Update on kids in pools

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Taswira, Please know this isn't intended as a flame. I agree with you that Disney must make the change if that is what the law demands. My concern is the lack of notice. As one who is not only not within the 30 day timeline, I'm within the 7 day timeline with TWO toddlers. We made our choice to cruise based upon two things: 1) Our past experience with an infant was GREAT, and included most of our ship time around the Mickey Pool and 2) When making the reservations and determining what to do, we specifically asked about whether it would be appropriate to take the two little girls. Flounders was described (a vast improvement from when we sailed with dd an it was impossible to get, in room sitting), but Mickey's Pool was touted by the CM. So, in our case, yes the cruise was recommended by a CM and the pool in particular was listed as an especially fun activity.

The idea isn't so much that Disney must cater to those under 3. It is rather the idea that there was a SUDDEN change, which is a drastic change for those of us with small kids (and disabled children). And that DCL hasn't done any notification. We sail next week. If I wasn't on the DIS I would not even know that it was going to be an issue. To me, that would be a major disappointment and a sour way to start the trip. If DCL informs people they can choose to cancel, know that they need to pack appropriately (ie bring more toysand activities in order to entertain the wee ones during at sea days, not run out and buy duplicate swimsuits and tons of swim diapers,etc), or shrug their shoulders as they didn't plan to swim anyway.

If a cruise line markets itself as a family vacation, and it intends to exclude those under three, they have an obligation to make it noted clearly. If you look at the literature for all of the cruise lines, it is easy to see which ones welcome children and which ones accomodate them. In my research, it seemed DCL was the only one that makes efforts to accomodate the under 3 crowd. If a ship has an area dedicated to children of that age, it seems like it would not be unreasonable to assume that the pool was open. If the pool will be closed to children under 3, or 2, or however they plan to enforce that it needs to be clearly stated in their literature. Obviously, when a change happens there will be some shock. I'm the unlucky person to get the shock. But, in that case, I think we should be given the option to cancel without penalty.

A family chooses a vacation based upon the amenities available to the family. Just like shopping for which hotel to stay at--- pool facilities are one of the most commonly shopped around for features. If someone chose to stay at HIFS and got there to find that the pools were closed, or kids didn't eat free anymore, that would be a major diappointment. And, while they didn't pay specifically for the pool, they were paying for the room, they were purchasing that room in part based upon the promise of the pool. We have chosen to make a significant investment in a vacation for our family--- we shopped around, studied are options, and carefully planned what we would do aboard, etc. As we've talked with our kids about the upcoming cruise they could care less about the ports--- they are excited about swimming in the Mickey Pool. As soon as we started making reservations, they began looking at the pictures, and that is what the older two tell their teachers about--- the pool. There is no way aroundt he fact that that pool--- specifically because it is friendly to small children because of the depth--- was an integral reason for our choice to spend all that money on our FAMILY vacation.

Will we have a good time? I hope so and I plan on it. But, it will be more difficult if we really can't put our kids in the pool. I'm especially concerned that my kids won't be allowed to go in just because they are small--- they are trained for pooping and do so in the toilet. As many people know, #2 training is often done long before #1 is complete. That's about where we are, though they are now even doing #1 on a pretty predictable schedule.
 
Jellymoon - I DO understand. I think the requirement was probably suddenly "dumped" on DCL, that maybe they had hoped to get around it but now that they can't, what good would it do to advise everyone who is about to cruise and too late to cancel? They could not allow you to cancel, because legally they are within the terms of the contract, and they don't want to suddenly empty a quarter of the ship. The cruise agreement does not specifically state that pools (<I>any</I> pool) will be available to ANYONE. It states basically that they will take you on a cruise and feed you and provide some kind of entertainment . . with <I>everything</I> subject to change. That's how travel contracts are nowadays. The fine print (in its legal terminology) even states that the photos in the brochure and on the website might not be what you get. But almost no one (except TAs) bothers to read that fine print. The only binding agreement is your actual cruise documents when issued. Someone else posted about how long it will take DCL to make changes IF they decide to do so. That's true. As much of an upset as this is for soon-to-be cruisers with little ones, you can bet DCL is tearing its hair out over all this. They will clearly state the requirements in future brochures and when they update their website. If they decide to provide more babysitting or other entertainment for infants, it MIGHT cost more money. After all, infants basically are cruising for cost of port fees only. DCL will have to make some important decisions. As for notifying those outside the 60 days who could still cancel, I imagine they will as soon as they get their act together. That's going to be A LOT of letters! But I wish all of you well you have already booked with your little ones and have to deal with this.
 
