United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[jiminyC_fan]

The suing doesn't matter, they're killed in the court of public opinion. I live in an echochamber (except the Dis which is a daily *** for me) and all my serious flying friends are done and trading miles and preferences like mad. Look at the hit their market cap took today. China is outraged especially (different issue) and we/they don't even know what that will mean for them.

Heck, I booked a flight with them just today for next January. I will be flying next month to Europe with them. I have miles with them that I am in no means in a rush to use or dump. I will continue to use their CC. I am pretty sure that I am not the only one. The way I see it so far is that most airlines have the same procedure with over booking including the beloved SWA. United isn't alone with this idea and procedure but that fact seems to get lost over the outrage. United didn't drag him off the plane. Security did. Yes, security was called by United after he refused. They didn't know that it would escalate to that degree. The man should have acted like an adult so some of this is on his shoulders. There is so much speculation and rumors on this thread that keeps getting repeated and then it becomes fact. There are arm chair lawyers posting their beliefs and passing them off as law. Not one of us was on that flight so we don't know the whole truth. Even witnesses have different accounts of what transpired.

Don't even get me started about the stupid legging incident. Nothing wrong once again with what United did. Other airlines have the same procedures for buddy passes.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Heck, I booked a flight with them just today for next January. I will be flying next month to Europe with them. I have miles with them that I am in no means in a rush to use or dump. I will continue to use their CC. I am pretty sure that I am not the only one. The way I see it so far is that most airlines have the same procedure with over booking including the beloved SWA. United isn't alone with this idea and procedure but that fact seems to get lost over the outrage. United didn't drag him off the plane. Security did. Yes, security was called by United after he refused. They didn't know that it would escalate to that degree. The man should have acted like an adult so some of this is on his shoulders. There is so much speculation and rumors on this thread that keeps getting repeated and then it becomes fact. There are arm chair lawyers posting their beliefs and passing them off as law. Not one of us was on that flight so we don't know the whole truth. Even witnesses have different accounts of what transpired.

Don't even get me started about the stupid legging incident. Nothing wrong once again with what United did. Other airlines have the same procedures for buddy passes.

Well, that part is definitely true.

And I've really enjoyed how the media has used this opportunity to mention the leggings "scandal" again even after it was proven that it was neither scandalous nor unique to United!

 

[amberpi]

Don't even get me started about the stupid legging incident. Nothing wrong once again with what United did. Other airlines have the same procedures for buddy passes.

That's cool for you. I disagree, NBD. I asked the 4 lawyers that work for me right now and they had pretty clear thoughts, which I'm going with, but again, we all get to have our opinions and fly with whoever we want - beauty of capitalism. I can always hope for better passenger protection though

I completely agree with you on the leggings thing - that was the rule. Kinda dumb, but the rule. I HATED the way that it was initially reported as a general passenger being denied. That aggravated me SO much, just the crappy reporting. I thought one thing at first, then heard the complete story and couldn't believe it was news. ERGH.

 

[mummabear]

They overbook too.

And you know this how?

Sad is the fact that people feel sorry for someone who didn't listen to what he was told to do, and adult refused to do what he was told to do by a private business well within their right, Im so sad. Guess i was raised differently, with respecting other people and what not......

Becuase the United staff and security were showing this man and the other passangers so much respect well kicking them off of a service he had paid for in favour of carrying their own staff....

Agreed. I would have been very forcefully expressing my horror at witnessing violence in front of me. I've never even really seen a fight go down. I did have to watch football once or twice.

I think I would have attempting to lead a chant of "let him stay"

So I agree that this should have happened at the gate (at least I think that's what you're saying). They didn't remove him because of criminal actions- they removed him because he refused to cooperate. What I want to know, though, is this: what would you have them do differently? Let's say they maxed out on what they could offer, and still no one budged. What then? They can involuntarily bump people. That's pretty much their only option at that point. And remember, this guy isn't the only person they bumped. The couple before him left peacefully. They didn't talk back to security, they didn't get removed, they didn't stall the whole flight for hours. Those are rational adults. This guy wasn't behaving rationally. People are removed from flights all the time for being disruptive or drunk. Say this guy refused to follow orders during take off or landing. You can get into trouble for that too. And that does make him a danger to the flight.

No their option was to bump no one and find another solution for the staff, either getting this crew to their next flight or getting another crew to that flight.

and faith leaving once again....honestly how can anyone think that this type of behavior of the passenger is ok. Read your tickets and agreements people its a private business they can tell you your not flying and thats that they were well within their right. How would anyone here that said it was wrong get him off the plane without touching him... the answer is you wouldnt have, then what a standoff in aisle 12.
I just dont get how someone can condone his actions, if he would have acted like an adult this never wuold have happened period.

