Vent about DH not siding with me about daughter

[golfgal]

as one who has a dh who does this to me I agree 100% it is NOT about the eraser or the cell phone it is about undermining the others ability to parent it's about a power trip for the other spouse this at times is a great source of aggravation in my marriage address this with the offending spouse before it spirals out of control and you find yourself resentful and angry it will fester and ruin your relationship!!!

What if the power trip is on the mom's side? What if Dad thinks that mom goes out of her way to discipline the 12 year old and never the 8 year old. No, he shouldn't have disagreed in front of the kids but what if the mom is wrong? My DH will often hand down "punishments" for no real reason other than to think his is being "super Dad". We talk about that frequently, not in front of the kids, but it is hard to watch him make these arbitrary decisions and not say anything. His favorite is not letting DD go to a friend's house. He doesn't understand why she needs to go to a friends house or have her friends over and thinks she does this too much, this coming from a hermit. There is no rhyme or reason to his decisions and DD has figured that out so she will ask me before Dad because she knows I am more reasonable about that then he is.

In the OP's case the whole eraser thing should have been a TOTAL non-issue to begin with and not worthy of a punishment.

I would love to know how the conversations went between sisters before this all happened too.

 

[mhsjax]

Sweet lord.....Give me patience. I cannot believe people are actually making this about the ERASER or the CELL PHONE. It's about a husband undermining his wife's authority to parent their children and sabotaging her ability to discipline. The other stuff is trivial.

Two kids were fussing/squabbling/fighting/generally making the day increasingly unpleasant because there was only ONE of something and each needed to occasionally use that SOMETHING. It did not cause physical or psychological trauma to the 12 y.o to share the SOMETHING, although it may have annoyed her. Well, siblings can be annoying. That's life. The SOMETHING could actually have been put in between the two of them for use by both....It can be used by hand.....I've seen it done. It doesn't matter that the 8 y.o. could have brought her own. Coulda, shoulda, woulda. She didn't and that's what the mom had to work with. What she got was a 12 y.o. who wanted to draw a line in the sand over an eraser vs. obeying her mother.

It seems to me the mom wisely was concerned that if this kept escalating, it might tarnish the day at the grandparents' house. She was trying to nip it in the bud. Gee, pardon her for considering that the atmosphere of the day was more important that the 12 y.o. retaining sole custody of a freaking eraser. It matters not whether the 12 y.o. is old enough to have a phone....She HAS one. That ship has sailed. According to this mom, taking the phone away makes an impact on her DD. Isn't that what she was aiming for? She asked the child to share and made it clear what would happen if she did not. The child CHOSE to defy her. Therefore, the child CHOSE the consequences. Then Daddy let her off the hook. Bad, bad, bad... Bad for a marriage, bad for parenting together.

If I tell my child to do (or not do) something or X will happen and they openly and willingly defy me, then hell to the yes I will do exactly what I threatened. So what if it's over an eraser? That's not the point. It's okay to defy her mother over a cheap ERASER?????? No, that just sounds like a battle of wills and for that family's sake, the mom had best win.

ETA: The seed has already been planted. If Mommy doles out a consequence that I don't like, I'll run to Daddy and get him to say I can ignore her. THAT is what he accomplished. He may not have had that aim, but that was the end result. This needs to be stopped NOW or the teenage years will not be fun.

Excellent post. And yes I do realize that it isn't about the eraser or the phone. Sometimes I just can't help myself when I post a reply.

 

[luvmy3]

What if the power trip is on the mom's side? What if Dad thinks that mom goes out of her way to discipline the 12 year old and never the 8 year old. No, he shouldn't have disagreed in front of the kids but what if the mom is wrong? My DH will often hand down "punishments" for no real reason other than to think his is being "super Dad". We talk about that frequently, not in front of the kids, but it is hard to watch him make these arbitrary decisions and not say anything. His favorite is not letting DD go to a friend's house. He doesn't understand why she needs to go to a friends house or have her friends over and thinks she does this too much, this coming from a hermit. There is no rhyme or reason to his decisions and DD has figured that out so she will ask me before Dad because she knows I am more reasonable about that then he is.

In the OP's case the whole eraser thing should have been a TOTAL non-issue to begin with and not worthy of a punishment.

I would love to know how the conversations went between sisters before this all happened too.

Maybe in your house the eraser thing would have been a non issue, in mine it wouldn't. I don't think the dd should have been punished but you bet your behind that if my 12 year old dd was witholding somethng from one of her younger brothers I would be making it an issue. Its not about the eraser, its about the behavior and since I know how my dd acts, and I know that she does things on purpose to torment her brothers, I would have stepped in just like the OP. You have no idea the family dynamics, maybe this kind of stuff often goes on and needs to be addressed frequently, therefore for them it would be an issue.

