UPDATED w/ more PICS!! At WH's right now and need some advice from former visitors...

[Beccabunny]

We stayed at WH once and loved it. The townhouse we stayed in wasn't perfect, but it was extremely clean. We had no issues with the condition of the TH or with bugs. Never saw one bug inside the TH in the eight days that we were there.
Even before reading this thread, I had seen the advertising for this particular group of rental units and had misgivings. Their advertising bothered me in ways that are hard to pinpoint. Watching the videos, I felt like I was supposed to get all excited about the framed Disney art on the walls and the plastic Disney cups in the cupboards, while overlooking the rather cheap-looking furnishings and the same throw rugs that you see in numerous rentals. The advertising style reminded me of a used car dealership. This is JUST MY OPINION, but that's how I felt. The advertising is hard sell, and that's a turn-off for me. I would not rent from them, but I definitely plan to stay at WH again.

 

[Gr8t Fan]

I have to admit that this thread has me a little worried. We're booked at WH for next August through www.vacationcentralflorida.com and it was a hard sell to convince DH to consider offsite again (not to mention the kids). I also got a poorly worded survey after this post was first made, and I commented that I'd like to have a third option when responding to whether or not I believe everything I read on the internet.

In the past we've stayed at Cypress Pointe and Grande Beach through SkyAuction and had a great time at both resorts, but they were clean and well-kept and I didn't have to wash and dry all the towels before we left. I simply had to strip the beds, get a load of towels started and start the dishwasher.

I'm wondering if booking with vacationcentralflorida is going to be more trouble than it's worth , and maybe I should just spend the extra $$ and get a room onsite at WDW.

 

[kidshop]

I have to admit that this thread has me a little worried. We're booked at WH for next August through www.vacationcentralflorida.com and it was a hard sell to convince DH to consider offsite again (not to mention the kids). I also got a poorly worded survey after this post was first made, and I commented that I'd like to have a third option when responding to whether or not I believe everything I read on the internet.

In the past we've stayed at Cypress Pointe and Grande Beach through SkyAuction and had a great time at both resorts, but they were clean and well-kept and I didn't have to wash and dry all the towels before we left. I simply had to strip the beds, get a load of towels started and start the dishwasher.

I'm wondering if booking with vacationcentralflorida is going to be more trouble than it's worth , and maybe I should just spend the extra $$ and get a room onsite at WDW.

There are many MANY positive reviews of vacationcentralflorida right here on the DIS. I stayed there based on these reviews in March of 09. We stayed in a townhome on Sir Kaufman, and it was their newer one at the time. It was wonderful! Everything was exactly as shown on the website. I really only remember having to put the towels in the wash, but not being asked to dry them. Maybe that has changed. I would have stayed with them on our next trip in Dec, but the Sat-Sat requirement didn't work for us this time. The price would have been almost $1000 less than the 4 bedroom we went with. We wanted to try a large pool and I wanted a princess room too, but that's a lot of money!

I'd like to hear from those staying in these units more recently, hopefully some will chime in.

Those pictures are nasty, and there is no way I would have cleaned any of it! The management company would have to do it or move me.

Love bugs....

 

[dougsmom98]

After seeing the pictures from the original poster, I would have been very disappointed with that unit if I rented it. The crack in the wall didn't bother me so much as the stuff on the front of the dishwasher, the bug casings and the blood on the pillow. Both of those issues are a management/housekeeping problem. If the unit was cleaned properly, there is no way that they could have missed those things.
Sorry you had such a bad experience.

 

[happylittlefamily]

Please take a look at the pics again, Duffy, as I added one just for you showing the note attached to the washer/dryer from management asking that towels be washed and dried before leaving.

In doing so, it helped me out as well! LOL I couldn't find the name of the property management company used anywhere, but there it is at the bottom of the note So, the company they use is "SOUTHERN STYLE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT" to help those inquiring before booking their trips.

And please, Duffy, can you stop on questioning my laundry? You are not adding it up correctly at all. I will post all 32 loads worth of laundry for you, if I must, since your addition seems to be struggling. I try to avoid getting to such a juvenile level, but at this point, you are seriously annoying me with your constant need to assume less was done because you were not there to participate in the workload.

 

[Ed J]

The photos are worse than I expected. I'm not a picky person, but if I saw that I'd leave.