It may be a "private" business but an industry that required the public tax dollars to bail them out not that long ago. And if the United staff had acted liked adults and done their jobs correctly he wouldnt have been in that position.

Heck, I booked a flight with them just today for next January. I will be flying next month to Europe with them. I have miles with them that I am in no means in a rush to use or dump. I will continue to use their CC. I am pretty sure that I am not the only one. The way I see it so far is that most airlines have the same procedure with over booking including the beloved SWA. United isn't alone with this idea and procedure but that fact seems to get lost over the outrage. United didn't drag him off the plane. Security did. Yes, security was called by United after he refused. They didn't know that it would escalate to that degree. The man should have acted like an adult so some of this is on his shoulders. There is so much speculation and rumors on this thread that keeps getting repeated and then it becomes fact. There are arm chair lawyers posting their beliefs and passing them off as law. Not one of us was on that flight so we don't know the whole truth. Even witnesses have different accounts of what transpired.

Don't even get me started about the stupid legging incident. Nothing wrong once again with what United did. Other airlines have the same procedures for buddy passes.

I know all the truth I need to. I am not intrested in flying with any business that was okay with this encounter.

As far as the attacks on a man not "acting like an adult", he was peacefully protesting, he seems to be in a full blown panic attack once the secuirty put their hands on him. The intent of the law is to be able to remove those that are a safety risk, he was not. United winding someone up then calling them beligerent is some serious BS. They think they are a law unto themselves, that they can make poor business descions and make them their customers problem, then blame the customers.

 

[amberpi]

Several friends have told me that SWA is awesome but their prices usually suck out of SeaTac. I used to dislike Delta too, but now I use it and Alaska about equally. Delta seems to have gotten better and I like the comfort leg room option. Alaska has a monopoly out of my home town, but they're better than both United and American anyway, which I try to avoid, so I don't mind the monopoly there so much.

SWA can be more expensive, but they fly on time! If they don't beat me up, they can put me in a cardboard box for all I care, I'm pretty small, I'm easy to transport Now that I think about it, I think everytime I've been to Seattle it's been on United. Love your city!

 

[Westcoastwild]

That's cool for you. I disagree, NBD. I asked the 4 lawyers that work for me right now and they had pretty clear thoughts, which I'm going with, but again, we all get to have our opinions and fly with whoever we want - beauty of capitalism. I can always hope for better passenger protection though

I completely agree with you on the leggings thing - that was the rule. Kinda dumb, but the rule. I HATED the way that it was initially reported as a general passenger being denied. That aggravated me SO much, just the crappy reporting. I thought one thing at first, then heard the complete story and couldn't believe it was news. ERGH.

I was pretty sure that story was BS when it came out. I fly in yoga pants all the time because I take a lot of red eyes and I feel down right dressed up compared to some of my fellow passengers. Saw a grown man last flight wearing spongebob pj pants.

Do those lawyers specialize in airline law though? Cause if they don't, they're armchair lawyering like the rest of us.

 

[amberpi]

Do those lawyers specialize in airline law though? Cause if they don't, they're armchair lawyering like the rest of us.

No, but they are my contract guys. And, tbh, they love to tell me I'm wrong when I can't override them based on a business decision.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Heck, I booked a flight with them just today for next January. I will be flying next month to Europe with them. I have miles with them that I am in no means in a rush to use or dump. I will continue to use their CC. I am pretty sure that I am not the only one. The way I see it so far is that most airlines have the same procedure with over booking including the beloved SWA. United isn't alone with this idea and procedure but that fact seems to get lost over the outrage. United didn't drag him off the plane. Security did. Yes, security was called by United after he refused. They didn't know that it would escalate to that degree. The man should have acted like an adult so some of this is on his shoulders. There is so much speculation and rumors on this thread that keeps getting repeated and then it becomes fact. There are arm chair lawyers posting their beliefs and passing them off as law. Not one of us was on that flight so we don't know the whole truth. Even witnesses have different accounts of what transpired.

Don't even get me started about the stupid legging incident. Nothing wrong once again with what United did. Other airlines have the same procedures for buddy passes.

