Update: Disney lobbies for ticket law changes - Bill Passed

[Rumors Rocks]

http://www.wdwinfo.com/news/General_Disney_News/Disney_lobbies_for_ticket_law_changes.htm

Walt Disney World is asking Florida lawmakers to change the state's ticket laws so they would more clearly include the MagicBands, part of the new MyMagic+ system. The wristbands will act as park ticket, room keys and have charging privileges. The current law currently uses the term "multiuse tickets," but Disney would like it to be reworded so it doesn't only include regular printed tickets, but also includes "any right designed for admission."

One other change Disney hopes for is in the wording of the section discussing illegally reselling multiuse passes. This has been a big problem lately for Disney, as well as other local theme parks. It is currently illegal to resell or transfer tickets that say "nontransferable; must be used by the same person on all days." The MagicBands would not have that wording printed on them, both from a practical standpoint, as well as an aesthetic one. Disney plans to make various version of the bands available (presumably for sale), so guests can choose their own design. Because of this, Disney would like the bill to say that the phrase must be found on the park's website instead of directly on the pass itself.

Click link for further details...

 

[3happydancers]

http://www.wdwinfo.com/news/General_Disney_News/Disney_lobbies_for_ticket_law_changes.htm

Thanks for sharing!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Gee....

anyone wanna put odds on whether they get it or not?

 

[swebb0310]

I think those sound like reasonable requests. I'm curious about the magic bands. It will be interesting to see how those come about.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

~It sounds like Disney is turning up the heat on illegal ticket resellers. The current fine is $500 -- if the new bill gets passed it jumps to a $10,000 maximum! And, repeat offenders will be charged with a felony.

 

[seashoreCM]

Florida does not need a law.

Disney can make whatever rules it wants to regarding use of its admission tickets.

 

[marius97]

Florida does not need a law.

Disney can make whatever rules it wants to regarding use of its admission tickets.

Yes, Disney can make any rule they want, but the only penalty they can enforce is taking the ticket and banning the person from the parks. They want something with a bit more teeth behind it.

 

[Srbright]

Yes, Disney can make any rule they want, but the only penalty they can enforce is taking the ticket and banning the person from the parks. They want something with a bit more teeth behind it.

And they pump enough money into the Florida economy that they are likely to get it.

Stacy

 

[DCTooTall]

Florida does not need a law.

Disney can make whatever rules it wants to regarding use of its admission tickets.

Yes, Disney can make any rule they want, but the only penalty they can enforce is taking the ticket and banning the person from the parks. They want something with a bit more teeth behind it.

... And that means that the only people really being hurt by this are the uninformed saps who ended up buying used ticket online or at one of illegal ticket resellers around the area.

Family of 4 buys a ticket at a great discount thinking they found a great deal. Goes to the park to try and use them.... Disney takes the ticket, says "sorry, these aren't valid because they are not transferable". The Family then needs to pay Disney to buy legitimate tickets, and there is no guarantee they'll be able to get their money back from the person who scammed them.

Best case.... Disney gets a black eye in the eyes of that family because the family has to jump thru the hoops of getting a legit ticket.... and they manage to get a refund from the scammer. Worst case... Family gets pissed at Disney. Disney loses the income from trying to highly discount or comp some tickets to the family to keep them happy. Scammer gets away scott free and the Family never gets their money back.



I have no problem whatsoever with these laws. I see it less as a way for the parks to protect themselves... and more as a way to protect all those tourists coming to the area from another subset of crooks out to rip them off. There's also, for the state, The lost revenue from taxes which those scam artists aren't paying on their illegal tickets. And it just makes sense that a fine/punishment should actually act as a deterrent instead of a slap on the wrist..... a $500 fine for someone making $200 a ticket is no big deal. They may get caught once or twice, but they've made thousands from all the times they didn't get caught.

 

[jcb]

I'm ok with Disney being able to prevent resale of the tickets. Personally, i think the policy stinks, but I also believe Disney, as a condition of selling the ticket, has the right to prevent ticket resellers from defrauding the public with "transferable tickets" (http://www.disunplugged.com/2012/06/26/disney-sues-unauthorized-ticket-resellers-in-orlando/).

This bill stinks, however. What bothers me about it (copy here: http://myfloridahouse.org/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=50731) is that, if it passes, it is possible for a guest to be fined as much as $10,000 without ever being told that the ticket they are offering for resale is not "transferable" much less that Florida law prohibits ticket resales. (Look at page 8 of the bill.) Sure, Disney will probably continue to say ticket resales are prohibited on its website or probably even on the sales contract, if any. That isn't the point. This bill criminalizes offering to sell mult-day tickets whether or not the original seller says resales are prohibited.

