Urgent Poll - would you still book the Dining Plan if gratuity is not included?

[calypso*a*go-go]

LBR -- What specifically should we be doing to help the situation? I don't think a poll on a public forum carries much of a punch. Is there a particular person or department we should be calling/emailing/writing to? I'd be more than willing to give them my two cents on this.

 

[rie'smom]

I voted no. If I decide to add a tip when on the dining plan,I will,however,I like the idea that the tip is included.

 

[Bellybee]

We would probably still get it but I would feel bad for the servers.
Here in the UK the maximum I tend to and the majority of people i know tip is 10% (this is only at exceptional service it is not unknown to not tip at all but I have strong opinions about tipping) and I know when we were in america it was hard to adjust to tipping almost double that.
Also tipping other people like barman was really odd for us.
This is why I prefer the disney dining plan as it removes the need to calculate tips etc and we don't feel bad.

 

[bicker]

And while I can understand people not ordering what they won't eat, I still can see what they're ordering as being substantially above the DDP current price with or without the 18% tacked on.

It's not just that people won't order what they won't eat -- rather, people don't value what they wouldn't order anyway as highly as what they would. If I want a five pound roast, then a ten pound roast is not worth twice as much to me.

So to me (and obviously not to you), the DDP is a loss leader.

It is generally accepted here on the DIS that the Dining Plan is not a loss-leader, the way you're using the term, to Disney either -- while they use it as an incentive, they actually do make profit on it, albeit a small one. Free dining is, of course, not a profitable line-item by itself, but only profitable in the context of being an incentive for filling hotel rooms at rack rate, so, in your parlance, a loss-leader.

The other question I have is if there is no perceived "bargain" in the DDP, why bother?

For convenience. Don't underestimate the value of convenience. It is what keeps Stouffer's in business. The reality is that Disney's goal needs to be to get the price for the Dining Plan to reflect the consensus view of its value, as closely as possible. It should be hard to decide whether or not to go with the Dining Plan -- it shouldn't be an easy decision. That's the nature of consumer pricing: It should be easy to decide you want to buy something, but hard to decide between alternatives offered by the same vendor.

 

[bicker]

If the results of this poll are true

What do you mean by "true"? I'm sure that people answered the survey the way they wanted their voice to be heard, so in that regard, I think it is very true.

(admittedly a very very small sample of all Disney guests), then this proposed change in DDP seems foolish for the company

Not at all. About one-third of guests are willing to be heard saying that this will not affect their purchasing of the Dining Plan. If that many are willing to be heard that way, just imagine how many more would be willing to actually do it, while still maintaining their outward projection of disappointment for how the change would affect servers. Remember, DIS members are, as a group, a very sensitive and compassionate lot.

Furthermore, Disney's objective is never attendance, but always profit. Earlier in the thread someone pointed out that they'd rather serve smaller number of guests making more profit per guest, as long as the total profit is higher. That reflects a better utilization of available assets, and establishes extra capacity within which they can serve even more guests.

It does seem to me that if you were trying to use this poll to foster the perception that the Dining Plan would collapse if these changes were effected, it has failed. There are clearly more than enough folks more than willing to continue using the Dining Plan. Of course, that is just my take.

It seems to me that the average DDP guest and servers should be on the same page here. Servers dont want to lose the auto grat, just as guests do not want to now pay the entire tip OOP.

Yes, that was my guess up-front and why I was so surprised by that message earlier which seemed to indicate that the servers wanted this change. I couldn't imagine that to be the case. However, it also bears note that not all guests will be on the same page here. Many many guests despise the Dining Plan, and whether their logic makes sense or not (I happen not to agree with them) anything that reduces the Dining Plan's impact on the restaurants would be a GOOD THING in their eyes. So take the third of the Dining Plan patrons, as indicated by this poll, and add to them all the guests who have been grousing for months and perhaps years about how the Dining Plan has "ruined" Disney Dining, folks who will be pleased by how much less crowded the restaurants will be if fewer people use the Dining Plan, folks who will be pleased if some small bit of that additional revenue goes back into upgrading the cuisine just a little, and Disney has not only safeguarded their Dining Plan offering, but recaptured some of the guests who have been threatening to abandon Disney dining (and perhaps already have), guests who, on average, are the ones willing to pay the most, i.e., the most profitable guests.

Sounds like it could be a win for Disney to me.

 

[bicker]

I don't think a poll on a public forum carries much of a punch.

