Upgrading based on ISO?

[*pixie*]

I have the Canon Rebel XS, and the kit lens, 28-135 mm, and 85 mm lens. My only complaint is that I am constantly fighting low light conditions when shooting action. The XS only has an ISO to 1600. The T3 goes to 6400 and the T3i is expandable to 12,800. My question is, does the higher ISO of the these two cameras justify upgrading from the XS? Or, is it more a matter of me still having more learning to do to get the shots I want?

 

[mom2rtk]

I upgraded from the Xsi just because I found myself wanting a usable ISO higher than 1600. I moved to the T2i 2 years ago and haven't regretted it for a moment. I really consider the 3200 to be my highest usable ISO, but for me, it was worth it.

I also loved the addition of the quick control screen. I had to pull the Xsi last year when I sent the T2i in with a lens for calibration, and it really did feel like a step backwards.

 

[photo_chick]

If I were you I'd go for the new camera. The XS is pretty old and you'd be getting a lot more than just a couple more ISO stops.

 

[bob100]

I have the Canon Rebel XS, and the kit lens, 28-135 mm, and 85 mm lens. My only complaint is that I am constantly fighting low light conditions when shooting action. The XS only has an ISO to 1600. The T3 goes to 6400 and the T3i is expandable to 12,800. My question is, does the higher ISO of the these two cameras justify upgrading from the XS? Or, is it more a matter of me still having more learning to do to get the shots I want?

I agree with the others, newer models are better and you should probably upgrade but you can go higher than ISO 1600 with the XS, - shoot in manual mode and increase the exposure with DPP or photoshop, etc.

 

[Frantasmic]

What sport are you shooting? I would suggest renting the 135L lens on your current camera first. The xs is old but I would think you could get good pics on it. Your 85m 1.8 is a great lens however, so if you aren't happy with its pictures in low light maybe it is time for a newer camera. Rumors are that canon is still putting out new cameras later in the year. One is a new 70D, replacing the 60D. A 60D on sale would be about the same as the cameras you are considering but would be a much better camera IMO.

 

[Gianna'sPapa]

As photo chick stated you get more than just a few steps of ISO with an upgrade. Stating that, I upgraded because of that same problem. Because of the type of photography I do, lowlight shooting was a necessity and I can't always use an external flash. It has made my life a whole lot easier. Yes, with PP you can do a lot of things, but now I don't have to do those things. I would rather be shooting than salvaging images on the computer. That doesn't mean my old camera went away. When I'm shooting with two cameras it hangs on my left side, usually with a fast lens. I'm able to go with a slightly slower lens on the new one because of the better usable ISO. With the expanded feature I have a range of 80-51200, but not all of that is really usable. I like to keep it between 100 and 12800. With 12800 it is like shooting 1600 on the older camera.

 

[meanpc]

I have the Canon Rebel XS, and the kit lens, 28-135 mm, and 85 mm lens. My only complaint is that I am constantly fighting low light conditions when shooting action. The XS only has an ISO to 1600. The T3 goes to 6400 and the T3i is expandable to 12,800. My question is, does the higher ISO of the these two cameras justify upgrading from the XS? Or, is it more a matter of me still having more learning to do to get the shots I want?

What kind of shooting are you doing exactly? The 85 wide open at 1600 ISO is pretty fast... There's no doubt the newer cameras are better noise-wise, but I don't know how much better.

Are you just having problems when shooting the 28-135? If so, a new camera won't really fix that. That lens will not get action shots in sub-optimal light no matter what camera you use.

I have a T3i, and didn't know it was expandable to 12,800. I don't know if I would want a 12,800 ISO image from a crop camera, or from a full-frame camera for that matter.

 

[photo_chick]

Are you just having problems when shooting the 28-135? If so, a new camera won't really fix that. That lens will not get action shots in sub-optimal light no matter what camera you use.

I have the predecessor to this lens, the 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 and have used it as my walkaround since the 90's. It lacks the IS that the 28-135 has but is similar in speed and optics. You can push it pretty far in lower light. Sure a faster lens would be better, but it's a solid medium speed zoom.

I have a T3i, and didn't know it was expandable to 12,800. I don't know if I would want a 12,800 ISO image from a crop camera, or from a full-frame camera for that matter.

I think this is a really subjective area. While I prefer shooting at lower ISO settings, the higher settings do let me get some shots I wouldn't otherwise be able to get. Like hand held shots of kids with sparklers, or people around the campfire, or my kids sleeping at night in their beds. I shoot at 6400 quite frequently with my 50D which isn't quite as good noise wise as the T3i. But when I do so I know that either A) those images will stay digital and not be viewed large and never at 100% since they present an excellent example of pointillism when you pixel peep. or B) that I'll be doing some more creative post processing with them if I want to print. I avoid 12,800 on the 50D though. It's too bandy for me to do much with. But again, it's better than not getting the shot at all. And as far as those higher ISO setting on a full frame... have you played with a 5DmkIII or 1DX yet? The perfromance was enough to get me to decide to go full frame, something I said I'd never do since I like the smaller size of crop cameras.

 

[mom2rtk]

I have the T2i which goes to 12,800. But honestly I've never tried it. I thought the 6400 shots were a little too noisy for my taste, even after running them through LR3's noise reduction. But I'm really happy at 3200, especially with a faster lens. That addition of 3200 was enough to allow me to use my 2.8 lens for nearly any shot I want. I even had some results I was happy with on Haunted Mansion with that combo.