1. Southwest's overbook policy is quite different from United. First off, anyone can check if their flight is overbooked any time they want. Secondly, if one has their boarding pass with Southwest, they won't be the ones involuntarily denied boarding. If they volunteer they get $100 if they can get to their destination within two hours of time scheduled or $300 if they cannot as either a voucher or a check for their trouble. Those that do not have boarding passes if they are involuntarily denied boarding but can get on another flight within two hours, they automatically get double the cost of their one way flight as either a voucher or a check at the choice of the customer. If one cannot get on another flight within two hours, they automatically get four times the cost of their flight as either a voucher or a check, customer's choice. The time that counts for these figures is the arrival time. Their over booking policy and compensation is hands down better than United's and it isn't even close.

2. further, United decided last minute to dead head a crew after they had already seated the passenger. That really isn't overbooking in the normal sense.

3. United was absolutely in the wrong here your attempt to name call the victim and portray him as childish notwithstanding. Even their CEO admitted that today.

 

[Westcoastwild]

SWA can be more expensive, but they fly on time! If they don't beat me up, they can put me in a cardboard box for all I care, I'm pretty small, I'm easy to transport Now that I think about it, I think everytime I've been to Seattle it's been on United. Love your city!

I tend to leave quite a bit of wiggle room in terms of connections so flying on time isn't a huge deal for me. Although snowpacolypse was brutal this year- I was in SeaTac in front of the departures board when Alaska started their ultimate cancellation wave of 2017 . I love Seattle too! How do you like Nashville? I've got cousins in Missouri and they suggested I relocate to the south for a lower COL, so I've been investigating possibilities. I love the PNW but if I paid less in mortgage or rent I'd have a LOT more money to travel.

 

[amberpi]

I was pretty sure that story was BS when it came out. I fly in yoga pants all the time because I take a lot of red eyes and I feel down right dressed up compared to some of my fellow passengers. Saw a grown man last flight wearing spongebob pj pants.

I was in a courthouse recently when part of the courthouse was hearing criminal cases about the time civil proceedings where being heard across the hall. I literally saw a young mans butt crack. I believe the pjs on a plane. I do the same thing on red eyes - yoga pants and a blazer, that's why at first I was pissed about the United story - then the facts trickled in slowly.

 

[Westcoastwild]

1. Southwest's overbook policy is quite different from United. First off, anyone can check if their flight is overbooked any time they want. Secondly, if one has their boarding pass with Southwest, they won't be the ones involuntarily denied boarding. If they volunteer they get $100 if they can get to their destination within two hours of time scheduled or $300 if they cannot as either a voucher or a check for their trouble. Those that do not have boarding passes if they are involuntarily denied boarding but can get on another flight within two hours, they automatically get double the cost of their one way flight as either a voucher or a check at the choice of the customer. If one cannot get on another flight within two hours, they automatically get four times the cost of their flight as either a voucher or a check, customer's choice. The time that counts for these figures is the arrival time. Their over booking policy and compensation is hands down better than United's and it isn't even close.

2. further, United decided last minute to dead head a crew after they had already seated the passenger. That really isn't overbooking in the normal sense.

3. United was absolutely in the wrong here your attempt to name call the victim and portray him as childish notwithstanding. Even their CEO admitted that today.

Thanks for sharing that. The policy is much better than United, and makes me more inclined to pay a premium for SWA. But I've yet to have a pleasant trip on with UA so it's hard to be worse than them.

 

[amberpi]

I tend to leave quite a bit of wiggle room in terms of connections so flying on time isn't a huge deal for me. Although snowpacolypse was brutal this year- I was in SeaTac in front of the departures board when Alaska started their ultimate cancellation wave of 2017 . I love Seattle too! How do you like Nashville? I've got cousins in Missouri and they suggested I relocate to the south for a lower COL, so I've been investigating possibilities. I love the PNW but if I paid less in mortgage or rent I'd have a LOT more money to travel.

I tend to be working pretty tight on time. I'm actually leaving tomorrow at 9:55 to Chicago for a 1:00 meeting and hoping to catch the 5ish home, or another flight, that's just how it is for me! Nashville can be great! I live in a great area, but Nashville is the new Austin/Portland. If you like that, you'd LOVE my neighborhood. I can walk to amazing, restaurants, bars, parks, the farmers market. I love it. A lot of it can be suburbia in the bad way too though, and the rural areas would be a huge difference from Seattle. Nashville's the Athens of the South for a reason (or because they built the Parthenon replica here, whatever). The people are really nice and its really green, so you might like that!

 

[wilkeliza]

Thanks for sharing that. The policy is much better than United, and makes me more inclined to pay a premium for SWA. But I've yet to have a pleasant trip on with UA so it's hard to be worse than them.