Absolutely correct. Unscientific surveys are meaningless in that regard. If nothing else, this poll isn't even likely to be seen, much less answered, by all the Disney dining patrons who don't like the Dining Plan already, and there aren't any choices available for them to reflect how these changes and their potential for reduction in restaurant crowding would have, i.e., the positive aspects of this change for those folks.

The way consumers like us have our say are by participating in normalized surveys and through our actual purchasing behaviors. There is not much to be done in the moment. You need to hope that folks have answered normalized surveys "the right way" up to now, and that the pattern of purchasing behaviors foster the perspective that you'd like to see triumph.

 

[Katiebell]

To clear up some confusion, the removal of gratuity from the DDP is DISNEY'S stance and demand. The server's union has fought this but from all accounts have lost on this front. As others have logically reasoned, no server wants to lose the automatic 18% gratuity. Do know that the servers union 2 years ago secured the increase in auto grat for DDP from 15% to 18%. They DO NOT want to lose this.

Thank you for clarifying this -- the wording in your other post did cause some confusion on who "they" were, the union or Disney. The only reason I could see that the union would push for the drop of that auto-gratuity was if it was a sacrifice because there were more important issues on the table, and they were trying to convince the union members that it had to be done. We saw a lot of that in our last contract negotiations but ultimately we ended up with a decent contract we can live with.

This matter is urgent (to recap as requested) because Disney/union contract negotiations are wrapping up and this issue is on the table. The urgency is for more guests to make their voice heard, either directly or indirectly. If the results of this poll are true (admittedly a very very small sample of all Disney guests), then this proposed change in DDP seems foolish for the company as well as the guest, a lose-lose situation. That is just my take however and others will have their own interpretation.

Who do we need to contact? Give us an email or address.

It seems to me that the average DDP guest and servers should be on the same page here. Servers dont want to lose the auto grat, just as guests do not want to now pay the entire tip OOP. Guests do not want to lose the ease of checkout (swipe the card), nor do the servers (who prefer to swipe one card and be done, rather than get bogged down swiping a second card for a tip).

It's not just a loss of convenience -- it's a loss of dollar value of the plan to the consumer, and I'm not sure if people realize how significant that loss it is. If you order a meal that costs $50 for appetizer, entree, dessert, beverage, and tax, an 18% tip would be $9. Right now, that is included in the plan. If the gratuity is removed that is $9 -- per person in your party -- you will have to pay OOP for every TS meal. Over and above the original cost of your plan. Multiply that by a family of four, one TS per day for a 10 day vacation -- that is a huge loss in the value of the plan for the guests. That "up to 40% savings" that Disney advertises to entice guests to purchase the plan evaporates quickly.

 

[all4fun]

One of the BIG advantages of the DDP for us is knowing in advance what our food budget would be. If they didn't include both tax and tip in the pricing, we would never do DDP again.

I understand the need to increase the pricing periodically, as costs are always going up. However, this is a significant price increase that attempts to remain hidden.

It just doesn't sit right with us, and we would not participate.

 

[TDC Nala]

I fully believe you as I was told the same info from a WDW server. One tab bit you left out(maybe to avoid the drama of posting this info) is that the proposed setup, which you talked about, also includes an automatic 18% gratutity to the DDE card holders.

Which they're probably going to wish they didn't do - because usually I would just add back in the 20% discount. If the gratuity is automatically added I doubt I will do more calculations.

 

[Nancyg56]

It's not just a loss of convenience -- it's a loss of dollar value of the plan to the consumer, and I'm not sure if people realize how significant that loss it is. If you order a meal that costs $50 for appetizer, entree, dessert, beverage, and tax, an 18% tip would be $9. Right now, that is included in the plan. If the gratuity is removed that is $9 -- per person in your party -- you will have to pay OOP for every TS meal. Over and above the original cost of your plan. Multiply that by a family of four, one TS per day for a 10 day vacation -- that is a huge loss in the value of the plan for the guests. That "up to 40% savings" that Disney advertises to entice guests to purchase the plan evaporates quickly.

Exactly. The DDP has advantages as well as disadvantages as it stands now. Many families are at a break even point now, but purchase it in order to have a flexibility that they may not normally have. Add the gratuity into the mix and the plan may lose it's value. 18% on top of the original purchase may be the amount that tips the scale.