 

[wbeem]

I have the Canon Rebel XS, and the kit lens, 28-135 mm, and 85 mm lens. My only complaint is that I am constantly fighting low light conditions when shooting action. The XS only has an ISO to 1600. The T3 goes to 6400 and the T3i is expandable to 12,800. My question is, does the higher ISO of the these two cameras justify upgrading from the XS? Or, is it more a matter of me still having more learning to do to get the shots I want?

You've hit upon the driving factor that determines when it's time to buy new gear: does it solve a problem? If you're constantly fighting your current gear, you have a problem. If you can't overcome it with technique, then it's time for gear.

I moved from the Nikon D200 to the D700 partly for this same concern. The D200 was horrible about generating noise above ISO 400. As a full frame camera, the D700 is vastly superior.

Don't get too excited about ISO 6400 or 12,800 until you see some shots, though. Technically, I could shoot ISO 1600 with my Nikon D200. Aesthetically, it as so noisy that I found it almost unusable.

 

[*pixie*]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I think i would be better off upgrading. I'm not in a huge hurry, so I'm hopeful if I take my time I can find a good deal. Maybe even the 60D.

 

[meanpc]

Danielle, actually I had a 5d2 from the time they came out until a few months ago. I was doing some 2nd shooting for a wedding photographer and I was the unit photographer for my guard unit for a few years. I have since quit doing both and really had too much camera and not enough time to shoot. I was also somewhat lens-poor.

The guy I used to second shoot for offered me a really good price for my 5d2, just before the 5d3 came out, so I took it. I used the money to buy a T3i, a 200mm prime, a bag, and a tripod.

For sure there's some things I miss about the 5d2. It felt way better in my hands and had a little more dynamic range. On the wide end, it was great to have a full frame, and I liked the ISO capabilities.

Fllip side though, the T3i is incredible for the money. Focuses very quickly and accurately, faster than the 5d2 in my opinion. The screen looks better, and the articulation is awesome - especially for video. The last Rebel I had was the 350d and Canon has come a long, long way since then. Until I either start making money with a camera again or strike it rich, the Rebel paired with fast primes is good enough for me.

 

[photo_chick]

Danielle, actually I had a 5d2 from the time they came out until a few months ago. I was doing some 2nd shooting for a wedding photographer and I was the unit photographer for my guard unit for a few years. I have since quit doing both and really had too much camera and not enough time to shoot. I was also somewhat lens-poor.

The guy I used to second shoot for offered me a really good price for my 5d2, just before the 5d3 came out, so I took it. I used the money to buy a T3i, a 200mm prime, a bag, and a tripod.

I'd honestly go for the 7D (or any of the similarly sensored cameras like the T3i) over the 5DmkII. But the 5DmkIII... it's a whole different camera. And it blows the mkII away. I'm totally not a full frame snob and I don't think they're worth the investment if you're not a photographer who makes enough off your photography to justify the expense (unless you just have tons of cash for toys) You can do great things with a crop body and believe me I'm the poster child for being lens poor. If I didn't have friends with high end equipment I'd never use anything but my mid level glass.

 

[bob100]

Danielle, actually I had a 5d2 from the time they came out until a few months ago. I was doing some 2nd shooting for a wedding photographer and I was the unit photographer for my guard unit for a few years. I have since quit doing both and really had too much camera and not enough time to shoot. I was also somewhat lens-poor.

The guy I used to second shoot for offered me a really good price for my 5d2, just before the 5d3 came out, so I took it. I used the money to buy a T3i, a 200mm prime, a bag, and a tripod.
For sure there's some things I miss about the 5d2. It felt way better in my hands and had a little more dynamic range. On the wide end, it was great to have a full frame, and I liked the ISO capabilities.
Fllip side though, the T3i is incredible for the money. Focuses very quickly and accurately, faster than the 5d2 in my opinion. The screen looks better, and the articulation is awesome - especially for video. The last Rebel I had was the 350d and Canon has come a long, long way since then. Until I either start making money with a camera again or strike it rich, the Rebel paired with fast primes is good enough for me.

not the usual upgrade story but I understand, the low end models can do most of what a full frame model can do but at far less cost.

 

[meanpc]

not the usual upgrade story but I understand, the low end models can do most of what a full frame model can do but at far less cost.

That's just it - the low end models are so much better than they used to be. I'm still amazed at the focusing speed on the T3i, and the LCD is way better than the 5d2.

The 5d2 sensor is much better though, as far as ISO performance and dynamic range. I haven't tried yet, but I feel like I could pick out a 5d2 image vs. a crop sensor image every time, in a blind test.

 

[bob100]

I feel like I could pick out a 5d2 image vs. a crop sensor image every time, in a blind test.

probably, especially in poor light but most full frame owners have good lens and that's also a factor. Those "L" lens don't come cheap!

 

[photo_chick]

probably, especially in poor light but most full frame owners have good lens and that's also a factor. Those "L" lens don't come cheap!

Yep. I've seen people buy full frame cameras and put their entry level glass on there and scratch their heads at the lower quality of the images they get. It's like playing a VHS tape on an HDTV. But it goes both ways. You put L series glass on an entry level camera and you get better image quality with less apparent noise because of it.