I think the requirement was probably suddenly "dumped" on DCL, that maybe they had hoped to get around it but now that they can't, what good would it do to advise everyone who is about to cruise and too late to cancel? They could not allow you to cancel, because legally they are within the terms of the contract, and they don't want to suddenly empty a quarter of the ship.

By letting families know, it helps them plan appropriately and avoid incurring additional unneeded expense. If families know their kids cn't use the pool, they will need to bring other activities from home with which to entertain the children all day, or part of the day when they had planned to be in the pool. It also means that if they know, families won't be buying jumbo packs of swim diapers, buying multiple swim suits (if they had planned on swimming every day), and cruise appropriate swimsuit coverups. It also would avoid the disappointment of going to the pool and getting in, only to be told to get out. Notification would make a HUGE difference in these areas.

Also, if DCL really thinks the pools aren't a big or important draw for these families, then they shouldn't have to worry about a quarter of the ship cancellng. If the pools were just incidental, only a few families would have an issue with it. Disney is known for customer service. By letting people know ahead of time with an apology, they will make a bigger dent in keeping customers happy rather than just socking them with it blindly when they get on ship.
 
Jellymoon - Maybe they are in such a tizzy over this that they have not really decided how to explain it to people and are fearing the backlash. They probably fear that it would upset and anger people to know, the way it has on this board. I don't know. You are right that it would help to be notified in advance. They should. But I think they may be tied up with a lot of issues right now and think parents will find other ways to amuse their little ones on the ship. Maybe they'll decide to have a whole lot more character interactions also. Not a solution, but it would be <I>something</I>. If/when any DISers do receive notice from DCL, I'm sure they'll post about it.
 

Taswira - Perfectly said.

Bottom line - DCL DID NOT make this rule. The US did. They are not the only cruise line following this rule, many are. DCL is not obligated to us for anything except feeding us while on board. They can't even guarantee that you will ever set foot on an island!! There are many people who have cruised and have never set foot on Castaway Cay. Are they upset? You bet! Can they change anything about it? No.

Go and enjoy your cruise. Your infant/toddler will never miss the pool (and you are all big enough to get over your disappointment) if your children see disappointment in you, then they will experience it. If you don't make a big deal out of it, neither will they.

HAPPY SAILING - NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO WHILE ON BOARD!
 
Is those of us that are with in days or months of going and can not cancel.

Those of you that think that taking a toddler is a bad idea and DCL does not advertise that are mistaken. Most children are spaced with in 3 years of each other and why punish the 4 1/2 by not getting to go. Disney is for families and they want our business year after year. Remember back to when your children were little.

My only concern is the day at sea............the CM I spoke with suggested paying to put my 17 month old in Flounders all day or letting him put his feet in, he obviously does not have children.

The mickey pool ws a major deciding factor when we decided to go this year. I am cancelling my October 2003 reservations and this year will make the best of it. The worst part is my DS will think he is being punished not getting to at least wade in the h20.

It is to late for us but I think this is wrong............it is discrimination of the littlest people.
 
Originally posted by buzz&woody'smom
Those of you that think that taking a toddler is a bad idea and DCL does not advertise that are mistaken.
<I>Where</I> have they marketed to get the under-3 kids? The only thing I have ever known DCL to say they offer for those under 3 is Flounders. That was stated in DCL's Cruise College, in their brochures, and on their website. I am not disagreeing with those who say they were told something by a CM, but if you read these boards you know that everyone seems to get a different story depending on which CM they speak with. I am truly sorry for those who have booked and would like to cancel but are within the 60 days. It is unfortunate and, as someone else pointed out, showing an angry or disappointed attitude in front of the kids will only contribute to the problem.
 
