use short term disability for doctor's visit

[fac]

there is no doubt that she needs to find a new job.
I always told people (and her) that grass is not always greener on the other side, but after hearing from her and the more I wrote about it, I just think that she should begin looking for other jobs.

For people's comments on overtime etc... it is just a different industry. As I said earlier, she works a lot of overtime and very often she found out on the day of the work. Note that it is "expected" for her type of work, but many places I have seen, the employee/employer can work around it, it is also "expected" as well. She finishes her work at 6, and even she could leave early, it means that the PT would have to be at 6:30, but how do you deal with cancellation with less than 24 hours notice and how many times can you do it?

Anyway, the day that triggered her thinking was that she used the sick day for 2 doctors visits. I deleted the long version, she was supposed to be in early for one week, but she planned to take a day off, hence she asked whether anyone could take her week (2 to 4 days) to be in early (it is common practice, not really a burden), a guy offered to take her week, but then the man also asked whether anyone would take his week because he had a vacation scheduled. She offered to take his week minus Friday as she planned to use the Friday to see an ophthalmologist which she has put off for nearly 5 months. The man agreed and asked his manager and manager's manager whether it was okay. All agreed and everyone was cc-ed in the mail. The man didn't find anyone to cover for the Friday.

During the week and in particular the Thursday before her "sick day", she reminded her manager that she wouldn't be going in on Friday. As no one had any issues with her taking Friday off, she also added the podiatrist appointment as her foot had been hurting for more than a week (it was not an emergency and she didn't treat it as is). On Friday, at around 8:30 am, she began following up some work from home and was about to send the mail for the sick day (she was told she could only ask for it on the day), but her manager sent a mail to her but cc-ed to her manager's manager and another higher up, asking her whether she planned to go in for work (as if she decided to just not showing up). She was upset and had a meeting with her manager and manager's manager to discuss it as a grown up that it was not really her problem and totally unnecessary for her manager to cc to the whole word at 8:30 am as she was supposed to work at 9:00 am if she were to work. Her manager insisted that it was her problem despite she knew about the mail, my friend printed out the mail and showed both managers, then they changed the blame to that she should let them know early, she pointed it she did, then they said she should send out the mail at 7:30 and told her sick day should not be used for doctor's visits. When all were clear, they never told the man that he should have found someone to cover for his Friday.

I am sorry to find out that many people in this forum accepted the fact that an employee does not need to be treated with respect. Even when I hired people, my manager made sure I understood that I had to impress people as we wanted the ability to pick the right people.

Note that in her case, she didn't have to let them know early, she could have called in sick but went to see the doctor.

 

[kathie859]

I don't think anyone has encouraged the thought that she be treated with disrespect; however, I think it's unrealistic to believe that a company, or a manager or co-workers, for that matter---should be thrilled to death that your friend requires so much time off to deal with so many various medical issues. Frankly, if I worked with her, I'd think she was making up half the stuff. And I'm generally a very "live and let live" sort of person.

 

[msjprincess]

there is no doubt that she needs to find a new job.
I always told people (and her) that grass is not always greener on the other side, but after hearing from her and the more I wrote about it, I just think that she should begin looking for other jobs.

For people's comments on overtime etc... it is just a different industry. As I said earlier, she works a lot of overtime and very often she found out on the day of the work. Note that it is "expected" for her type of work, but many places I have seen, the employee/employer can work around it, it is also "expected" as well. She finishes her work at 6, and even she could leave early, it means that the PT would have to be at 6:30, but how do you deal with cancellation with less than 24 hours notice and how many times can you do it?

Anyway, the day that triggered her thinking was that she used the sick day for 2 doctors visits. I deleted the long version, she was supposed to be in early for one week, but she planned to take a day off, hence she asked whether anyone could take her week (2 to 4 days) to be in early (it is common practice, not really a burden), a guy offered to take her week, but then the man also asked whether anyone would take his week because he had a vacation scheduled. She offered to take his week minus Friday as she planned to use the Friday to see an ophthalmologist which she has put off for nearly 5 months. The man agreed and asked his manager and manager's manager whether it was okay. All agreed and everyone was cc-ed in the mail. The man didn't find anyone to cover for the Friday.

