Using Borrowed points then modifying booking

[macman123]

Quick one here.

Waiting for resale points to load on the contract, but I want to make a booking for Sept 2021, my UY is August.

I don't have enough Aug 2021 points for booking.

I can do this if I borrow some future Aug 2022 points.

If I do this and cancel, do the Aug 2022 points get returned to Aug 2022 UY?

If I make the reservation using Aug 2022 points, then once my resale contract gets added modify booking - can I change the contracts used so its my newly added resale points for Aug 2021 UY?

If yes, do the borrowed points go back to Aug 22?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sandisw]

Borrowing is a final transaction. Once borrowed, they stay in that UY.

While DVC has temporarily changed and is allowing borrowed points to go back, it only happens when there is a complete cancellation. It can change at anytime so I would not borrow expecting it.

But, even with the policy, as long as you have the reservation, it will use those borrowed points before any 2021UY points that get loaded from the new resale contract.

For example, I had to recently borrow 5 points for a June trip. Things got adjusted and a waitlist came through. There is no way now to get those back because they are used. I do have 5 more points to bank, but the borrowed points are stuck.

 

[macman123]

Thanks for that. So, if I used BLT points for the contract in the Aug 2021 UY for the Sept 21 booking and when my SSR contracts are added, can I then go and change the booking to use the SSR contract points instead and save the BLT points?

 

[Sandisw]

Thanks for that. So, if I used BLT points for the contract in the Aug 2021 UY for the Sept 21 booking and when my SSR contracts are added, can I then go and change the booking to use the SSR contract points instead and save the BLT points?

Since you’d be in the 7 month window when making the reservation, then it should allow you to change contracts for booking.

If there are enough SSR points to cover the entire thing without having to use any BLT, it should free up the borrowed points as well.

You’d still be taking a chance with any borrowed points, though because if by the time you get those points borrowing rules are back, they’d be stuck.

 

[macman123]

Since you’d be in the 7 month window when making the reservation, then it should allow you to change contracts for booking.

If there are enough SSR points to cover the entire thing without having to use any BLT, it should free up the borrowed points as well.

You’d still be taking a chance with any borrowed points, though because if by the time you get those points borrowing rules are back, they’d be stuck.

Thanks!

 

[CastAStone]

How on earth did you run out of points? Don’t you have like 2000?

 

[macman123]

How on earth did you run out of points? Don’t you have like 2000?

I do, but am waiting for 150, 150, 200 and 100 point contracts points to be loaded. They show up, but 0 points.

 

[HappyDisneyWife]

I was recently wondering the exact same thing (as I wait for a new contract’s points), bc of the temporary change allowing borrowed points to be put back. Thanks for the clarification @Sandisw!

 

[HappyDisneyWife]

If I make the reservation using Aug 2022 points, then once my resale contract gets added modify booking - can I change the contracts used so its my newly added resale points for Aug 2021 UY?

If yes, do the borrowed points go back to Aug 22?

I was just reading the “Home Resort Rules & Regulations” document on the DVC website, and was shocked to see a direct answer to this question! & I was even more shocked that it is specifically allowed!!

Copied & pasted directly from the rules & regs-

5.b. Borrowing Home Resort Vacation Points. A Club Member may Borrow under the following rules:
1) Club Members may Borrow up to one hundred percent (100%) of their allotted Home Resort Vacation Points from their next succeeding Use Year to secure a reservation in the immediately preceding Use Year.
2) Once Borrowed, Home Resort Vacation Points cannot be returned to their original Use Year and will expire if not used by the end of the Use Year into which they were Borrowed. However, if a Club Member purchases an additional Ownership Interest after Borrowing Home Resort Vacation Points, that Club Member may substitute newly allocated Home Resort Vacation Points of a current Use Year for the Borrowed Home Resort Vacation Points that were used toward a future reservation, and the Borrowed Home Resort Vacation Points will be returned to their original Use Year.

Borrowing is a final transaction. Once borrowed, they stay in that UY.

5.e. No Retrieval of Banked or Borrowed Home Resort Vacation Points. Once Home Resort Vacation Points have been Banked or Borrowed, they may not be returned to their original Use Year except as noted in section 5.b.2) of this Article.

One lingering question remains. Must the new points be the same “home” (not just same membership/UY) as the borrowed points? I wonder this because it only speaks of the exception when speaking of HRV Points & it never specifically mentions DVC Points. Or since it doesn’t specifically preclude DVC points in general, can it be assumed that any new purchase will qualify (so long as it’s within the same membership/UY)?

