Valid Complaint?

[rgf207]

I woke up this morning and came to the dis to see that this thread is still going. It really isn't about $1 coins anymore though. continue. I would like to see if this thread can mutate into something about....giraffes. Can it be done? We'll see

As you were...

 

[eastcarolinafan]

Is *this* the issue you've had with this? The concern that the customer would hold up the line while talking to a manager? Since that's the scenario that has bothered you so much, it seems, my own scenario is that the person would either pay or cancel the order, ask for the manager to meet them over on the side, and go wait there. Or if they've paid, ask for the manager to come to their table. /QUOTE]

Well, no, that is not my concern at all. That is something you must have come up with on your own. I, in fact, WANT the customer in the face of the manager. I DO NOT WANT the customer in the face of the cashier, holding up the line. The cashier is not going to be able to do diddly to help the frustrated customer. The customer has no place at all trying to educate the cashier about currency, that is the MANAGER's job.

Don't like the way a waitress treats you at a restaurant? What is it you are going to do? Are you going to take it upon yourself to escort the waitress away from the table next to you and explain to her how she can better serve the clientele, or are you going to call a manager over and explain the problem to him or her and let the manager pass on your concern?

Mine is just another way to do it, I guess. Maybe there are those people who would rather wait in line while a customer explains to a cashier the error of her ways. Maybe there are cashiers who will actually listen to a customer's explanation of why the cashier should take currency she thinks is fraudulent. And maybe there are customers who -- after considering the explanation of the cashier -- will then be able to pay with the currency in question.

This ends my involvement in a discussion that has now become farcical. It's apparent I am in the minority, and so should just bow out with my tail between my legs.

Consider me chastised and put in my place.

 

[Rip]

Well of course as a manager he would want to educate his employees about currency. That is absolutely reasonable. What is not reasonable is for a cashier to listen to a CUSTOMER try to explain what is and is not acceptable currency while a line forms behind them. That is not the customer's place. It is not the customer's job. What is the customer's job is to pay in currency acceptable to the cashier (especially when that particular customer happens to have that money on him) and move along so others can go about their day.

Couldn't disagree more. It is perfectly reasonable for the customer to do this, and to ask for a manager without stepping out of line and losing his/her spot. Why should the customer in question be forced to lose their rightful place in line just because a cashier doesn't know their own employer's policy? Most people probably don't want to break a $100 for $2 worth of merchandise, and that is perfectly reasonable. If the place has a policy of not accepting cash at all, so be it, but that is obviously not the case here. In this case, the cashier was simply ignorant of the fact that those coins are in fact legal US tender.

Then, of course, when he returns to his room or his home, or wherever, that customer is free to author a 50-page essay to the manager about the cashier's woeful lack of knowledge when it comes to money. That employee can be properly dealt with (by the manager, not the customer) and everybody will be happy after that. That's what should have happened. This man should not have taken it upon himself to "educate" the cashier. He should have taken it upon himself to move along.

He didn't like what the cashier had to say. Happens all the time.

This thread has dragged on far too long now. I am going now to my favorite drinking establishment and drink 14 dirty martinis. I will try to pay for all of them at one time using pennies. I am more than positive they will simply have to accept payment because it is legal tender, after all.

Salud!

Except it wasn't simply that he didn't like what the cashier had to say, the cashier was completely wrong. The other customers will either have to wait their turn (as he did), go to another line, or come back at another time.

 

[SydneyFalco]

I would like to see if this thread can mutate into something about....giraffes. Can it be done? We'll see

Come on. No place takes giraffes. They went out with the gold standard.

Although I did rent two movies from Blockbuster for half a shoelace and a Bonobo monkey.

 

[doconeill]

Come on. No place takes giraffes. They went out with the gold standard.

And just imagine the pockets you'd need. And we're complaining about carrying coin...

 

[jayandstacey]

I thought about you yesterday. I went to my local Speedway and bought a fountaqin drink and pretzels. total: $2.15. I had no cash so I used my card. No problem! I thought about this thread as I made the transaction.

And 99.9% of the time it is no problem.

Now, imagine you're refused, simply because you didn't buy enough.
And imagine you JUST spent $30 with the same store, same card, out at the pump.
And imagine it is a store card you're wanting to use.
And imagine there was no way to know your card would be rejected until you brought your choices to the counter.

Every thinks I'm the jerk - but isn't this silly? And I never blew up or anything, just left the stuff on the counter.

I'm a white, 40ish male. I don't know what discrimination is like, but I imagine that situation's as close as I'll ever get. It really kind of threw me, didn't make me feel good, etc. It didn't become my 'cause' or anything like that, but it was memorable the couple of times it happened.

And the one time it caused the whole station to shut down, well, I didn't feel very bad for the station or owners.