During the week and in particular the Thursday before her "sick day", she reminded her manager that she wouldn't be going in on Friday. As no one had any issues with her taking Friday off, she also added the podiatrist appointment as her foot had been hurting for more than a week (it was not an emergency and she didn't treat it as is). On Friday, at around 8:30 am, she began following up some work from home and was about to send the mail for the sick day (she was told she could only ask for it on the day), but her manager sent a mail to her but cc-ed to her manager's manager and another higher up, asking her whether she planned to go in for work (as if she decided to just not showing up). She was upset and had a meeting with her manager and manager's manager to discuss it as a grown up that it was not really her problem and totally unnecessary for her manager to cc to the whole word at 8:30 am as she was supposed to work at 9:00 am if she were to work. Her manager insisted that it was her problem despite she knew about the mail, my friend printed out the mail and showed both managers, then they changed the blame to that she should let them know early, she pointed it she did, then they said she should send out the mail at 7:30 and told her sick day should not be used for doctor's visits. When all were clear, they never told the man that he should have found someone to cover for his Friday.

I am sorry to find out that many people in this forum accepted the fact that an employee does not need to be treated with respect. Even when I hired people, my manager made sure I understood that I had to impress people as we wanted the ability to pick the right people.

Note that in her case, she didn't have to let them know early, she could have called in sick but went to see the doctor.

I'm confused. Did her manager tell her beforehand that she was allowed to use a sick day but then changed her mind?

 

[sam_gordon]

I am sorry to find out that many people in this forum accepted the fact that an employee does not need to be treated with respect. Even when I hired people, my manager made sure I understood that I had to impress people as we wanted the ability to pick the right people.

Can you please point out where ANYONE has said an employee shouldn't be treated with respect?

IMO, expecting someone to be at work is not disrespectful. Each company can choose how they handle "overtime". As pointed out, an "exempt" employee is not eligible for overtime. So just because she works 9 hours one day or 50 hours in a week does not mean she can take the "extra" time off at some point.

She needs to find out what her company's policies are regarding sick time, vacation time, and comp time. Then she needs to follow them. It doesn't matter if 1000 other employers offer comp time and flexible schedules for employees. She needs to follow HER companies policies or find another job.

From what's been posted, it doesn't not seem FMLA is an option. So she needs to find other options. Period.

 

[npmommie]

What kind of work does she do? I think someone asked earlier but you didnt say. Unless i missed it.

 

[Ceila]

OP, it's honestly a bit hard to follow your posts, but I'm trying. Nobody ever suggested that employees should accept being treated with disrespect. However, what you and your friend seem to consider as disrespect appears to differ from what the rest of us think. Being required to follow a company's leave policies and being expected to schedule doctor's appointments outside of normal work hours is not disrespectful.

Now, how the manager handled the recent Friday off may not have been the best, but if your friend has made it a habit of taking time off here and there for appointments, then I can see where the manager may have wanted to document her communication with your friend with her superiors, hence the need to CC others. I strongly suggest that instead of seeking advice from people on the Dis through you, your friend should contact her HR department to clarify how and when she can use her sick time, and go from there. And, if I may ask, you do seem to know an awful lot about the details, and you seem very invested in this...are you really the friend?

 

[bittybabygrower]

The bottom line comes down to this: you can not have a hundred different appointments and expect to be given those days off our always come in late. Unless she has chronic back problems or brittle diabetes she most likely is not eligible for FMLA. She needs to get her human resources hand book out and look up the policies regarding all this.

No one is saying that she is being disrespected but it sounds more like they are tiring of covering for her. When she took on this job she knew the responsibilities and if anyone promised her anything she should have gotten it in writing. Where I work you can have 2 hours off without penalty for doctor's appointments during work. But this is only 3 times per year. Has she looked into having all her doctors thru a major medical center? They tend to have more outpatient facilities and offer longer hours and weekends several times per month. She needs to be proactive and figure this out or either quit or face getting fired.

 

[jodifla]

I have to agree with the other posters. When people are hired to work, their bosses want them there, on time, day after day.

The kind of favors this employee wants is typically only given to a longtime worker with a proven track record, whose outstanding performance over the long haul has made her manager and other bosses understand that they'd rather have her when she can be there vs. somebody else who can do the hours, but not the job at the highest level.

 

[Arielle22]

I am a HR Mgr. If an employee came to me asking about how to use sick time, I would give them our policy but then refer them back to their manager. It is not HR's responsibility to manage the employee, it is the Manager's job.

