United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[sunshinehighway]

They could have - flown those 4 employees on other airlines. They could have rented a car and driven them to Louisville. They could have offered more actual money (not vouchers). They could have offered seats on other competing airlines. They could have done any number of things besides what they did. But they chose for whatever reason to physically drag a man down the aisle of a plane with a bloody face. When is saying no considered unruly and belligerent. When did we become so afraid of (who exactly are we afraid of - airlines? govt? police?) whomever that we simply go along with whatever because someone in a uniform wants us to.

Yes exactly. There were plenty of other ways to handle it. If they had talked to the man and bothered to hear what his issue was with being bumped, they could have resolved the situation by other ways. The attitude I'm seeing in United responses is they didn't need to do that because they didn't have to accommodate the passenger, their authority was supreme. It's just a bad way to treat people.
I don't want to fly on an airline that has that attitude. I want to know that yes issues can arise but the airline understands that I'm important and they will take my needs into consideration and work with me to find a solution.

 

[Wendy31]

This is so simple.

Reports are that their offer maxed out at $800. If they kept increasing -- and apparently NOTHING PREVENTS THEM FROM DOING THAT -- they would have had VOLUNTEERS instead of removing 4 paying customers because of their mismanagement.

Once they realized their escalation literally had them in a standoff with a customer because of THEIR MISMANAGEMENT, maybe revisit the idea of upping that payoff, no??

Seems simple to me.

And I'm not saying they shouldn't have kept offering cash until they got to whatever their max is, but they didn't.

That's not how they chose to move forward.

They decided to randomly bump however many other people they needed off the plane for their seats.

The doctor's name came up.

They asked him to get off the plane. He refused. He wouldn't budge.

At THAT POINT (regardless of what they *should have done* before that point), what should they have done? At the point he refused, their only recourse was to force him off the plane.

It's somewhat sad and disturbing that people are actually describing his behavior as belligerent and unruly. There's really nothing to indicate he was either of those things. Are we really at a point where standing up for yourself or questioning the decision of "authority" automatically means you are belligerent?

His behavior before he was randomly bumped was not belligerent or unruly, but, once he refused & wouldn't get up from his seat, he was being belligerent.

Was United supposed to just say, "Oh, you're right, Sir. We shouldn't have asked you. We'll move on to the next person. Or better yet, we'll just go ahead & fly the plane & leave a whole other terminal of people waiting since we can't get our employees where they need to be."

Obviously, there is a time & place to stand up for yourself & question authority & campaign for change.

This wasn't it.

It is entitled behavior to think rules don't apply to you. What made him more special & worthier to stay on the plane than any of the other passengers? Again, you fly knowing you can be bumped.

Regardless of HOW United should have handled the situation before it got to the point of asking the doctor to leave, they didn't. They decided to randomly bump some people after their initial offers were declined.

I actually don't think the way they handled it was very good customer service & think it could have been handled better. But, bottom line, randomly bumping people was they way they chose to handle the situation. At that point, if your name comes up, you need to get off the plane.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

And I'm not saying they shouldn't have kept offering cash until they got to whatever their max is, but they didn't.

That's not how they chose to move forward.

They decided to randomly bump however many other people they needed off the plane for their seats.

The doctor's name came up.

They asked him to get off the plane. He refused. He wouldn't budge.

At THAT POINT (regardless of what they *should have done* before that point), what should they have done? At the point he refused, their only recourse was to force him off the plane.

Short version: UNITED MISHANDLED.

 

[Wendy31]

Yes exactly. There were plenty of other ways to handle it. If they had talked to the man and bothered to hear what his issue was with being bumped, they could have resolved the situation by other ways. The attitude I'm seeing in United responses is they didn't need to do that because they didn't have to accommodate the passenger, their authority was supreme. It's just a bad way to treat people.
I don't want to fly on an airline that has that attitude. I want to know that yes issues can arise but the airline understands that I'm important and they will take my needs into consideration and work with me to find a solution.