And yes, I'll walk any time it happens again in the future.

 

[jayandstacey]

Come on. No place takes giraffes. They went out with the gold standard.

Although I did rent two movies from Blockbuster for half a shoelace and a Bonobo monkey.

I don't think the thread has mutated much at all. At the root is the question of rights and responsibilities of both the merchant (clerk) and the buyer, specifically around payment.

The clerk made a mistake in the OP's case. But what about when it isn't a mistake? What do merchants HAVE to do? What do customers HAVE to do? What rights to they have, and what is simple good business sense?

It is fairly complex and people have varied opinions.

And true to form, I've often found that complex subjects often return to giraffes. My favorite is Geoffrey, of Toys-R-Us fame. Heck of a merchant, that one. Always takes plenty of my coins and bills, especially this time of year.

 

[jayandstacey]

This ends my involvement in a discussion that has now become farcical. It's apparent I am in the minority, and so should just bow out with my tail between my legs.

Consider me chastised and put in my place.

just walk away, man. You make it sound like you were Davey taking down Goliath.

Sorry, couldn't help it. You know you want to still play!

Actually, I agree with you, but not for the reasons you say.

A customer shouldn't engage with a clerk over conterfeit questions - but this is because if it were MY store, I'd tell the cashier that if they have any counterfiet or foreign currency issues that they IMMEDIATELY call a manager and not engage the customer at all. Not even to say why they are calling the manager. The manager and customer can then solve it 'off to the side' but get the cashier out of the equation.

 

[theatermouse]

I haven't read this whole thread, but as a former CM who worked in the Food & Beverage part of the World, we had a class one afternoon during training at Disney University dealing with money: how to tell what was what & what to accept. Keep in mind this was in 2004, but I remember going over the coins, all coins, even the Sacagewa coins. I also learned a LOT about looking for counterfeit bills, too! I've done a lot of cashiering in my day & handled many types of bills & coins. It just takes a second to look & learn.

 

[eliza61]

I was at the MVMCP on Friday and having a great time. As is usual for my wife and I, as we start to exit the park we stop and buy a rice krispy treat at the shop on main street. My wife used a snack point for hers but I had none left and paid cash. I had only a couple of $100's and about $5 in the new $1 coins. Since it was a $3 item I gave the cast member 3 $1 coins. She spent probably 5 min looking at them and talking with the other girl before rejecting them saying that they only accept "American Money" I tried to explain that it was U.S. Money but it did not good. I was forced to pay with a $100. That she took without a second glance and gave me my $97 in change back.

?

I would probably be more upset with the qualilty of our work force than any thing else.
Perhaps some one should have flip the coin over on the back where it said
the country the currency is from and told the clerk "Reading is fundemental"

Anyway op, Chalk it up to a CM who may have been a little bit of an airhead or was experiencing a brain fart.

I called American express to inform them that I was going to be in France soon and so some charges were going to be in Euros and I kid you not the representative asked me "why are they charging you in Euros"?
Humm perhaps because that's the currency of France.

 

[jayandstacey]

I haven't read this whole thread, but as a former CM who worked in the Food & Beverage part of the World, we had a class one afternoon during training at Disney University dealing with money: how to tell what was what & what to accept. Keep in mind this was in 2004, but I remember going over the coins, all coins, even the Sacagewa coins. I also learned a LOT about looking for counterfeit bills, too! I've done a lot of cashiering in my day & handled many types of bills & coins. It just takes a second to look & learn.

Yeah, and only a small percentage of CMs will handle money. Maybe there have been cuts in the training, or maybe the CM was a fill-in that day, or maybe she looked at the coin wrong...
I would have done the same as the OP (in my gas station examples, I didn't have the cash they required) but would have also 'held' this odd exchange to bring it here for ideas...
All 220+ of them...

 

[jayandstacey]

I called American express to inform them that I was going to be in France soon and so some charges were going to be in Euros and I kid you not the representative asked me "why are they charging you in Euros"?
Humm perhaps because that's the currency of France.

"Cuz charging in cheesesteaks wasn't working too well..."

Are Francs completely gone now? I haven't been to europe in 20 years....

 

[Pecobill]

"Cuz charging in cheesesteaks wasn't working too well..."

Are Francs completely gone now? I haven't been to europe in 20 years....

Every form of European coins are gone except the pound.The UK is still holding on to their dignity and using their own currency.One good thing about the countries coins being retired is that if you have any your going to be able to sell them as collecters items

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Every form of European coins are gone except the pound.The UK is still holding on to their dignity and using their own currency.One good thing about the countries coins being retired is that if you have any your going to be able to sell them as collecters items

WAY but...
That is not correct. The Euro is the currency of : Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain. Also the microstates: Monaco, San Marino, and Vatican City.