 

[mjkacmom]

I completely disagree!

It is an eraser that is on the end of the pencil that the 12 year was using to draw with. IMO she WAS using it. It was on her pencil. Is she supposed to stop drawing and hand it over to the sister? Is she supposed to pull the eraser off her pencil constantly? Frankly, now that I know the details this changes everything. I do not blame the 12 year old one bit for standing up for herself and refusing to share. And I don't blame the husband for refusing to punish his daughter.


OP why didn't YOU think to bring an eraser for your other daughter? She's 8. She shouldn't be expected to know there are no erasers at her grandma's house and think to bring one. You dropped the ball and your older daughter who thought ahead gets punished. I think that sends a horrible message.

I also find it rather amazing that MIL didn't have ONE pencil in the house that the younger daughter could have used once it became an issue.

You really think the OP should've thought to bring an extra eraser to grandma's?! I took dds7, ds7, and dd9 to the dentist after school yesterday. They needed to do their homework, and we only had one pencil. Guess what - they shared! And I can't think of a single reason why a spouse should undermind another spouse when it comes to discipline - heck, I think the advice of having a united front comes written in the pregnancy test. Having older kids (12 and 13), I can totally see where the OP is coming from. It is beyond annoying when the older kids tease the younger ones. A lot of it is hormones, but needs to be stopped. Now, I pick my battles, but if we're at someone's home, or out in public, I'll put a stop to the nonsense.

 

[aprilgail2]

I agree 100 percent that the husband should not have undermined the wife about the punishment- even though I feel it was silly to punish for that he still hsould have backed her up. That being said if one child brings something and another doesn't then tough on the one that doesn't- live and learn. If and when the other child finishes with that item THEN the other can have/use it--but otherwise find something else to do kid or remember to bring something with you! I don't see why one should be forced to share something they brought with them simply because!

 

[golfgal]

Maybe in your house the eraser thing would have been a non issue, in mine it wouldn't. I don't think the dd should have been punished but you bet your behind that if my 12 year old dd was witholding somethng from one of her younger brothers I would be making it an issue. Its not about the eraser, its about the behavior and since I know how my dd acts, and I know that she does things on purpose to torment her brothers, I would have stepped in just like the OP. You have no idea the family dynamics, maybe this kind of stuff often goes on and needs to be addressed frequently, therefore for them it would be an issue.

Which is why I said I would like to have heard the entire conversation. My sister was very good at doing things to make the rest of us mad, yet, WE were the ones that always got into trouble which is why I am not automatically assuming the 12 year old is wrong. As for it being a non-issue, I don't believe in making a scene and I would have asked Grandma for another eraser and talked to DD at HOME about her behavior, thus a non-issue.

 

[mjkacmom]

There is no need for a child that young to have a cell phone.

Your child is then obviously very young. Dd13 calls me after school to let me know where they are going (starbucks, a friend's house, etc.). I call her when I need her to walk home (there are no payphones out there anymore). Ds12 calls me when baseball practice is over (or to let me know he forgot his batting gloves). I call them when I forget to let them know they have an orthodontist appointment, and to walk on over. I call them to let them know I'm running late, and will be there shortly.

When dd13 broke her phone, she had to pay to buy one on ebay - my life would be WAY more complicated if she didn't have a phone. ETA, cellphones are the primary way teens make plans today. They have everyone on a group text, and if you miss the text, you don't go. No one is going to call a home phone.

 

[golfgal]

Your child is then obviously very young. Dd13 calls me after school to let me know where they are going (starbucks, a friend's house, etc.). I call her when I need her to walk home (there are no payphones out there anymore). Ds12 calls me when baseball practice is over (or to let me know he forgot his batting gloves). I call them when I forget to let them know they have an orthodontist appointment, and to walk on over. I call them to let them know I'm running late, and will be there shortly.

When dd13 broke her phone, she had to pay to buy one on ebay - my life would be WAY more complicated if she didn't have a phone.

NO KIDDING--how did we survive without them. I LOVE that we all have cell phones. Our twins got one when they were 11 because they wanted one, and for no other reason than that. DS17 got his when he was in 7th grade because I wanted him to have one because it made MY life easier . He used up all of about 12 minutes that year and all the calls were to us to come pick him up when he was done with practices.

