Vengeance

[rcyannacci]

The word "Vengeance" has been rattling around in my head for a couple of days- likely prompted by the state of world and national events, and from listening to the conversations around me. Anyway, I found these quotations, so I thought I'd share:


Winston Churchill: "Nothing is more costly, nothing is more sterile, than vengeance."

Shakespeare: “The rarer action is in virtue than in vengeance.”

Jane Porter: “The best manner of avenging ourselves is by not resembling him who has injured us.”

Romans 12:19: “Avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath; for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”

Proverb (unknown origin): "The noblest vengeance is to forgive."

 

[LScot]

Romans 12:19: “Avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath; for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”


I always think of this scripture when I hear or think about the word vengeance.
Of course, I also believe "there is a time for war and a time for peace."

 

[Wathel R Bender]

'Vengeance' swipes cake, eats it, too

August 30, 2004

A 6-foot-tall, 275-pound bearded man crashed a children's birthday party in Oak Forest, identified himself as "vengeance," then helped himself to a piece of cake, police said.

The incident occurred earlier this month at a home in the 14800 block of South Landings Lane in the south suburb, Deputy Police Chief Nick Sparacino said.

When the owner of the home asked the man who he was, the intruder replied, "I am vengeance. I am the knight. I am Batman." Then the man went into the kitchen, cut a piece of birthday cake, took it into the living room and ate it.

After continued questioning by the homeowner, the man left the house and drove off in a red 1988 Cadillac.

Police haven't found the man yet and want to charge him with criminal trespass.

"I've been on the job 31 years and I've seen a lot of weird stuff, but nothing like this," Sparacino said.

 

[tidoublegger]

And there is always the famous Vengeance quote from Pulp Fiction!

 

[Wathel R Bender]

Vengeance taken will often tear the heart and torment the conscience. Arthur Schopenhauer 1788-1860, German Philosopher

Something of vengeance I had tasted for the first time; as aromatic wine it seemed, on swallowing, warm and racy: its after-flavor, metallic and corroding, gave me a sensation as if I had been poisoned. Charlotte Bronte 1816-1855, British Novelist

Where vice is vengeance follows. Scottish Proverb

An essential condition of listening to God is that the mind should not be distracted by thoughts of resentment, ill-temper, hatred or vengeance, all of which are comprised in the general term, the wrath of man. R. V. G. Tasker

Vengeance has no foresight. Napoleon Bonaparte

 

[Kendra17]

While I'm not familiar with the Winston Churchill quote, I am familiar with Winston Churchill. As the great leader of WWII Britain, Churchill, unlike his predecessor, was no appeaser and understood the concept of total victory and total war. Unfortunately, it would seem that soon we will be in some kind of a total war--if we are not already there.

The response of the United States and now of Russia--and eventually of the entire civilized world--will, of necessity, be a massive one.

To imply that the defeat of one's enemies is merely "vengeance" is to misunderstand the nature of this conflict. Our response is not built upon vengeance. For, if it had been, we would now be on horseback and the entire middle East would be a parking lot. We are not about vengeance, we are about the cessation of terror and cruel violence.

The way to this ending of terror can only be through victory. There actually is no option but victory. This is not a matter of vengeance. And, to characterize the righteous response of civilized societies to child killers and mass murderers by describing it as vengeance, is nothing more than classic appeasement and silly spineless calls for inaction.

Certainly those involved in the murders in Russia and the killers of 9-11 merit the harshest form of vengeance possible. If you care to describe their inevitable defeat as vengeance, then so be it. However, vengeance is merely a side benefit. The actual benefit will be their defeat and a world free of terror, mass murder, and unspeakable inhumanity.

(To the OP specifically: You might criticize my thoughts in that the last sentence of the previous paragraph has a certain Utopian ring. . .however, the only true way to actually bring about any semblance of a Utopia would be the utter defeat of those who care nothing for human life. It is our responsibility now to take action against these killers of our children and fellow citizens.)