The problem will be compounded by the fact that prior law require the ticket to say it was not transferrable.

 

[cobright]

JCB, The bill changes the law so that ONLY multi-use tickets that are labeled "Transferable" may be sold.

That seems like an easy thing for people to remember. Does it say "Transferable" anywhere on it? No? Okay then I can't sell it.

 

[jcb]

JCB, The bill changes the law so that ONLY multi-use tickets that are labeled "Transferable" may be sold.

That seems like an easy thing for people to remember. Does it say "Transferable" anywhere on it? No? Okay then I can't sell it.

That is what the law says but I am not making my point very well. How is a guest supposed to "remember" something they are never told they can't do?

Suppose a state imposes a $10,000 fine for driving without your lights on when it is raining. Do you think it fair to fine out of state drivers without any advance notice?

I'm simply saying that the law is flawed because it doesn't require sellers to give some kind of pre-purchase notice that transfers are prohibited.

 

[arthuruscg]

I am curios about internet ticket sales. Part of the premis of the recent federal/ state sales tax laws is that the purchase happens as the location of the purchaser. Example: I am on a computer in Maryland and purchase WDW tickets. Maryland deemed the purchase happened in Maryland and therefor would not be bound by Florida Laws but by Maryland.

I can't wait for a lawyer to try.

I feel it is not right for any company to preventing a person from reselling, period. Example: I buy a book, I should be able to sell the book to someone else. I buy 5 days worth of admission to Six Flags but only use 3 days. I should be able to sell the remaining 2 days.

 

[tigmickey]

I think the law is being written so Disney/Universal can go after those that are selling the illegal tickets not the family that is using it.

I know that Disney takes name/address info if you are caught using the illegal tickets. They would probably enforce "serial" buyers of illegal tickets.

 

[TheShea's]

Not sure how Disney gets the "black eye" if a family buys grey market tickets and Disney doesn't honor them. Same as if I buy scalped Red Sox tickets in Kenmore Sq. If I get to the ticket scanner at the gate and my ticket is bogus my beef isn't with the Sox, it's with the person who scammed me and actually falls squarely on my shoulders. In trying to save a buck or two I took a calculated risk and got burned.

 

[mm1971]

JCB, The bill changes the law so that ONLY multi-use tickets that are labeled "Transferable" may be sold.

That seems like an easy thing for people to remember. Does it say "Transferable" anywhere on it? No? Okay then I can't sell it.

That is what the law says but I am not making my point very well. How is a guest supposed to "remember" something they are never told they can't do?

Suppose a state imposes a $10,000 fine for driving without your lights on when it is raining. Do you think it fair to fine out of state drivers without any advance notice?

I'm simply saying that the law is flawed because it doesn't require sellers to give some kind of pre-purchase notice that transfers are prohibited.

I just happened to have an older ticket in a scrap book that states "non-transferrable" right on it. Imagine that. So why would anyone need to remember it cannot be transferred and why would someone else buy a ticket stating such? Guests are informed that the tickets are not transferrable once used and if they miss that part of the purchase, having to get fingerprinted should help them to figure it out.

Licensed sellers do have the information in the terms and conditions of the sale. Sorry, while I was growing up my parent taught me ignorance is not an excuse. I also find it pretty unlikely Disney is going press a $10,000 fine on any guest. It is designed to go after the illegal seller.

 

[fflmaster]

I am curios about internet ticket sales. Part of the premis of the recent federal/ state sales tax laws is that the purchase happens as the location of the purchaser. Example: I am on a computer in Maryland and purchase WDW tickets. Maryland deemed the purchase happened in Maryland and therefor would not be bound by Florida Laws but by Maryland.

I can't wait for a lawyer to try.

I feel it is not right for any company to preventing a person from reselling, period. Example: I buy a book, I should be able to sell the book to someone else. I buy 5 days worth of admission to Six Flags but only use 3 days. I should be able to sell the remaining 2 days.

You should only be allowed to see those 2 remaining days IF you paid the full price for EACH day.

With Disney they discount the ticket the more days you purchase.

Therefore, you SHOULD NOT be able to sell a two day (the two days you didn't use) ticket at a price higher then the discount given by disney.

So if you want to sell the ticket for say for the $23 difference between a 3 day and 5 day ticket then I would be fine.

However, Disney isn't going to be fine with this. Just imagine how busy the parks would be if you could get real "allowed" park tickets for the $23 on ebay. Damn sign me up for a bunch.

 

[Lewisc]

I feel it is not right for any company to preventing a person from reselling, period. Example: I buy a book, I should be able to sell the book to someone else. I buy 5 days worth of admission to Six Flags but only use 3 days. I should be able to sell the remaining 2 days.