OP, your friend's manager may be tired of dealing with her requests for time off. As other posters have said, exempt employees don't accumulate overtime. They may work outside their normal hours but it isn't overtime and nothing is owed to that employee other than her salary.

It sounds like she wants to find a way around her manager's decision. That type of situation never works out well for the employee.

She should keep her head down and try to group her appointments into vacation days so she doesn't run into problems before she can find another positin.

 

[msjprincess]

I have to agree with the other posters. When people are hired to work, their bosses want them there, on time, day after day.

The kind of favors this employee wants is typically only given to a longtime worker with a proven track record, whose outstanding performance over the long haul has made her manager and other bosses understand that they'd rather have her when she can be there vs. somebody else who can do the hours, but not the job at the highest level.

If I were her manager I'd be thinking if she's asking for so much time off as a new hire what the heck is going to be asking for a couple of years down the road.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

I am sorry your friend is going through this. I don't blame her employers though. While offering flex time is a nice option, companies and managers do not have to allow it if they don't want to. Your friend needs to either find doctors with more hours or she needs to find a different job, probably something part time.

 

[disfan07]

Most places require you to use your sick PTO time to cover FMLA. And routine appoints such as dentist, mammography, Ect are not covered under FMLA. You have to have a qualifying illness that requires you to be out a certain number of days. You can have intermittent FMLA buy like I said you have to have a qualifying illness.

It sounds like she needs to cluster all her appointments and many places so have appointments on weekends. I don't think the employer is being unreasonable. She was hired to do a certain job and if she can't fulfill the obligation, she needs to find another job or see if she can go part time.

Clustering is what I do. I have to manage 11 doctors (primary, GYN, derm, allergist, pulm, cardio, sleep, rheum, neuro, GI, psych). I am in school full time and while I get disability accomodations, I still have to manage my time wisely. I go to school until 9AM on Fridays and have appointments scheduled usually from 11-6 on Fridays. Next Friday, my first week of school, I have allergist at 11:15, cardio at 12:30, rheum at 1:15, derm at 2:20, B12 injection at 3:10 and therapy from 4-6. It's not ideal and it's stressful but I think of school as my job and I arrange my schedule around it. Even with my situation and my accomodations I get, I feel like I'm taking advantage of it if I expect accomodations too often. I save the use of accomodations for surgeries and hospital stays.

If I can somehow manage to figure out how to deal with this at 23, she should be able to figure this out as well.

 

[morgan98]

I have been a long time lurker, but rarely post. This thread, however, has made me want to say something.

First of all, I question whether this is your "friend", as you know way too many details. Secondly, I am confused as to the whole new job/new employee concept. I thought at one point you said she has worked at this job almost a year, yet she is still using the excuse that she told them upon hiring that she had a few doctor's appointments? I would have thought that excuse may have covered a dental or doctor's appointment 11 months ago. Multiple ongoing appointments over a year are a different story.

Also, your "friend' keeps mentioning the hour long communte and the doctors not being near the employer. This is 100% your friend's burden, not the employer's. What I mean by that is yes, the friend may have to use all of her vacation time for doctors appointments if she is so inflexible and the result is that she cannot vacation with her family. Most jobs require core hours. What past employers let her do with regards to comp time has no bearing on her current employment.

This really has nothing to do with the employer not valuing her. It has to do with her carrying her share of the workload and meeting job expectations. Being the one to alway be call off and using vacation at the last minute does not show that you friend is committed to her job.

I wish your friend luck as I think she will be needing it...

 

[Bob NC]

I am sorry to find out that many people in this forum accepted the fact that an employee does not need to be treated with respect.

This is what you are taking away from this thread?

 

[mdsoccermom]

Frankly, I am disturbed at the level of detail you know about this "friend" and that you are putting it out there in public.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Op, your friend seems to be the one showing little respect for her company, manager and fellow employees. If the hours and commute do not work for her, she needs to find a new job.

 

[msjprincess]

I have been a long time lurker, but rarely post. This thread, however, has made me want to say something.

First of all, I question whether this is your "friend", as you know way too many details. Secondly, I am confused as to the whole new job/new employee concept. I thought at one point you said she has worked at this job almost a year, yet she is still using the excuse that she told them upon hiring that she had a few doctor's appointments? I would have thought that excuse may have covered a dental or doctor's appointment 11 months ago. Multiple ongoing appointments over a year are a different story.