What kind of dough did this place cost? Anything over $50 a night for a 3 bedroom in this kind of condition was too much.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

Duffy,

Not trying to pick on you, just trying to discuss. Can you phantom the idea that I did ten loads in four days? Yes, they were small loads as I did them in order to have clean towels for the next day. Also, washed our clothing each night as we only brought one pair of bottoms and two tops per person as we were flying.

Also, I have a regular sized washer and dryer and I shove my bedspread in there to wash, it is a king sized bed spread.

I'm wondering if when you stayed at condos, maybe you did not realize you were to throw in a load of towels before you left? Where have you stayed where this was not a requirement. Sure, I wish we did not have to do this, but for us condos are the only way we can spend time on vacation and have room for all of us to have our own space so that is why we rent condos.

I know that she's not complaining about having to wash the towels. She seemed fine with that.

I've rented condos and never heard of this rule before. I've been reading the thread waiting for someone to question it. No one has, so I finally brought it up, despite being told, when I did bring up the requirement, that "I don't think the original poster said she was REQUIRED to clean up the unit for the next family."

When we rent condos, they come complete with dishsoap, paper towels, tissue. I always bring my own soap and shampoo, but I know I've seen the small, hotel-sized amounts of toiletries in the units. I've never rented in Florida, is that the difference?

I agree, blood on a pillowcase is disgusting. Go back and read my posts. My issue is, and has always been THIRTY-TWO LOADS???? Not the filth. Not anything but how the heck does someone wash 32 loads in a week while on vacation??

I just can't make 4 sets of twin sheets, one set of queen sheets, one set of king sheets, a baby blanket, mattress covers, pillowcases, towels-even pool towels, and a week's worth of clothing for six people add up to 32 loads of laundry. Even if she had to wash the towels again.

I can only conclude that the original poster washed very, very small loads, if she really did do that much. Or, she brought a heck of a lot of clothing with her.

I can't even believe that the queen and king comforters were washed by her, because they're too big to fit in those washers!

I would really, really like to know who this property management company is, so I know to never ever use them. Can someone point out condo rentals that DON'T require cleaning up for the next family, as part of the rental agreement?

Or-and I guess I'm being condescending here-I'm going to stick with Disney here, because I don't want to have to clean up my towels for the next family, or have to depend on the LAST family to have washed them for me.

 

[At World's End]

OP, I just want to thank you for posting your review, and following up with the pictures. I've been following the thread the whole time, and when you originally posted it, it had me very worried because we had booked at WH. I started asking questions and didn't get a good feel about the unit we had booked. I started looking at alternatives, and based on previous reviews, I started looking at the company you rented from (this was before you posted that they were the owner!) So when you posted who the owner was, I was really upset! It sounds to me like the rental company has become too comfortable with all the good reviews they get, and are slacking on the maintenance of this particular unit. But it does make me wonder what their standards will be for the rest of their units in several months time, so I didn't want to chance it.

After seeing what you had to deal with, I would have done exactly what you did - washed everything in the unit, called the property manager, expected a refund of the cleaning deposit. I am so sorry that they responded in the way that they did and that you had to go through this whole ordeal. I'm so glad you shared your experience. I think alot of people just brush some of this stuff off, but that only benefits the company that is allowed to get away with such low standards.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

When we left, as we were as disgusted as you are, we did not write anything in the guest book as we did not want any repercussion from the person we rented from. I'm going thru the thread to see if it is the same person.

Also, you know what I find very weird? I read through the Guest Book, thinking SOMEONE had to have mentioned some of this stuff along the way. And nothing! Only compliments about how fantastic it is!! Not one single "oh the pool fence is broken, so you might want to fix that" or anything. Everything is about how great the place is! And like I said, the house is wonderful if it were kept as I'm sure it was intended. The stuff I'm upset about is more about upkeep and basic expectations (like enough glasses for 7everyone to drink from at the same time) that you would find in a place like this.

I almost don't know what to write in the guest book myself?! I mean, I don't want to be the "one" that is a pain in the butt and complains, but some of this stuff just doesn't make vacationing very relaxing.

 

[happylittlefamily]

I wanted to also mention my own history as a resort maid, at a local ski resort. I worked there to pay for my season lift ticket, about 16 years ago. (That makes me a ski bum!)