Taswira- Flame to you...I read your posts all day and you keep saying you are sorry for those of us with little ones under 60 days but your comments show otherwise.

And who said we were showing angy attitudes in front of our children, my 4.5 year old and 15 month old can't read or post e-mails that is why I am venting here.

Thanks for your comments, but you keep stating about what DCL advertises and such. I guess I am stupid because I assumed DCL would welcome the under the 3 crowd. No, I have never seen it in writing that DCL is yelling hey babies come jump in the mickey pool but it did not say not to swim either. I did not think we should leave our 15 month DS home so our DS who is 4.5 and has had a traumatic year could have some fun.

So hats off to you and all of your informinging posts. You obviously don't have little ones and are not set to sail in 45 days.

There are 3 points of view here, jelly moon and myself and others who have little ones and are set to sail, those of you who sympathize with the situation and those of you who think we are being ridiculous and to let it go....so I am personally letting it go.

I would not have chosen to go this year if I had known about this new policy and if I had found out I would have cancelled and spent the whole time at WDW instead of doing both the cruise & WDW.

Lastly the only angry and disappointed attitude you will see will be my toddler screaming at the top of his lungs while I explain the CM says he can put his feet in but not his body :)
 
I doubt there will ever be an agreement on this issue, and there aren't any winner for sure. But a decision has been made, and the only thing to do now is make the best of the situation, and wait to see how DCL acts in the future, based on what the needs of everyone really are. All we can do now is think of ways to help each other out. Debating about it is just going to make the negative feeling grow, and who wants to go on vacation with a negative attitude! So let's think of some new, cool, creative things for these families to do! Anyone with me, or is it a lost cause of a too optimistic person?
 
Originally posted by taswira
, that's why it MIGHT be a possibility that they will revise their marketing to families with school age kids and maybe eventually even get rid of Flounders. That would still provide a huge customer base for them.
I sure hope you are wrong Tawira This is a ridiculous comment.Many school age children have siblings who are not potty trained. What do you suggest we leave our other childen at home. How SAD that DCL sees a family vacation as time when your under 3 year old should have to sit in babysitting.
BTW you obviously do not vacation with children as it would be close to impossible for a child under 3 to understand why they can't go in the pool that appears to be made JUST FOR THEM.Who else would want to swim in inches of water.
 
Originally posted by buzz&woody'smom
Taswira- Flame to you...I read your posts all day and you keep saying you are sorry for those of us with little ones under 60 days but your comments show otherwise.
My comment about angry parents was NOT directed at you personally. <I>Some</I> people on the DIS have posted about how they'll have to explain to their kids "what Disney has done to them." If you <I>had</I> told me where that advertising was, I would have apologized for my mistake. That was why I asked. With that, I shall make everyone here happy and bow out to let those who feel better griping about what DCL has done <I>to</I> them - and is not doing <I>for</I> them - happier.
 
ouch, I really don't like all this arguing, can't we call a truce? The only solution right now is to make the best of the situation.
 
We should understand WHY DCL is doing this. Yesterday it was reported that DOZENS of people got sick on one of Royal Caribbean's ships, suffering from Vomiting and Diarhea. I guarantee if any of your children got sick on DCL due to BACTERIA in a pool, people would be SCREAMING!! Why would you want to put your children and other children at risk? Several people posted that they knew of children that got seriously ill and even died from E-coli. My childrens tantrums wouldn't be worth exposing them. As Taswira stated, many of us grew up envious of what our older siblings were doing. When my older sister drove, my parents only had to tell me that I wasn't old enough. I have twins, and for odd reasons there have been times in their lives when one was allowed to do something the other couldn't. Kids are resilient and will get over it.