6.b. Club Members with Ownership Interests at Multiple DVC Resorts.
2) If a Club Member requests a Home Resort reservation during the Home Resort Priority Period and the reservation requires more Home Resort Vacation Points than the Club Member has available in that particular Home Resort, he or she may Borrow Home Resort Vacation Points from that particular Home Resort’s next Use Year, subject to all Borrowing rules. Or, at the end of that particular DVC Resort’s Home Priority Period, Club Members may use their Home Resort Vacation Points from other DVC Resorts as DVC Vacation Points to complete the reservation.
3) Club Members cannot apply Home Resort Vacation Points from one DVC Resort as DVC Vacation Points to any other DVC Resort during the destination DVC Resort’s Home Priority Period.

 

[Sandisw]

I was just reading the “Home Resort Rules & Regulations” document on the DVC website, and was shocked to see a direct answer to this question! & I was even more shocked that it is specifically allowed!!

Copied & pasted directly from the rules & regs-

5.b. Borrowing Home Resort Vacation Points. A Club Member may Borrow under the following rules:
1) Club Members may Borrow up to one hundred percent (100%) of their allotted Home Resort Vacation Points from their next succeeding Use Year to secure a reservation in the immediately preceding Use Year.
2) Once Borrowed, Home Resort Vacation Points cannot be returned to their original Use Year and will expire if not used by the end of the Use Year into which they were Borrowed. However, if a Club Member purchases an additional Ownership Interest after Borrowing Home Resort Vacation Points, that Club Member may substitute newly allocated Home Resort Vacation Points of a current Use Year for the Borrowed Home Resort Vacation Points that were used toward a future reservation, and the Borrowed Home Resort Vacation Points will be returned to their original Use Year.

5.e. No Retrieval of Banked or Borrowed Home Resort Vacation Points. Once Home Resort Vacation Points have been Banked or Borrowed, they may not be returned to their original Use Year except as noted in section 5.b.2) of this Article.

One lingering question remains. Must the new points be the same “home” (not just same membership/UY) as the borrowed points? I wonder this because it only speaks of the exception when speaking of HRV Points & it never specifically mentions DVC Points. Or since it doesn’t specifically preclude DVC points in general, can it be assumed that any new purchase will qualify (so long as it’s within the same membership/UY)?

6.b. Club Members with Ownership Interests at Multiple DVC Resorts.
2) If a Club Member requests a Home Resort reservation during the Home Resort Priority Period and the reservation requires more Home Resort Vacation Points than the Club Member has available in that particular Home Resort, he or she may Borrow Home Resort Vacation Points from that particular Home Resort’s next Use Year, subject to all Borrowing rules. Or, at the end of that particular DVC Resort’s Home Priority Period, Club Members may use their Home Resort Vacation Points from other DVC Resorts as DVC Vacation Points to complete the reservation.
3) Club Members cannot apply Home Resort Vacation Points from one DVC Resort as DVC Vacation Points to any other DVC Resort during the destination DVC Resort’s Home Priority Period.

When you buy new points from DVD...does not apply to resale..that is the only time in normal situations that borrowed points are returned, because you didn’t have the new points you just purchased. But, it is only at the time of purchase, not simply by owning points.

But, absent that, borrowing is final unless DVC changes the rules. That document is definitely what allows them to change banking and borrowing rules to meet the needs of the membership as a whole,

 

[HappyDisneyWife]

When you buy new points from DVD...does not apply to resale..that is the only time in normal situations that borrowed points are returned, because you didn’t have the new points you just purchased. But, it is only at the time of purchase, not simply by owning points.

But, absent that, borrowing is final unless DVC changes the rules. That document is definitely what allows them to change banking and borrowing rules to meet the needs of the membership as a whole,

If DVD intended anything to be for a specific set of owners, it must be clearly defined as such. In my understanding, the R&Reg’s governs all owners. I searched all throughout that document, plus the Membership Extras Acknowledgment and Disclosure Statement, and no where did it list the exception from 5.b.2) in the R&Reg’s as being a membership extra perk. It even states:

5.c. Banking and Borrowing Limitations.
1) To be eligible to participate in Banking and Borrowing, Club Members must be current on their Annual Dues, other sums due an Association, monthly loan payments (if applicable), and any other outstanding balances, including fees associated with any exchange programs, miscellaneous services booked by Member Services in connection with Club Member reservations, and any incidental charges or balances due in relation to stays reserved through the Club’s central reservation system.


If they (in practice) do as you suggest, they would have no legal grounds to do so.