After ski season ended, we would "spring clean" the units, and wash every single item of bed linen, plus the towels, and clean the oven, wipe out the kitchen cabinets, detail EVERYTHING. It would take all day to deep clean a unit that sleeps 8-10 people, and we never, ever ended up doing more than 10 loads of laundry, for the entire unit!!

So, from my professional experience, I can say that a unit sleeping 8-10 people should not ever remotely require anywhere near that many loads of laundry. Even saying it takes 10, and then allowing another 2, that makes 12 loads. Then, I guess the original poster washed 20 loads of personal laundry?

The only possible way I can account for so many loads, is using one towel, and then washing it after only that one use. Use a towel, wash it and it alone. Use a towel, wash it and it alone. That's not my style.

Also, we never required guests to wash the towels for the next renter! And we supplied all the necessary cleaning supplies, soap, shampoos, dish soap, etc.

This is for you, Duffy

1. queen set of sheets, pillowcases, pillow shams, blanket in closet
2. 2 sets of twin sheets, 4 pillowcases + kitchen towels/washcloths/pot holders
3. queen comforter
4. twin comforter
5. twin comforter
6. extra miscellaneous sheets in top of queen room closet
7. extra sheets in top of twin room closet
8. 2 twin mattress cover + 1/2 of the zippered pillow covers on all pillows in the house.
9. king sheet set, 4 king pillowcases + other 1/2 of zippered pillow covers
10. miscellaneous towels in linen closet
11. miscellaenous towels in linen closet + dark pillow shams from king room
12. pool towels
13. bath towels - sunday (remember, there are only 6 towels in all the bathrooms. 2 in master, 2 in upstairs twin room, 2 in downstairs bathroom)
14. bath towels - monday
15. bath towels - tuesday
16. bath towels - wednesday
17. bath towels - thursday
18. bath towels - friday
19. bath towels - saturday before leaving
20. pool towels again (hubby had to do something with the kids while I was doing laundry! They needed to be washed during the week as well)
21. again, pool towels during our stay. I washed them 3 times. Once before the kids used them, and then 2 times after our use.
22. 1 king mattress cover and 1 queen mattress cover
23. and throughout the week, I did laundry for my family of 6.
24. " "
25. " "
26. " "
27. " "
28. " "
29. " "
30. " "
31. " "
32. " "

Can you sleep better now? I don't mean to get ugly, but not sure why you'd think I'm over-exaggerating the laundry ordeal when clearly you can see I wasn't over-exaggerating the rest of our issues. What exactly would I get out of claiming to do such a large amount of laundry if it weren't so? That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

We booked thru them too and our unit was filthy as I mentioned earlier in this thread. As a result, I am not willing to go thru them again. The person who handles the rentals was very nice up until we signed on and then he became rude, would not answer all emails, and when he did his responses were short and curt.

On the other hand, I would rent from another mgmt. company or owner at WH and give them a chance.

Duffy, the OP did mention the company she rented from. It was www.vacationcentralflorida.com. We have rented from them twice and both times the units we stayed in were extremely clean. I'm not disputing what others have said - perhaps the owners have changed to a different cleaning company or there is one employee with the cleaning company who doesn't do a very good job. There could be a couple of explanations for the cleaning issues.

Personally, I'm willing to give these folks another chance and try another of their rentals on our next trip. We're already booked with them as a matter of fact. If you do a search on these boards, you'll see that quite a few people have been very happy with their units.

As for having to wash the towels, I'll admit the first couple of times I wasn't thrilled about it. But I've decided that the extra space and amenties we get at a MUCH lower price than onsite makes it worth that little bit of work. We were originally booked at Port Orleans Riverside for this upcoming trip. Then we saw the 2011 rates on Dave's site and we just could not pass up the 3 bedroom townhouse. We're saving $1500 on our accommodations - that's huge. It's enough to cover our park tickets, parking each day, and the gas to and from Orlando. And we're getting much roomier accommodations to boot. With savings like that, I don't even mind if I have to go out and buy a few towels, let alone wash them. But I can understand being annoyed that everything in the place seems to need washing before you can relax and enjoy your vacation. That definitely warrants some attention from the property manager and, quite honestly, I think the OP's cleaning fee should be refunded.