But who is to say they wouldn't have worked w/ him to find a solution?

Maybe they had another flight they were going to put him on.

 

[amberpi]

Ok, so we now know that they stopped at $800 voucher. Never tried cash at any point. They could have avoided all of this for a couple thousand $ for 4 people. Cash talks for getting people to act.

 

[ShayBells]

If you listen real carefully you can hear the sigh of relief coming from Pepsi co.

 

[Westcoastwild]

What if your dad had an appointment with this doctor the next day, and ended up getting sick or dying because he couldn't be seen?

And what would prevent another doctor from attending the patient? Or putting the guy onto a life flight to a bigger hospital with a doctor of the same specialty? Hospitals have backup plans in case doctors are sick or unable to attend to their critical patients for some reason. Say you go into labor when your obgyn is on vacation- a doctor will still deliver your baby.

There really aren't that many situations I can think of that would be seriously impacted by a flight delay. Not being able to see a dying relative one last time, sure, but that's a race against the clock anyway. Failure to appear in court, maybe, but I think in many cases they would delay the proceedings. Miss a wedding or funeral...well, if you're getting married, they'll wait for you, or if you're necessary, they'll wait for you.

I'm not saying it isn't an inconvenience or a bummer. If I missed a friend's wedding or funeral due to a bumped flight, I'd be really upset. But it probably wouldn't have a lasting impact on my life or anyone else's life. And just because he is a doctor doesn't necessarily make whatever he has to get back for more important than whatever the other passengers are returning for. He may only have to reschedule an appointment. The lady next to him might have to find someone to watch her kids one more night. Or the guy behind him might miss his connecting flight. My point is that everyone thinks their lives are important. I don't think his profession gives him an advantage over any of the other passengers.

 

[gotomu212]

The company has lost $600 million today in market capital. 600 MILLION and one of their biggest shareholders has come out and said he's disgusted with this behavior. I stand by my opinion that you may have the legal right to remove someone from your plane, but at a cost of $600 million maybe you should come up with another solution.

 

[DisBabe94]

But who is to say they wouldn't have worked w/ him to find a solution?

Maybe they had another flight they were going to put him on.

Then why wouldn't they have said those things to him or to all of the passengers when they were trying to get volunteers? If they had been willing to work with the passengers to find a solution then this would have never happened! But they didn't, and it did! So I really don't understand what theoretical situation you are trying to present here but it does not reflect the reality of what happened. They didn't attempt to work with any of the passengers. They reached $800 voucher and a hotel stay and had no takers so they resorted to the random pick method. That's it.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

At the point, he's an unruly passenger, & United is within their rights to force him off the plane.

That's not the point anymore. A company/a company employee shouldn't do something that ends up with this:



We actually have training about it in my company, calling it reputational risk. Many company's have many 'contractual rights' they don't enforce, just for this reason.

 

[twinklebug]

And I'm not saying they shouldn't have kept offering cash until they got to whatever their max is, but they didn't.

That's not how they chose to move forward.

They decided to randomly bump however many other people they needed off the plane for their seats.

The doctor's name came up.

They asked him to get off the plane. He refused. He wouldn't budge.

At THAT POINT (regardless of what they *should have done* before that point), what should they have done? At the point he refused, their only recourse was to force him off the plane.



His behavior before he was randomly bumped was not belligerent or unruly, but, once he refused & wouldn't get up from his seat, he was being belligerent.

Was United supposed to just say, "Oh, you're right, Sir. We shouldn't have asked you. We'll move on to the next person. Or better yet, we'll just go ahead & fly the plane & leave a whole other terminal of people waiting since we can't get our employees where they need to be."

Obviously, there is a time & place to stand up for yourself & question authority & campaign for change.

This wasn't it.

It is entitled behavior to think rules don't apply to you. What made him more special & worthier to stay on the plane than any of the other passengers? Again, you fly knowing you can be bumped.

Regardless of HOW United should have handled the situation before it got to the point of asking the doctor to leave, they didn't. They decided to randomly bump some people after their initial offers were declined.