 

[declansdad]

Your child is then obviously very young. Dd13 calls me after school to let me know where they are going (starbucks, a friend's house, etc.). I call her when I need her to walk home (there are no payphones out there anymore). Ds12 calls me when baseball practice is over (or to let me know he forgot his batting gloves). I call them when I forget to let them know they have an orthodontist appointment, and to walk on over. I call them to let them know I'm running late, and will be there shortly.

When dd13 broke her phone, she had to pay to buy one on ebay - my life would be WAY more complicated if she didn't have a phone. ETA, cellphones are the primary way teens make plans today. They have everyone on a group text, and if you miss the text, you don't go. No one is going to call a home phone.

People did all this before there were cell phones. If someone wants to talk to you and you don't have a cell phone, they will find a way. If they don't, they didn't really want to talk to you.

 

[mjkacmom]

People did all this before there were cell phones. If someone wants to talk to you and you don't have a cell phone, they will find a way. If they don't, they didn't really want to talk to you.

And we survived without email. Today, everything is done via email or texts. If the coach needs to cancel soccer practice, you get an email or text. You don't have email or texting? You are standing alone at the field, wondering where everyone else is. Teens, unfortunately, have lost the ability to "call" someone. I can't count the number of times some of dd13's friends have missed out on a social event because they didn't check their phones. I don't think even the most popular kids are considered "call" worthy.

 

[jillyb]

Did the punishment fit the crime? No. Was what your DH do wrong? Yes! Bottom line: whether one parent agrees with the punishment given by the other parent you don't undermine each other. The punishment should stand and then the parents need to sit down and have a conversation about it....and not in front of the kids. IMO parents should always show a united front in front of the kids. Otherwise they'll know they're the ones in charge and will cause strife and chaos every chance they get.

 

[TwinsinCA]

You really think the OP should've thought to bring an extra eraser to grandma's?! I took dds7, ds7, and dd9 to the dentist after school yesterday. They needed to do their homework, and we only had one pencil. Guess what - they shared! And I can't think of a single reason why a spouse should undermind another spouse when it comes to discipline - heck, I think the advice of having a united front comes written in the pregnancy test. Having older kids (12 and 13), I can totally see where the OP is coming from. It is beyond annoying when the older kids tease the younger ones. A lot of it is hormones, but needs to be stopped. Now, I pick my battles, but if we're at someone's home, or out in public, I'll put a stop to the nonsense.

To answer your first question? Yes. If a 12 year old had that foresight, then so should an adult.

There was no teasing in this scenario as it has been presented. The 8 year old wanted it and the 12 year old didn't want to hand it over. That alone isn't "teasing" in my opinion. Had the 12 year old said "neener neener I have one and you DON'T" That's different. But the OP didn't say the 12 year old said anything of the sort.

It makes me angry to see people who are responsible and prepared be punished because they don't want to hand something over to someone who is not. Yes, it is only an eraser, but the principle is the same.

 

[NHdisneylover]

OP here - I appreciate that most of you have said that DH should not have taken the punishment away from DD. This is an ongoing issue in our family that I need to work on with him.

My DD's were drawing with pencils that had no erasers but DD-12 thought to bring one of those erasers from home that you fit on the end of a pencil. After repeatedly telling DD-12 to share the eraser, I felt the need to punish her by taking her cell phone away and 15 minutes is the first thing that came out of my mind....thinking back I should have said for 24 hours at least. Or yes, I could have walked over to her and demanded the eraser from her. As a side note, DD is very careful using her phone not to go over her allowed texts per month, is not allowed to bring her phone to the dinner table-she follows that rule without a problem attitude. If we were home instead of at my inlaws and that was the only eraser in the house, I probably would have sent DD-12 to her room. Most of the time I do stay out of sibling squabbles but there are times when I need to get involved and at a holiday gathering was one of those times.

To reply to a PP who asked if I call DD a brat? No, I never call my children brats or any other name. I was just using it here and venting to all of you.

Up until DH not siding with me, it was just another day of parenting and trying to have DD-12 have some manners/compassion for her younger sister.

I am curious if you are the baby in your family and your DH the oldest and perhaps your experiences as children are coloring your different reactions to the situation?

The two statements I have bolded make me think there are much bigger issues at play here than just the sharing of an eraser yesterday.
The lower statement (in conjunction with the way you spoke of your DD being a brat in your OP and the title which indicates you are TAKING SIDES against your child) make me think that you often (or perhaps always) side with your younger daughter over your older daughter and that you often become involved in their little disputes. Of course the top statement makes it clear that your husband frequently disagrees with your disciplinary techniques and then often undermines you in front of the kids.
It seems to me like you have two big issues you need to work out together:
1.You need to AGREE on discipline much better than you are now. It should not occur that your DH frequently feels your way of handling a situation is wrong. Talk with him calmly and openly and find out why. Maybe he sees something you do not.