 

[crusoe2]

We booked thru them too and our unit was filthy as I mentioned earlier in this thread. As a result, I am not willing to go thru them again. The person who handles the rentals was very nice up until we signed on and then he became rude, would not answer all emails, and when he did his responses were short and curt.

On the other hand, I would rent from another mgmt. company or owner at WH and give them a chance.

When you say "the person who handles the rentals" do you mean Dave Robinson or the actual owner of the unit you rented? Our experience has been that Dave handles the initial booking and then turns things over to the owner of the unit you've chosen. (Btw, I'm not trying to cast doubt on what you said or anything - truly just curious.)

 

[loveslupins]

Hee Hee.

How convenient that there is a laundry smiley



You should have pressed it 32 times!

Sorry you had to deal with all this on vacation. Those pictures are pretty disgusting. Especially the blood on the pillow case and the gross pillow!

We're staying at Windsor Hills in February and hoping for a better experience.

Forgot to add: We stay at a condo in Naples and are expected to "start" the towels and/or sheets. I think the idea is that it gives the cleaning person a head start since it's probably difficult to get that all washed between checkout and check in times.

 

[happylittlefamily]

Forgot to add: We stay at a condo in Naples and are expected to "start" the towels and/or sheets. I think the idea is that it gives the cleaning person a head start since it's probably difficult to get that all washed between checkout and check in times.

Yeah, I can totally understand starting the laundry. I have no problems with that. We have had to do that at several of the resorts we've stayed at. However, they also include 1 or 2 load size boxes of detergent for you as well, I guess to ensure you actually use detergent when you start the wash. LOL

I definitely think it should be noted somewhere for the guest prior to them coming that they will need detergent to do all the towels before leaving and also, that since it's a front loading washer, they need to make sure they use HE detergent. Nowhere at all, on the washer, in the guest book, in the info book provided when you get there, etc, does it state that you cannot use just any detergent, but must use HE detergent. I know this because I cloth diapered my children (throws the wasteful and environmentally unfriendly thought out the window ) I did a lot of research on the proper detergents and best washers to use since I had 3 little ones in diapers at the same time. FWIW, don't worry! I didn't cloth diaper my babies at all on our stay! LOL All but 1 is potty trained and we used disposibles as I had hoped to take a break from doing laundry on vacation!

Anyway, here's a pic of the sign on the washer:

Enjoy your stay in Naples!! I live right around the corner from there and it's beautiful!!

 

[happylittlefamily]

I guess some of my pics from last night didn't get onto my post, so here's a couple more. Funny thing is, you guys are actually seeing what was found AFTER property management came in to make repairs. LOL I don't think I even have any pics of the broken dining room chair, the old nasty cheese in the cheese grater, the entire cut out wall on the pack n play, the handle that fell off the sliding glass door, the broken pool fence, the rusted and wire exposed strainer in the kitchen, the hairs and stains, and on and on I could go. Like I said, I never took pics to "get them" but only took pics to avoid being charged for damages once they kept bringing them up. Anyway, here's some pics...

Lovely pot for us to use

drain in the bathroom tub we never used. Hard to take a bath without a drain stop, huh? Oh, notice the yuck on it? A little scrubbing bubbles would be a good thing here...

 

[dis-happy]

Too bad you didn't take a picture of the broken pool fence. When we stayed at WH there was a sign on the door (I assume a mandated sign) that said somthing along the lines of: in FL it's illegal to disable the door alarms as well as something about the pool fence being locked when not in use. By not having an actual working and locking pool fence I bet they are under a major code violation. Wonder what the city as well as their homeowner's insurance would think of that.... Talk about liability!!!!

 

[two*little*birds]

Well now, maybe that will shut up the naysayers. It IS possible for one person to have a different experience than another. REGARDLESS...that situation needs to be ADDRESSED. That was just NASTY (as well as some of the comments on here).

I'm so sorry for your bad experience HLF. I think you've been MORE than fair in your review of YOUR experience with this rental. I know you prefer the magic of staying onsite as many do. But I realize you are open minded enough to know not all properties are kept this way. You've also made it MORE than clear you're not looking for any compensation (although an offer would have been more than appropriate), that you're VERY concerned about the cleanliness because it's gross & is a health factor (and that's what was paid for) and who you think is to blame for this disgusting oversight.

YOU'VE BEEN MORE THAN FAIR. It's best to ignore posters who are only looking to inflame this situation.