Would you be Willing to PAY more for your small children to Cruise? Currently most of you are only paying taxes and port charges for your under three children to cruise on DCL. DCL is one of the few cruiselines that does this. Would you be willing to pay the normal childrens rates if DCL remodeled to provide more activities for your children?

just my .02 worth.......

smiles Patty
 
Bottom line - DCL DID NOT make this rule. The US did. They are not the only cruise line following this rule, many are.
Just an FYI, since the ship is not registered in the US, it is registered in the Bahamas, they do not HAVE to follow US rules (not saying they wouldn't, or shouldn't, just stating the truth here)

I have plenty more that I could say but won't. My suggestion remains as I said earlier, if you are unhappy with the situation (as I am and many others are) then send an email to DCL and let them know how you feel and why. Spell it out reasonably, and let them know how it will effect your future cruising plans. I sent one last night. The link to the email is a couple of pages back on this thread.

Sue Ellen
 
I think many of you are missing the point. No one wants to endanger the health of anyone.But there should be an alternative.My ds is only an infant so I wouldn;t put him in the pols anyway but had he been a little older I would be very disappointed.I think DCL should really try to find some activities for the younger crowd, and Yes I would pay the same price I pay for my dds to go.
Obviously this new rule is warranted but I think DCL is acting quite irresponsibly by not informing cruisers with young ones.How would a child feel if for months he looks at pics of the Mickey Pool and can't wait to get in Then gets there and finds out he can't. At least if they knew in advace the parents could lessen the blow.I also think DCL should allow cancellations based on this fact.If people really were cruising for use of the pool then they would cancel The rest would take it in stride and makr the best of it.
I just hope those of you with disappointed children can find something for them to do.
JMHO






















:) ;) :) :) :) :)
 
I'm a little surprised to hear some people actually suggest that Disney ignore the policy because the ship is not US based. I can't help but wonder if (heaven forbid) someone's child had actually gotten seriously ill or even died from contracting a disease from the pool while on board. Everyone would be up in arms about the "lack" of health regualtions surrounding the pool. IT's amazing--and almost even reminds me of all the smokers who have contracted cancer and are now sueing the tobacco companies.

And before you jump to any conclusions...I do have a 2yo, with another on the way, and we have cruised several times with our little one. Yes, we used the Mickey pool, but no, it wasn't the end all to our day. We spent alot of time strolling around deck, visiting the characters, eating, etc....

Have you ever seen the Mickey pool? It is QUITE questionable as far as cleanliness goes. When we visited it (usually in late afternoon), the water was murky, and there were alot of mysterious things floating in it. It was almost enough for me to seriously consider not using it in the future.
 
Originally posted by redpants
I'm a little surprised to hear some people actually suggest that Disney ignore the policy because the ship is not US based. I can't help but wonder if (heaven forbid) someone's child had actually gotten seriously ill or even died from contracting a disease from the pool while on board. Everyone would be up in arms about the "lack" of health regualtions surrounding the pool. IT's amazing--and almost even reminds me of all the smokers who have contracted cancer and are now sueing the tobacco companies.

If you will actually READ my post it clearly states that I am NOT saying they shouldn't follow the rules, just that they don't HAVE to as someone else posted. I wouldn't want my child or any other child to get sick because of pool water--but for heaven's sake, that is a RARE occurance.

Sue Ellen
 
Originally posted by peagreenid
Would you be Willing to PAY more for your small children to Cruise? /B]


I would be MORE than happy to pay the rate that parents with older kids pay if they offered comparable activities for my child.

However, I recall a thread where someone won a cruise and felt she was treated badly by a CM. Most everyone jumped in to give her big *hugs* and say that she should be treated well no matter WHAT she did or did not pay for the cruise, so I believe that our little ones, no matter WHAT we've paid for them to sail, deserve the same treatment.

As you may or may not have noticed, none of us with children under 3 years old are looking for Disney to babysit our kids. If they were to use the Pool we would have to be there supervising them. What MOST of us are asking is that Disney come up with some activites that we can take our bathroom challenged children to that would be new and different for them. Playing with their little plastic keys in the stateroom or in their stroller while Mommy and Daddy pushes them around deck 4 isn't exactly anything that could be called an experience.

Kathy
 
Not as rare as we thought? Maybe DCL is trying to be proactive to prevent a very bad situation... So they made a quick decision, and will face the consequences in order to be safe... and once they feel it out some, they will make the needed changes to make everyone happy? Anyway.... another interesting and informative website...http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/swimming_germs010525.html
 
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