 

[Sandisw]

If DVD intended anything to be for a specific set of owners, it must be clearly defined as such. In my understanding, the R&Reg’s governs all owners. I searched all throughout that document, plus the Membership Extras Acknowledgment and Disclosure Statement, and no where did it list the exception from 5.b.2) in the R&Reg’s as being a membership extra perk. It even states:

5.c. Banking and Borrowing Limitations.
1) To be eligible to participate in Banking and Borrowing, Club Members must be current on their Annual Dues, other sums due an Association, monthly loan payments (if applicable), and any other outstanding balances, including fees associated with any exchange programs, miscellaneous services booked by Member Services in connection with Club Member reservations, and any incidental charges or balances due in relation to stays reserved through the Club’s central reservation system.


If they (in practice) do as you suggest, they would have no legal grounds to do so.

It is defined as purchasing a new ownership interest. So I guess one would have to argue that purchasing from a private individual still qualifies. I know in practice, it is for direct purchases. So, if that is the intent, I am sure that the language would and can change if not clear.

 

[HappyDisneyWife]

It is defined as purchasing a new ownership interest. So I guess one would have to argue that purchasing from a private individual still qualifies. I know in practice, it is for direct purchases. So, if that is the intent, I am sure that the language would and can change if not clear.

Any purchase (using their own definitions) would most certainly qualify, so it’s quite troubling that you’ve seen them practicing differently. Grrr. I wish they would just be more upfront and honest- that seems pretty shady to me. I’m definitely not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one, but I would think that would have to be a pretty easy win for the resale buyer.

Thanks, as always, for sharing your experiences.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I recently had the experience of MS moving points around for me as I was on the phone modifying a reservation. I had two resale contracts that just posted and the CM returned borrowed points to a contract and used the oldest points from one of the new contracts (I have four OKW contracts) for the modification. It was a nice surprise!

 

[HappyDisneyWife]

I recently had the experience of MS moving points around for me as I was on the phone modifying a reservation. I had two resale contracts that just posted and the CM returned borrowed points to a contract and used the oldest points from one of the new contracts (I have four OKW contracts) for the modification. It was a nice surprise!

I am so glad to hear that! That’s what absolutely should have been done for you. Yay!!

 

[CmdrThor]

I'll be testing this out shortly, though I am not sure how valid of a test it will be since borrowed points are being returned to their use year anyways. I've borrowed 171 of my 2022 points already and just closed on 211 SSR points which has the full 2021 points plus 159 points banked from 2020. I'm hoping to restore as many of my borrowed points as possible by using the SSR points. A few may have been borrowed with 11 month priority so those will be stuck, but I'll at least be able to get all those banked points used and have a few left over for another 2021 reservation.

 

[Sandisw]

I'll be testing this out shortly, though I am not sure how valid of a test it will be since borrowed points are being returned to their use year anyways. I've borrowed 171 of my 2022 points already and just closed on 211 SSR points which has the full 2021 points plus 159 points banked from 2020. I'm hoping to restore as many of my borrowed points as possible by using the SSR points. A few may have been borrowed with 11 month priority so those will be stuck, but I'll at least be able to get all those banked points used and have a few left over for another 2021 reservation.

Yes. But it certainly is something that in practice has been only for direct purchases but then again, some language may allow people to force the issue.

 

[MICKIMINI]

Without me asking, DVC restored borrowed BRV points completely this week. It has happened now with multiple contracts in two UY's as I'm adjusting our fall vacation.

 

[Sandisw]

Without me asking, DVC restored borrowed BRV points completely this week. It has happened now with multiple contracts in two UY's as I'm adjusting our fall vacation.

This has been great but they announced this will end April 30th. So just keep that in mind if you make further adjustments.

 

[HappyDisneyWife]

Interestingly, I just asked this when talking to MS this morning, and I was given a new, very odd answer... they said the “unborrowing” would be dependent upon availability for held booking. Basically, if the room being held with borrowed points can be booked with newly purchased points after they load- they won’t put the borrowed points back. They’ll only put them back if the booking is no longer available and those rooms were REQUIRED to be held prior to new points loading. ‼

I politely told them that was not what the rules & reg’s states. There are NO stipulations regarding room availability. He totally agreed, but said that’s what the people he called told him. ⁉ There was zero mention of direct vs resale (except for the acknowledgment that my points were resale)... he actually made it very clear that when making the booking with said borrowed points, there would be a note attached to the res with the stipulation that those points get put back as soon as newly purchased (resale) points are finally loaded.

So strange. I kindly told him I wasn’t willing to risk these unwritten rules messing with my future plans & to please ask the uppers to make the rules & reg’s clear... and then follow them.