enough to really remember elections back to around the Carter / Reagan campaign, but I don't EVER remember an electorate that was THIS divided...

Do any of you ? If not how do you explain that ? Why is it that the current administration has become such a lightening rod for such liberal attacks, and why is it that "liberal" has become such a vile insult to some people ? Are people like Anne Coulter, Sean Hannity, Al Franken, and Michael Moore just driving a wedge between parties that will - literally - see the populace so divided that violence actually occurs ? I mean, I know of at least one case where a local high school kid was hit with rocks and garbage because he was part of a protest against the war...is that really what we've come to as a country, and how can anybody classify that as a good thing ?

 

[HANDYMOM]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Well, that'll certainly get me back for one more post, at least:

Ya Da Ya Da Ya da


Quite frankly, ma'am, you're a hypocrite...and I'll thank you to keep your personal comments to yourself, as you aren't qualified to judge me unless you've done the things I have.

I'm anxiously awaiting your response about when and where you served.....

Wow, a lot of emotion flowing while I went to lunch. First, I rarely look at any writing under someones screen name, I'd hardly characterize that under "reading comprehension" but if you do, I guess you can blame it on my education which all took place in the Kennedy/Kerry land of Massachusetts. Pot calling kettle black, I never said anything about my tone, no one ever brought it up. They brought yours up specifically, perhaps its the anger issues you are obviously dealing with spilling out for all to see.

I've never served in the military, I'm female, in my 30's and since I didn't opt for a military career and there's been no draft, I don't see where you're going with this. My point is that if you are not enlisted military, collecting gov't paychecks to participate in such a horrible war and White House administration, leave, get a job in the private sector. Don't just whine about what you don't like about your boss. I don't even think I posted your referenced comment about you originally, I think it was for Vamp, the intelligence person.

As far as the military collecting gov't paychecks, I have never made a comment. I actually wish our military (true military not just commentary desk jockey's) were paid much more. They are our National Treasure and while I have not served along with them, I lift them up daily in prayer and I grieve with the families of the lost.

I've also never suggested that anyone's opinion is less valid than another nor have I said that someone shouldn't state it. My comments about your posts was to point out that you were more interested in whining, complaining and stirring people up than in offering valid points for people on both sides (maybe more than 2 even) to ponder.

Now go take your prozac and give your keyboard a break angry man !

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I guess we are about the same age, wvrevy. I do not think that the "talking heads" are dividing people. I do think they are expressive of the opinion each side has.

I think politics is so more fierce because 9-11 happened. People are afraid of the backlash if the invasion of Iraq was not the right thing to do. The problem is honestly only the history books will know.

In order for things to be kept in check we need fierce debating to keep balance. Sometimes it gets ugly and that is a shame but unavoidable I am afraid.

jmho

 

[faithinkarma]

I think politics is so more fierce because 9-11 happened.

That is so true, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. When attacked by a foreign force, Americans should have come together.

I have spent a lot of time wondering why people came together to stand as one so briefly.

Each side can blame the other ad nauseum, but it helps nothing.

I wonder if a great leader could have united people ? I am not saying that President Bush is not the right leader, just that he does not seem to be a great one. One of the very few who go down in history.

It is truly sad, and possibly dangerous, for such a great country to be so divided.

 

[wvrevy]

Mystery....I dunno...When I see books like those by Coulter and Hannity that call liberals (and pretty much anyone that disagrees with those two nazi's is labled a liberal) "traitors" and worse...and books and comments by their liberal counterparts that are just as outrageously false, I have to wonder at the effect that has on the populace as a whole.

As to the 9/11 thing...I agree that it's become somewhat of a polarizing issue. There's the side that says we oughtta flatten the middle east, and the side that sees it as a more complex problem than that. Unfortunately, the side that is in power is the side that seems to believe in shooting first and asking questions later, and I (as a libertarian at heart) have a pretty major problem with that. Before 9/11, that meant that I'd disagree with a lot of these people, but wouldn't necessarily be labled a "traitor" or "pacifist" for my beliefs. Since then, however, it's either drink the kool-aid, or prepare to deal with people like I've seen on this thread...perfectly willing to attack you rather than your ideas.

I've never been one to really buy into the whole "media influence over the populace" theory, until it's been shoved down my throat since 9/11. When Bill Maher lost his job for saying that the hijackers weren't "cowards", I knew then and there that we were in trouble unless people stood up to the "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" mentality.

 

[AirForceRocks]

I actually wish our military (true military not just commentary desk jockey's) were paid much more.

I would like to remind you that anyone that is in the military is making sacrifices of some kind, whether they sit behind a desk or whether they are serving on the front lines. Obviously, some military jobs are much more dangerous than others, but I don't really see the point insulting those that ended up in non-combat positions.

I'm a computer analyst/programmer, and I've never seen a day of combat in my life, but I can assure you that I'm "true military" too.

 

[ripleysmom]

I think that politics was fierce before 9-11 happened. The resentment towards and rabid hatred of Bill Clinton (which is obviously still present today) is an indicator of that. If you go to the DB and look at the political debate threads from around the time of the election you will see evidence of that.

I believe that that hatred allowed the American people to be duped into putting a warmongerer into office and one can only hope that enough people have realized that we have been duped by the President and his cronies.

I used to think that it was men like Powell and Schwartzkopf that kept Desert Storm from turning into another Vietnam. I now realize that it was the UN by not allowing us to remain in Iraq.

I feel sorry for Colin Powell. It must make him ill to realize how badly he has been used by his President.

 

[AirForceRocks]

The resentment towards and rabid hatred of Bill Clinton (which is obviously still present today) is an indicator of that.

ITA.

But what I find interesting is that the very same people that couldn't understand why people hated President Clinton so much now have that same level of irrational hatred towards President Bush. And the people that had an irrational hatred of President Clinton now complain about the current hatred of President Bush without a hint of irony at the fact that they were the same way about President Clinton.

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by johare
Clinton was a very well educated intelligent person. Bush is a retard who can't even pronounce words correctly. It's pointless to argue with a brainwashed Republican though so I'm not going to bother. Go ahead and continue to feed on your factitious right wing propaganda.

Here's the facts on your Clinton Body Count BS. I'm sure it will be dismissed by you though because it doesn't come from Rush Limbaugh.

whoever said I'm Republican...???


I'll give more credence to what you have to say when you stop the immature name calling..... since when is Snopes,,guaranteed facts.....

 

[The Mystery Machine]

AFR that just plain 'ole politics. I see that as unchanging even before Bill.

The difference I am speaking too is the emotion that is tied to the resentment each side harbors.
There are just so many things that are "loose ends" and it is OVERWHELMING!

Also I want to add to the fact that everyone has in the back of their minds. Will something happen before the Nov. election like Spain? I think people are going to increase their anxiety on each side until then.

And then if something happens (God forbid), I think the division will be the most intense will will ever see.

 

[caitycaity]

As far as the military collecting gov't paychecks, I have never made a comment. I actually wish our military (true military not just commentary desk jockey's) were paid much more. They are our National Treasure and while I have not served along with them, I lift them up daily in prayer and I grieve with the families of the lost.

wow!

a lot of those "desk jockey's" work day in and day out to keep the troops that are in combat situations safe.

personally, i am grateful to ANYONE serving in our armed forces, regardless of the role they play.

 

[faithinkarma]

what is a commentary desk jockey? If that was a misspelling I apologize, it was not my intention to point out a spelling error. It is just a phrase I am totally unfamiliar with.