Should your "logic" apply to annual passed? Disney deeply discounts extra days MYW tickets but only for one person's use.

 

[DCTooTall]

I'm ok with Disney being able to prevent resale of the tickets. Personally, i think the policy stinks, but I also believe Disney, as a condition of selling the ticket, has the right to prevent ticket resellers from defrauding the public with "transferable tickets" (http://www.disunplugged.com/2012/06/26/disney-sues-unauthorized-ticket-resellers-in-orlando/).

This bill stinks, however. What bothers me about it (copy here: http://myfloridahouse.org/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=50731) is that, if it passes, it is possible for a guest to be fined as much as $10,000 without ever being told that the ticket they are offering for resale is not "transferable" much less that Florida law prohibits ticket resales. (Look at page 8 of the bill.) Sure, Disney will probably continue to say ticket resales are prohibited on its website or probably even on the sales contract, if any. That isn't the point. This bill criminalizes offering to sell mult-day tickets whether or not the original seller says resales are prohibited.

The problem will be compounded by the fact that prior law require the ticket to say it was not transferrable.

I understand your concern about the way the law is written. I'm thinking however that there could be questions on how to write the law in such a way to prevent the illegal mass ticket reseller from being able to get around it, while still protecting that family of 6 from Minnesota who bought 10 day tickets for the once in a lifetime trip but only used 7 days and found some ticket reseller who said they'd buy the unused days.

This unfortunately could become a case of a law being written with the idea being that they'd only prosecute and enforce the law when it comes to the big time abusers. (think how technically you could be pulled over for speeding at 1 or 2 miles over the speed limit, but generally you are given a 10-15mph cushion before a cop will enforce the law and pull you over.....not including special circumstances that increase the danger such as school or construction zones)

I am curios about internet ticket sales. Part of the premis of the recent federal/ state sales tax laws is that the purchase happens as the location of the purchaser. Example: I am on a computer in Maryland and purchase WDW tickets. Maryland deemed the purchase happened in Maryland and therefor would not be bound by Florida Laws but by Maryland.

I can't wait for a lawyer to try.

I feel it is not right for any company to preventing a person from reselling, period. Example: I buy a book, I should be able to sell the book to someone else. I buy 5 days worth of admission to Six Flags but only use 3 days. I should be able to sell the remaining 2 days.

I think because you are buying goods that will be used in Florida, it wouldn't fall under the sales tax laws that are being passed. In most states the existing sales tax/use tax laws were written where as a consumer you were SUPPOSED to keep track of items bought over state lines and pay the appropriate sales taxes in your local area at the end of the year. (usually credit given for any sales taxes paid in the district purchased.). The online sales tax laws now being passed are to try and remove the loophole that has resulted in the taxes not being collected by forcing the internet seller to collect them instead of relying on the honor system of the purchaser paying them.

As the tickets are a form of admission into a physical location located in the florida district, it wouldn't be subject to the local sales taxes in maryland.


As for the six flags ticket analogy.... It doesn't quite work. The tickets you buy from Disney aren't a book of tickets where you get 6 individual tickets. It's more like the box of 12 individually wrapped twinkees you bought at the local supermarket. The box is labeled as "Not for Individual sale" because the item is priced cheaper for your buying in bulk than it would be if you just bought 12 twinkees by themselves. A Seller of goods has the right to apply some limitations to your ability to resell the items sold to you when they sell you something with a bulk discount applied. They can't prevent you from reselling the exact same thing they sold you, but they can limit your ability to break apart what they sold you to sell parts of it.

Not sure how Disney gets the "black eye" if a family buys grey market tickets and Disney doesn't honor them. Same as if I buy scalped Red Sox tickets in Kenmore Sq. If I get to the ticket scanner at the gate and my ticket is bogus my beef isn't with the Sox, it's with the person who scammed me and actually falls squarely on my shoulders. In trying to save a buck or two I took a calculated risk and got burned.

The problem is that not everyone realizes it's a scalper. These mass ticket resellers often present themselves as selling legitimate tickets. For a family who doesn't know much about the parks, or what an authorized ticket seller is, They have no reason to doubt that these are legitimate tickets. All they know is that they just paid $300 for 7 day tickets (which seems reasonable since back home their local park only charges $50 per day) and not Disney is saying they can't use them.

 

[TheShea's]

Caveat emptor.

If the buyer gets scammed by a scammer I fail to see how Disney should take any bad press on that.

Feel bad for the scammed family. Maybe.

Feel like Disney owes the scammed family anything? Not at all. Get in line and buy a ticket like everyone else.