2. Your husband should not be undermining you in front of the kids. In that same conversation about why he feels you are often not doing things correctly--when he sees that you are making an honest attempt to discipline in a way he can agree is fair--come to an agreement to support each other in front of the kids but review any disagreements yourselves in private ASAP after they happen. Note, that your husband should NOT undermine you, but that goes both ways. If he says, let them work it out themselves, or she really should not have to share that eraser, etc in front of the kids before you get into the middle of the argument then you need to let that stand as well (and then calmly talk about it later).

For example, I suggest you sit down with your DH after the kids are in bed and talk about the eraser incident. Start off without being accusatory and instead asking him what YOU did wrong that caused him to disregard your punishment. Seriously, ask nicely and with the true intent of finding out what he feels should have been done differently before the point of you taking the cell phone away. You may find out that he heard the younger one being mean, you may find out that he feels you bully your older DD and he thinks he needs to defend her, you may find out he felt you should have stayed out of the dispute all together, or that the punishment did not fit the crime or he may even tell you he was just trying to lighten the situation with a badly inappropriate "joke" or even that he does not know why he reacted as he did and now regrets it. Odds are he does think you did something worn and then you can follow that up with nicely explaining your views on the matter and working out a plan for future similar instances. As part of that plan you can discuss that showing the kids a unified front is important so that they do not learn to play you against each other.

Finally, I will avoid the cell phone debate entirely, but I agree with a few others that you should not be getting involved in sibling squabbles very often (okay while visiting and causing a commotion but your post that I bolded makes it sound like this is par for the course with you). When you do have to be involved I would caution you to remember that younger siblings can push buttons just as well as older ones can and it generally takes to to argue. With that in mind following the advice set forth by a PP to just take away the item they are arguing about all together or seperating them is often the best course.

 

[Scurvy]

People did all this before there were cell phones. If someone wants to talk to you and you don't have a cell phone, they will find a way. If they don't, they didn't really want to talk to you.

I remember the days when I was in band, and all the hours my parents spent sitting in dark parking lots on Friday night waiting for us to get back from our away games. The school building was locked and there were no pay phones outside. Sometimes we were a couple of hours later than expected and my parents sat there waiting the whole time. We had practice two afternoons a week and it almost always ran late. My parents got tired of sitting and waiting for me every time so they started sending quarters so I could call when practice was over. Now my son is in band, and he doesn't have the option of a pay phone because there simply aren't any left around here. I'm not willing to sit and wait for hours for his band bus to finally get home or for his director to finally release them from practice when I have the perfectly good option of giving him a cell phone.

Cell phones - like land lines, the internet, email, and many other things - are tools. They have the potential to be abused and they also have to potential to make your life much easier. It's up to each parent to decide when they feel comfortable giving their children access to those tools, and what privilages they are willing to let the children enjoy. If you don't want your kids to have cell phones that's a completely valid choice for you. If other parents do want their kids to have cell phones that's a completely valid choice for them. Just because you don't see the need for them doesn't mean that other people don't think they are necessary.

 

[mjkacmom]

To answer your first question? Yes. If a 12 year old had that foresight, then so should an adult.

There was no teasing in this scenario as it has been presented. The 8 year old wanted it and the 12 year old didn't want to hand it over. That alone isn't "teasing" in my opinion. Had the 12 year old said "neener neener I have one and you DON'T" That's different. But the OP didn't say the 12 year old said anything of the sort.

It makes me angry to see people who are responsible and prepared be punished because they don't want to hand something over to someone who is not. Yes, it is only an eraser, but the principle is the same.

It is not difficult to share an eraser, an object that is used for a couple of seconds at the time. But that's not the point - the point is, mom told her to share, and she didn't. It's not like her dd12 was playing her ds, and mom told her to hand it over to dd8.

And when we go to grandma's, I don't remember ever thinking to call out "time to go - don't forget your pencils AND your erasers!".

 

[disneydreamersx4]

Ditto! And this was the first time they brought drawing materials so we'll live and learn about what we forgot. Also, both DD's were sitting with everyone at the dining room table so we heard everything that was going on between the siblings....DD8 asked nicely to DD12 can I use the eraser? Kindness people, that's all that was needed from DD12.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I agree that your DH should NOT have done that in front of your DD. That being said, it does sound extreme - even when you post it here you are calling her a brat, etc. Is it possible that you sometimes over-react to her? Again I'm not condoning his doing this in front of your daughter.