Is Jetblue available in your area. Prices are usually cheaper than the legacy airlines and the still have a no overbooking policy. They only time the bump is due to last minute plane changes where they go from a bigger plane to a small one. Last year their record sucked (I was never bumped and never heard any asking for anyone to be bumped) but in 2015 they only had 21 bumps the entire year. So I think 2016 wa shust a fluke.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I was in a courthouse recently when part of the courthouse was hearing criminal cases about the time civil proceedings where being heard across the hall. I literally saw a young mans butt crack. I believe the pjs on a plane. I do the same thing on red eyes - yoga pants and a blazer, that's why at first I was pissed about the United story - then the facts trickled in slowly.

I cannot BELIEVE it had not occured to me to pair a blazer with my yoga pants! Awesome! I don't like to look sloppy but I don't sleep if I'm wearing tailored clothing or skirts. That is going in my repertoire, thanks so much. The things I learn here

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

They info coming out from fellow passangers was that he was calm until the officers touched him.

That's not the whole story I heard. This is why we conduct full investigations before indicting officers or anyone else. Goodness knows that those who jump to conclusions about conduct in these instances have VERY often been VERY wrong. That was my point. We only see what happens as one officer appears to decide to pull him out of his seat -- nothing before. That context does matter when evaluating officer conduct, though as I said, certainly does not look good from what we can see.

Wrt United, we know the unbelievable list of bad judgment calls they made.

 

[MillauFr]

The way I see it so far is that most airlines have the same procedure with over booking including the beloved SWA. United isn't alone with this idea and procedure but that fact seems to get lost over the outrage.

The rate of over booking varies widely by airline. Look at the rate of involuntary bumping vs. voluntary bumping. A well run airline like Delta gives its gate agents wide latitude to handle these types of situations before they spiral out of control. United has very strict polices developed by lawyers and bean counters. The difference shows in customer satisfaction surveys. The current United CEO was doing a decent job pulling the airline out a death spiral that they were in a few years ago. Now I fear they are likely to devolve into chaos again.

Look at the market share at an Airport like SeaTac. United used to be one of the top airlines here 20 years ago. They have been decimated by Alaska and Delta who offer far better service at the same price. United used to have an entire terminal here. Now they have just a couple of gates.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I haven't noticed much difference between united and delta in recent years. Had decent experiences with Alaska, but JetBlue beats them all hands down.

I didn't know seats could be as close together as the last delta flight I took. I never saw as much overbooking before, as I did recently with united.

Greyhound in the sky (greyhound circa 2001).

 

[Westcoastwild]

Is Jetblue available in your area. Prices are usually cheaper than the legacy airlines and the still have a no overbooking policy. They only time the bump is due to last minute plane changes where they go from a bigger plane to a small one. Last year their record sucked (I was never bumped and never heard any asking for anyone to be bumped) but in 2015 they only had 21 bumps the entire year. So I think 2016 wa shust a fluke.

It's available but really only affordable going to select destinations- mostly NYC. And sometimes the schedule just won't work for my needs. It's really annoying to get to SeaTac during rush hour so morning flights are usually out, and that's often what JetBlue is.
Anyway, order of the usual suspects from cheapest to most expensive- super budget (spirit/frontier), Delta, Alaska, United, American, JetBlue, southwest. Usually, Delta gives me the most nonstop options, so that's what I go with. I think Alaskan is a little more reliable but less leg room.

United/American are my "well, it can't be worse than last time" options. (It always is. ALWAYS. It's like they try at hitting a new low.) My experience with discount European carriers like Norwegian and Icelandair were downright nirvana compared to United. Heck, easyjet had better customer service than my last flight with United and easyjet stranded me in Rome for 15 hours due to a "malfunctioning wheel". Let my fellow passengers and I stand in line for 4 hours to receive hotel vouchers. Another two hours to get the luggage back. Woke us up at 4 am the next day to fly us out. And still managed to make me like them for than I like United.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Sad is the fact that people feel sorry for someone who didn't listen to what he was told to do, and adult refused to do what he was told to do by a private business well within their right, Im so sad. Guess i was raised differently, with respecting other people and what not......

no empathy for someone who made a conscious decision to not listen to authorities

Even if someone thinks it was within United's right to do what they did, It is certainly possible for anyone with even a basic level of human decency To feel sorry for the guy that got beat up at the same time. That you not only feel none, but feel sad that anyone does is astonishing. You talk of respect. Yet you show none.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I cannot BELIEVE it had not occured to me to pair a blazer with my yoga pants! Awesome! I don't like to look sloppy but I don't sleep if I'm wearing tailored clothing or skirts. That is going in my repertoire, thanks so much. The things I learn here

Being a dedicated follower of fashion that I am, the next big trend in fashion will be the yoga blazer.