I just can't believe people sometimes .

Very well said and I concure with everything ClanHarrison stated - truly I am so sorry you had to go through this. Bless your heart for remaining as positive as you have.

 

[duffy]

I've been at work all day, I work until 8 pm EST, that's why no response till now.

But I can understand being annoyed that everything in the place seems to need washing before you can relax and enjoy your vacation. That definitely warrants some attention from the property manager and, quite honestly, I think the OP's cleaning fee should be refunded.

I AGREE TOTALLY. I've never had an issue with anything other than 32 loads of laundry. I still think it's excessive.

Please take a look at the pics again, Duffy, as I added one just for you showing the note attached to the washer/dryer from management asking that towels be washed and dried before leaving.

I never doubted you, I actually had to remind several other posters, reminding them that you had to do that.

I only questioned if this is the rule, or the exception. Apparently it's the rule.

Duffy,

Not trying to pick on you, just trying to discuss. Can you phantom the idea that I did ten loads in four days? Yes, they were small loads as I did them in order to have clean towels for the next day.

Small loads!! That's the reason why so many!! Finally a valid explanation!! Did you know that if you wash a regular load, you will end up with more clean clothes at the end of the cycle??? If you only wash one or two towels, you'll get one or two clean ones when they're done. If you were to wash 6, you'd get six clean ones! How does washing only small loads get you more clean towels for the next day?? It takes just as long to wash a regular load as a small one-or am I imagining it?

Also, I have a regular sized washer and dryer and I shove my bedspread in there to wash, it is a king sized bed spread.

Well, good for you, but I can't fit a king-size comforter-which is what the original poster said they had, not a spread-in my washer.

I'm wondering if when you stayed at condos, maybe you did not realize you were to throw in a load of towels before you left? Where have you stayed where this was not a requirement.

I worked at a ski resort in Pa. But that was a long time ago, over 15 years, more recently I've stayed at SeaMist resort in Mass., and at Mt. Snow in Vermont, just this summer. I'm going to call all three of them on Friday, and ask about this, just out of curiosity. We certainly had no such "requirement"! With all the towels at the place in Vermont, it would have been very difficult to wash them all, there were 3 bathrooms, and they had crazy-huge amounts of towels.

This is for you, Duffy

1. queen set of sheets, pillowcases, pillow shams, blanket in closet
2. 2 sets of twin sheets, 4 pillowcases + kitchen towels/washcloths/pot holders
3. queen comforter
4. twin comforter
5. twin comforter
6. extra miscellaneous sheets in top of queen room closet
7. extra sheets in top of twin room closet
8. 2 twin mattress cover + 1/2 of the zippered pillow covers on all pillows in the house.
9. king sheet set, 4 king pillowcases + other 1/2 of zippered pillow covers
10. miscellaneous towels in linen closet
11. miscellaenous towels in linen closet + dark pillow shams from king room
12. pool towels
13. bath towels - sunday (remember, there are only 6 towels in all the bathrooms. 2 in master, 2 in upstairs twin room, 2 in downstairs bathroom)
14. bath towels - monday
15. bath towels - tuesday
16. bath towels - wednesday
17. bath towels - thursday
18. bath towels - friday
19. bath towels - saturday before leaving
20. pool towels again (hubby had to do something with the kids while I was doing laundry! They needed to be washed during the week as well)
21. again, pool towels during our stay. I washed them 3 times. Once before the kids used them, and then 2 times after our use.
22. 1 king mattress cover and 1 queen mattress cover
23. and throughout the week, I did laundry for my family of 6.
24. " "
25. " "
26. " "
27. " "
28. " "
29. " "
30. " "
31. " "
32. " "

Can you sleep better now? I don't mean to get ugly, but not sure why you'd think I'm over-exaggerating the laundry ordeal when clearly you can see I wasn't over-exaggerating the rest of our issues. What exactly would I get out of claiming to do such a large amount of laundry if it weren't so? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thanks! I can finally sleep now, having concluded, in my non-professional opinion, that you are, well, I'll come right out and say it-obsessive about laundry. 10 loads of family laundry? 7 loads of bath towels? You DO wash towels after only one use.