 

[bicker]

Many families are at a break even point now

We are, but I get the impression, from reading LOTS of messages in this forum (which I KNOW is not a representative sampling, but...) that we're on the low-end of the scale in that regard, and that most guests purchasing the Dining Plan derive a lot more value from the Dining Plan than we do, and therefore are pretty FAR from the break-even point -- the price would have to go up a lot, perhaps even a lot more than 18%, in order for those families to actually reach the break-even point.

 

[Nancyg56]

We are, but I get the impression, from reading LOTS of messages in this forum (which I KNOW is not a representative sampling, but...) that we're on the low-end of the scale in that regard, and that most guests purchasing the Dining Plan derive a lot more value from the Dining Plan than we do, and therefore are pretty FAR from the break-even point -- the price would have to go up a lot, perhaps even a lot more than 18%, in order for those families to actually reach the break-even point.

The DDP is a great value if you want to have the ability to order what you choose and you don't want to consider the price. Skip the dessert or order one for everyone...no problem. The price is the same. It becomes an issue when families are using it to the fullest extent because they can, but then are whacked with an additional bill at the end of the meal. They may purchase it now but after a few $20 or $30 additions the plan may not be so shiny.

These families will still eat but may choose to trim down spending in other areas. We enjoy a glass of wine with dinner and my family orders specialty drinks that are not included on the plan. We also indulge my DGD as we wander through gift shops after our dinner. I doubt that most families are so different in that there is a budget on the trip. Spend more money in one area, there is less in another. Disney may "save" in this area for a period of time, but I wonder if the longterm savings will justify the price increase.

The Disney restaurants are not a great value for families on a budget, the DDP changed that. Change the plan....the value may diminish. I think it may take a season or two for the number crunchers to determine the savings this type of change be generate.

 

[JimMIA]

We are, but I get the impression, from reading LOTS of messages in this forum (which I KNOW is not a representative sampling, but...) that we're on the low-end of the scale in that regard, and that most guests purchasing the Dining Plan derive a lot more value from the Dining Plan than we do, and therefore are pretty FAR from the break-even point -- the price would have to go up a lot, perhaps even a lot more than 18%, in order for those families to actually reach the break-even point.

We're in the same boat.

When I compare the cost of the DDP to what we would actually spend without the DDP, we save less than $100 on each 4-5 day trip. DDP saves us a little money and provides both convenience and an excuse to try new Disney restaurants. (For example, last week we tried CG and Whispering Canyon -- we would not have tried those without DDP, and wouldn't go back without DDP.)

If they keep the price the same and eliminate the tip, it would cost us more to use DDP, so we wouldn't use it. The result is we would minimize our snack purchases, completely eliminate our CS meals, and probably eat all but 2 of our main meals offsite. Our expenditures with Disney Dining would drop from +/-$600 to about $200 per trip. We'd eat just as well as we do now -- just elsewhere.

 

[Nancyg56]

We'd eat just as well as we do now -- just elsewhere.

You said exactly what I tried to say....just so much better!

 

[gina2000]

We are, but I get the impression, from reading LOTS of messages in this forum (which I KNOW is not a representative sampling, but...) that we're on the low-end of the scale in that regard, and that most guests purchasing the Dining Plan derive a lot more value from the Dining Plan than we do, and therefore are pretty FAR from the break-even point -- the price would have to go up a lot, perhaps even a lot more than 18%, in order for those families to actually reach the break-even point.

We've never purchased the dining plan but based on our eating pattern, we'd still save money. As I think I pointed out on a different thread, if you eat an appetizer, an entree and a dessert at your TS meal, even ordering the least expensive in each category brings you at or very close to breakeven with the DDP (I didn't even calculate tax). At that time, though, I did throw a ballpark 18% into the equation so technically you'd lose a small amount if you had to pay for gratuities under the same scenarios. We rarely do counter service and virtually never do buffets so it would work for us. If we did an occasional counter service and skipped desserts, we'd still come out ahead....heavier...but out ahead. And I didn't even factor snacks into the calculations, either.

 

[jpaulgor]

Without the tip, the sheer convenience factor for me is gone. That was a big selling point for me.

The restaurant menus need to be upgraded now for me to even consider the DDP. At any sea food restaurant, for example, I would much rather have some fried shrimp than some grilled salmon. With the limited menus, and now the convenience factor gone, I would sooner eat off site at a Red Lobster, than to eat on site at Coral Reef, for example.

With the all inclusive nature of the plan, I was willing to over look the limited menu, but not now. The limited menus are an entirely different rant, though.