Some countries that don't use the Euro: Denmark, Sweden, UK, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway, Poland, and Romania.

Some of the above countries are trying to adopt the Euro, and may do so in the next few years.

Just incase any DISers are planning to take a European vacation any time soon, or will be talking to any Epcot World Showcase cast members about the currencies of Europe. Especially if you plan to tell the folks who work in the Norway pavillion their currency is the Euro. So I suppose I have come around to being somewhat relevent to the original discussion, in a way.

 

[Oz-kateer]

No, no indication of a phase out. The long-term plan may be to phase out bills once the coins are widely accepted - but that isn't exactly going too well, is it?

To compare the relative value of Aussie dollars - can I ask what a typical loaf of sliced sandwich bread costs down under? (In your own currency of course). Ours is about 2 dollars.

Relative value of Aussie dollars? $1 AUD is about 92c US.

A loaf of bread (depending where you buy it and what's in it) costs between $2 and $4 on average. You can pay more for trendy organic style loaves.

On average, prices in the US and in Australia are comparable. Some things are more expensive, some are cheaper. We have similar standards of living.

 

[doconeill]

WAY but...
That is not correct. The Euro is the currency of : Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain. Also the microstates: Monaco, San Marino, and Vatican City.

Some countries that don't use the Euro: Denmark, Sweden, UK, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway, Poland, and Romania.

Some of the above countries are trying to adopt the Euro, and may do so in the next few years.

Just incase any DISers are planning to take a European vacation any time soon, or will be talking to any Epcot World Showcase cast members about the currencies of Europe. Especially if you plan to tell the folks who work in the Norway pavillion their currency is the Euro. So I suppose I have come around to being somewhat relevent to the original discussion, in a way.

Just as an FYI to the above, all EU countries except UK and Denmark (who negotiated exemptions in the original EU agreements) are obliged to adopt the Euro as their currency once certain requirements are met. Most of the remaining countries are relatively new to the process and haven't done it yet.

 

[jayandstacey]

Relative value of Aussie dollars? $1 AUD is about 92c US.

A loaf of bread (depending where you buy it and what's in it) costs between $2 and $4 on average. You can pay more for trendy organic style loaves.

On average, prices in the US and in Australia are comparable. Some things are more expensive, some are cheaper. We have similar standards of living.

Sounds good. I wasn't seeking a comparison of standards of living, rather of just what a dollar meant in each country.

Had a loaf of bread cost, say, $12... Then one could make the case that your $1 coins would be used roughly like our $.25 coins. That is to say that for a given thing (like a loaf of bread) you would pull out a bill and pay - as we do now - and might get a little change in coins - as we do now.

But your money is pretty much on the same level as ours, yet you successfully converted to coins. Any flak? Citzen unrest? Organized movements? Pillaging?

Not trying to be political on this side...but I swear sometimes it seems the best way to get American citizens to act and do something different - is when they are threatened with a change that might force them to act or do something different. We 'love us some status quo'!

 

[tony67]

But your money is pretty much on the same level as ours, yet you successfully converted to coins. Any flak? Citzen unrest? Organized movements? Pillaging?

In Ireland converting from pound notes to pound coins was not too big a deal, but people did not like it.
They changed very quickly though. It was not an optional thing like it is here.
The worst part of it was after a night out you would have 10 -15 pounds in coins.

The conversion from Pounds to Euros was another story, especially in Ireland.
Shops really took advantage of the switch and prices really seemed to climb after that.
Part of this may have been related to the initial weakness of the Euro (it was worth less than the dollar (.89), now it’s worth $1.50).
Problem is when the Euro got stronger prices did not go down in relation.

People there did not really notice since they were making more.

I noticed a lot more since I was only going home once or twice a year.

To put it in simple perspective a pint of Guinness in Dublin costs the same as a pint of Guinness in the US. The Guinness in Dublin is made in the same factory as the draft Guinness in the US. We have the added expense of shipping it and storing it and distribution across the US. How can it cost the same?

Now that things are bad they relize just how much they were taken advantage of.
Rip-off Ireland is a common term now when you discuss prices in Ireland.
A weekend in Berlin (including flights) is cheaper than a weekend in Ireland.

People who live near the border go to the north to do shopping because it is cheaper. (Northern Ireland did not convert to the Euro they are on the Sterling)

 

[jayandstacey]

Now that things are bad they relize just how much they were taken advantage of.
Rip-off Ireland is a common term now when you discuss prices in Ireland.
A weekend in Berlin (including flights) is cheaper than a weekend in Ireland.

How were they taken advantage of? I'm not disagreeing with you, just curious.

I understood the "Celtic Tiger" economy took off and was the rock star in Europe - has it turned back for earth? Or is it still OK but the euro switch has the country at a disadvantage?