 

[rcyannacci]

My reason for posting these quotations was to leave the context open, to either think more broadly about the concept of vengeance or to allow each person the opportunity to think through individual issue.

The current war in Iraq, the horrible attack in Russia, are only a couple of things I've been thinking about in relation to vengeance. I agree with you that terrorism needs to be addressed, but when we say "we," I wish that we could be inclusive of a larger world population, that the "we" was not one nation making all of the decisions alongside a loose gathering of nations without the power to demand an alternative plan for the peace. It is this unilateralism and not necessarily the action itself that much of the world population has seen as American vengeance.

But, I've also been thinking about the nature of vengeance in our more local communications with one another. Bush-hating and Karry-hating- there's vitriolic rhetoric is spewing from both sides and it scares me. I'm sad when debates on these boards turn away from the issues themselves and into vengeful attacks.

Kendra- you should know from our past exchanges that I'm a big fan of utopian thinking, so no I don't criticize you for that last statement. I truly believe that certain issues require utopian thinking so that we may think of creative solutions beyond our own current limitations. We just disagree with the path of action (see comments above on unilateralism).

 

[Kendra17]

Originally posted by rcyannacci
My reason for posting these quotations was to leave the context open, to either think more broadly about the concept of vengeance or to allow each person the opportunity to think through individual issue.

The current war in Iraq, the horrible attack in Russia, are only a couple of things I've been thinking about in relation to vengeance. I agree with you that terrorism needs to be addressed, but when we say "we," I wish that we could be inclusive of a larger world population, that the "we" was not one nation making all of the decisions alongside a loose gathering of nations without the power to demand an alternative plan for the peace. It is this unilateralism and not necessarily the action itself that much of the world population has seen as American vengeance.

But, I've also been thinking about the nature of vengeance in our more local communications with one another. Bush-hating and Karry-hating- there's vitriolic rhetoric is spewing from both sides and it scares me. I'm sad when debates on these boards turn away from the issues themselves and into vengeful attacks.

Kendra- you should know from our past exchanges that I'm a big fan of utopian thinking, so no I don't criticize you for that last statement. I truly believe that certain issues require utopian thinking so that we may think of creative solutions beyond our own current limitations. We just disagree with the path of action (see comments above on unilateralism).

My specific comments to you regarding Utopianism were tongue-in-cheek. . .

Although Germany and France were notably absent, our approach was, indeed, not unilateral (although, I would make the case that we are entirely justified had our approach been unilateral).

The coalition forces in March included (hope I didn't miss any--there sure are a lot of them on the list--it's easy to miss one or two):

Western Europe:
United Kingdom
Spain
Portugal
Denmark
Norway
Netherlands
Iceland
Italy

Baltic States:
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania

Central Europe:
Poland
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Hungary

Balkans:
Albania
Macedonia
Romania
Bulgaria
Turkey

Eastern Europe:
Ukraine
Moldova

Asia:
Japan
South Korea
Singapore
Philippines
Afghanistan
Kazakhstan
Uzbekistan
Azerbaijan
Georgia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Solomon Islands
Mongolia
Palau
Tonga
Thailand

North America:
United States of America

South and Central America:
El Salvador
Colombia
Nicaragua
Costa Rica
Dominican Republic
Honduras

Australia
New Zealand

Middle East:
Kuwait

Africa:
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Uganda
Rwanda
Angola

In addition, Slovenia and Croatia were part of the Vilnius Group Statement along with Albania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Romania, and Slovakia, but did not send troops.

Also, it occurs to me that although there is definitely some anger on these boards, and a lot of Bush-hating, I think it would be more apt to describe the Bush supporters' as Kerry-dislikers. There is no vitriolic speech regarding Kerry, although I will admit that, at times, there is some vitriolic speech towards BOTH Bush and Kerry supporters.

I think what's key in your statement is your phrase "beyond our current limitations". That sounds a lot like Jimmy Carter's malaise speech/campaign. I think the Bush supporters don't share that belief. Hmmmm. . .and you call yourself a Utopian?!