Also, your "friend' keeps mentioning the hour long communte and the doctors not being near the employer. This is 100% your friend's burden, not the employer's. What I mean by that is yes, the friend may have to use all of her vacation time for doctors appointments if she is so inflexible and the result is that she cannot vacation with her family. Most jobs require core hours. What past employers let her do with regards to comp time has no bearing on her current employment.

This really has nothing to do with the employer not valuing her. It has to do with her carrying her share of the workload and meeting job expectations. Being the one to alway be call off and using vacation at the last minute does not show that you friend is committed to her job.

I wish your friend luck as I think she will be needing it...

I missed that until you posted it. I see now that the OP says the friend has been working there for over a year.

When I read the OP I thought these were appointments that she made before she started the job. Obviously she didn't make these appointments over a year ago. So she just continues to make appointments during working hours?

 

[kamik86]

I'm kind of mystified why an EXEMPT employee would have any duties that would need "covering". What does the job entail? Exempt positions are supposed to be managerial or special knowledge jobs.

If the OP's friend is doing grunt work requiring "covering", she's might be misclassified, possibly illegally, by her company. Really curious on this one.

This may have been answered already
I am an exempt employee (Engineer and need a special certification for my job on top of that) however if myself or my coworkers are out, have another meeting, etc we have meetings that still need to be covered. Someone from my company needs to be at the weekly meeting between all those working our project.

When our contracts person is out we have another one cover because you can't wait to get the contracts letters out, they are very time sensitive. Actually I can't think of any job that doens't take some covering. Now if your leaving a few hours early and making them up your probably ok as far as deadlines go, but if your meetings fall on the same time as the appointment someone is covering.

 

[tasha99]

I am surprised the op's friend can't use sick days for that. Where I work, we can use sick leave for doctor appts, even if they are family member's appointments.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

thank you.
She is exempt. she can't see most of the doctors on weekends or after work. Work is nearly an hour from home, she works 9 to 6 and had tried to leave an hour early one day and still could not make the 6:30 pm appointment due to after hour traffic. Her manager does not like her to take extended time for lunch as no one in her group takes lunch break, they eat in their cubicles.
yes, she is capable of working. She is in NJ too.

She has type 2 diabetes, she sees an endocrinologist, a regular doctor, she has back pain, and has physical therapy, physical therapy does have Saturday schedule, but she can't take the weekday schedule, hence she has stopped physical therapy. She has regular check up, then mammography. she has not been taking all of them. Then there is the dentist appointments. Say in the last 10 days, she had 2 different minor surgeries, but it took her 4 days, including follow up visits and taking off the stitches, and she used her vacation days.

The work place does offer STD and LTD

She still plans to take the vacation (otherwise it will be punishing her family), therefore she does not want to choose taking vacation or seeing doctor. She is thinking of using part of her vacation time for vacation, but if she were to use vacation time to see the doctors, she will likely using up her vacation time mid year.

Therefore it seems that FMLA is the only option, right? I will suggest her to look into it.
She can afford not getting paid while on FMLA.
She will be looking for another job, but with the economy now, she is not optimistic she will get anything soon.

Honestly, I was shocked when I found out that her manager wasn't happy when she asked to leave early to see doctors or go in an hour late but she offered to stay late.. The woman, her manager, was not happy when she took her vacation days. I think her manager was just mean, her office offered flu shot, but she has to go to another site which as 10 minutes away for the shot, she scheduled to go during lunch, she told her manager, the woman was not happy and asked her to go to an office 30 minutes away, so that she could "spend the day" in that office and have her work done. (In the closer office, there was no office space for her to "work", the extra 30 minutes mean that my friend had to go to office earlier so that she still be on time).

I searched whether this topic has been discussed and found an old thread on "loyalty" to the company. For this type of manager, why bother to be loyal.

Your friend can try to apply for FMLA for her diabetes. This way all doctor appointments related to that condition will be covered (endocrinologist, foot, dentist, etc.). She will have to have the paperwork filled out by her diabetes doctor.

What will not be covered under FMLA is PT sessions, mammograms, etc.

FMLA is not paid leave.

I have FMLA for my mother and I use my sick and vacation time for it.

I am really surprised that your friend cannot find any doctors or dentists with evening and weekend hours in NJ. If she is anywhere near the the Short Hills/Livingston area I can give some recommendations for both.