I'd think that one of the adverse side effects of a common currency is an amplification of differences in the economies. So for instance, in the old days Germany might offer better travel deals driven by their local supply/demand and the currency fluctuations. A visitor won't know the difference, they'll just think that their british pound must be strong vs. the deutschmark, and thus the rooms seem cheap.

Today, euros are euros. And there's no currency translation to get lost in - so a hotel costs $200 in Dublin and $100 in Berlin - and the natural conclusion is that Dublin hoteliers are ripping people off.

The reality is that local supply and demand are driving the prices and the Dubliners are charging what they can while the Berliners are doing the same.

 

[tony67]

Since I am not on the ground year round much if this is my opinion.
Much comes from discussion with my family and friends that are there year round as well as some small business owners.
We are getting off topic, but since you did ask..

How were they taken advantage of? I'm not disagreeing with you, just curious.

For a year before the changeover everything was priced in Euros and Pounds.
After the changeover thing were only priced and Euros and seemed to go up unexplainably.
Some of this could be related to higher wages coinciding with the economy taking off, but the wages had already started to climb before the changeover.
Prices in supermarket got crazy IMO.
Most people feel that the shop owners took advantage of them.


One recent example that comes to mind is that some of the clothing shops have price tags in Euros and Sterling because they sold the items in the north as well as the Republic. It came to light that that the items where much cheaper in sterling (30-40%) so they started cutting off the part of the tag that had the price in sterling.

I understood the "Celtic Tiger" economy took off and was the rock star in Europe - has it turned back for earth?

Crashed back to earth is more like it. Just one example, about 400 showed up for 40 jobs at the new McDonalds in Ennis. Many had college degrees and had previously been making a nice living.
Many people are taking pay cuts just to keep their jobs, but still have large mortgages on houses that have dropped over 30% in value. (same as the US I Know)
Many of the good jobs have gone to other countries. Many of the factory jobs have gone to Poland for example.

Or is it still OK but the euro switch has the country at a disadvantage?

I don't think that it has it at a disadvantage and in the end Ireland made out well thanks to the EU. Lots of road works and the such.
All that being said as a country it is much harder to react.
A country can no longer put in programs in place that attract business.
For example one of the things that helped create the Celtic tiger were the tax deals for business coming to Ireland. This attracted Microsoft as well as Dell. That got some sweet deals for about 10 years and then left or downsized.
With the EU I do not think they have as much, if any, flexibility.

You also can't do things to improve you exchange rate to attract foreign visitors for example. It's tough to go back to Ireland to visit with the current Exchange rate on top of how expensive things are.

I'd think that one of the adverse side effects of a common currency is an amplification of differences in the economies. So for instance, in the old days Germany might offer better travel deals driven by their local supply/demand and the currency fluctuations. A visitor won't know the difference, they'll just think that their british pound must be strong vs. the deutschmark, and thus the rooms seem cheap.

Today, euros are euros. And there's no currency translation to get lost in - so a hotel costs $200 in Dublin and $100 in Berlin - and the natural conclusion is that Dublin hoteliers are ripping people off.

The reality is that local supply and demand are driving the prices and the Dubliners are charging what they can while the Berliners are doing the same.

This is a tough one to quantify for some of the reasons you mention.
I think overall that people in Ireland do feel like they were being ripped off.
Obviously wages are (were) higher in Ireland so things will cost more.
The issue is how much more a simple item can cost.
They are now trying to lower the minimum wage because it had gotten to high in some peoples opinion.

In Berlin a nice meal can be under 15 Euros per person. (Several types of pork with sides and a beer with a 1 Euro Tip)
In Ireland a Chinese Takeaway can cost 15 Euro. A pizza 18 Euro.
Berlin is not the best example since things are much cheaper there then other parts of Europe.
Still a weekend in Germany\France\Italy or Austria at a nice hotel is less expensive than a weekend in a below average hotel in Ireland in my experience. I am not even talking about Dublin. Dublin is one of the most expense (top 25) cities in the world.
I am always surprised at how much better the values are on the continent.
The cheap airfare also helps. Three round trip tickets to Venice from Shannon cost me about $100 Euro.


When I was there over the summer things were getting better.
Supermarkets are now competing with better prices.

Here is an article in the Irish Times on how this is changing now that the Irish are becoming cost conscious:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2009/0815/1224252580974.html

Some points from that article.
*In 2005, the Consumer Strategy Report (CSR) commissioned by the government found that Ireland was the dearest country in the euro zone for food, soft drinks, tobacco and rent, and the second most expensive for alcohol, restaurants and pubs.
*A CSO report said Ireland had the second-highest prices in Europe, at over 25 per cent more than the EU average (for 2007 and 2008).
*The booming economy taught us all the price of everything and the value of nothing.