Incidentally, my addition is fine. I said, in post #106, that I'd estimate washing all the bed linens would be 10 loads. That's about what you have here? (Loads 1-9, plus 22)

In addition, you washed loads of towels 12 times. Your family laundry-NOT INCLUDING ANY TOWELS OR BED LINENS-was 10 loads. That is a heck of lot of laundry your kids go through!

 

[happylittlefamily]

Yes, we do wash towels after every use. For me, it's about hygiene, though I know others may not feel it necessary. I'm not sure how you find my needing to do an average of 1.5 loads of clothing laundry a day for 6 people as being a tremendous amount of clothing. Ummm, 6 pairs of shorts, 6 shirts, 6 pairs of pjs, undies, bathing suits, etc. Hmmmm, not understanding where you are coming from. We were there for a week. I'm sorry, but going home with a bunch of gross dirty clothes when I have access to a washing machine while on our trip is part of the appeal of renting a home like this.

And I know you really want to play ignorant on this, but the laundry for the rental, NOT including those we had used add up to at least 14 loads of laundry. We never used the towels in the linen closet and I washed the pool towels that were in the linen closet prior to us using them because they had hair all over them. I also forgot to mention I washed all the stuffed animals/stuffed dolls they had in the house as they were dirty as well. My children wanted to play with them, since they were sitting on their beds, so I washed them so they could do so and also for the next guests kids as well.

Seriously though, you have a chip on your shoulder that, dare I say, makes you sound as though you are more familiar with this rental situation than you are claiming to be. I mean, since you are so comfortable throwing accusations around that my family is wasteful, that I'm obsessive about doing laundry, that it'd be impossible to do that many loads of laundry on my vacation (which, by the way, I agree wasn't much of a vacation at all!!) I'm sure you wouldn't mind me thinking out loud for a moment that perhaps you may know Donna or "be" Donna, who frequents the boards often enough to have known to place glasses in our townhouse before we even made a request for them because it was mentioned in this thread at the beginning of our stay? The only things you defend as being neglectful are those that are in pictures, since that happens to be the only thing that can be proven. I've never said anything to make anyone have to question if what I've said up to this point has been valid, yet you keep nit-picking something so ridiculous as how much laundry was done.

The house was filthy. Doing the laundry was never the issue. I did that for my well-being and did the additional items because I believe in treating others how I'd like to be treated. The issue is, the house was falling apart, the property management team was very rude and disrespectful to my family, they charge cleaning fees of $95 per stay when the house was NOT clean and I spent my entire vacation having to deal with cleaning it all while receiving threats of potential fees they had no right to even mention!

What I do in that townhome during my stay is my business and for them to critique where I place an item to keep my children safe or the expensive item safe from my young children is NONE of their business. They had no right to enter the property while we were out of the townhome and without receiving permission from us, unless it was for an emergency or unless we had requested they come. Neither of which had been done. Just because nosey Donna was reading the boards and happened upon my complaint, she felt she could enter the property and smooth everything over by magically pretending she knew and intended to bring glasses for us. She had clearly snooped through the townhouse while we were gone as we took the fire extinguisher off the upstairs hall wall and placed it in the air handler closet in the upstairs hallway. Nothing in there by the air handler. The note by the glasses mentioned not to remove the fire extinguisher for fire compliance issues and when we went upstairs, the fire extinguisher was back on the wall. THAT IS BOLD!! I mean, where else might she have searched before looking in the air handler closet?? 2 of my children are autistic and have ADHD, which means they have medications that are regulated and had I known someone was entering the property, I would have made sure to have taken the medication with me. There is no safe available to store your valuables, so it bothers me to know my laptops were out and she could have gotten onto that, or that we had left cash behind at the house that could easily have been taken. I'm not saying she did any of these things, but it is NOT RIGHT what we endured during our vacation at Windsor Hills and while I have tried to remain calm and cool on the basics, there is a lot of baggage that went along with that week that goes way beyond the hours spent doing laundry! I'm over the laundry, so please, let it go! Do you want me to say I only did 20 loads of laundry on my vacation? Would that make you feel better? I can do that for the sake of getting you to drop the laundry snark I guess, until you are in the position we were in, your opinion of what is consider necessary vs. obsessive really doesn't matter very much to me

 

[Beccabunny]

Anyone else want to criticize the OP for being wasteful and using towels just once? If not, let's just let Duffy get the last word and we can all move on.