I actually don't think the way they handled it was very good customer service & think it could have been handled better. But, bottom line, randomly bumping people was they way they chose to handle the situation. At that point, if your name comes up, you need to get off the plane.

If you listen to his screaming, it's quite clear the man was in a full blown panic attack. This was not just some entitled attitude he had taken on, although announcing that he was a doctor was playing a card to see if that would pass him by, which clearly did not work.

When someone demonstrates anxiety as he did, they should have backed down and called in someone to sit with him, make sure he was okay mentally and physically, and then if so, work to negotiate with him.

Just as you would not detain someone who had a medical need to get to their destination, you do not want to provoke issues that can cause bigger problems for someone medically, anxiety is one.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Airlines reserve the right to bump any paying customer to another flight. And how long should they have gone on offering things when no one was willing to get off? They couldn't hold up the flight. And no one was still willing to get off even when they saw what was happening to the man.

United could definitely have handled it with more tact, but the man's reaction was way over the top. Disobeying law enforcement and creating a public scene to the point you are physically injured? Over a flight delay?! Would he have reacted in the same manner if the flight was canceled? It's just a bizarre reaction. The other 3 people dealt with it normally.

If they had upped their offer they'd have easily had takers within 5 minutes and been on their way and it would have cost them a sum of probably oh maybe $2.000. $5000 or so at the outside most. Instead what resulted was a delay of over two hours, probably 6 figures in a lawsuit and a 6 figure drop (It was over half a billion at one point) in market cap due to their stock falling all caused by a lack of even basic human decency on full display for everyone to see.

 

[Gracie09]

But who is to say they wouldn't have worked w/ him to find a solution?

Maybe they had another flight they were going to put him on.

They could have deescalated the situation. Talk to him and find out his issue with going tomorrow. See what they could do to make him ok with taking another flight. Talk to him like a human and not drag him on the floor bloodied like an animal.

 

[disney4us2002]

It's somewhat sad and disturbing that people are actually describing his behavior as belligerent and unruly. There's really nothing to indicate he was either of those things. Are we really at a point where standing up for yourself or questioning the decision of "authority" automatically means you are belligerent?

He refused to leave and threw himself about landing on the floor and being dragged. That definitely fits my definition of unruly, maybe not quite belligerent. This is not behavior I find acceptable in an adult and would probably feel unsafe flying with him. Once he was selected, he needed to go.

 

[Gracie09]

They didn't choose that. Calling for uniformed law enforcement (although these guys weren't armed) is SOP when anyone is to be removed from a plane. The basic idea is that typically the uniform creates a greater likelihood of compliance, where someone decides it's not worth it to resist the order to leave.

so comply or get injured? Is that what we have become as a society? You don't do exactly what we want when we want it or we will beat you into submission.

 

[sunshinehighway]

He refused to leave and threw himself about landing on the floor and being dragged. That definitely fits my definition of unruly, maybe not quite belligerent. This is not behavior I find acceptable in an adult and would probably feel unsafe flying with him. Once he was selected, he needed to go.

You've got to be kidding.

 

[Gracie09]

He refused to leave and threw himself about landing on the floor and being dragged. That definitely fits my definition of unruly, maybe not quite belligerent. This is not behavior I find acceptable in an adult and would probably feel unsafe flying with him. Once he was selected, he needed to go.

I'm sorry you must have watched a different set of videos than I did. The police officers and United employees physically picked him up and then dropped him on the armrest causing injuries to his face and then proceeded to dragged him by his feet down the aisle. That is not behavior I find acceptable by anyone.

 

[brockash]

Well I can't speak for her of course but my reaction would have probably been the same. I would have been saying in my head and it might have slipped out a few times as well. Actually what might have been running through my mind is not DIS approved words. I assure you I would not have been looking to make it worse or trying to do anything but rather an honest reaction to what I was seeing..as in disbelief, shock, surprise, never thought I'd see this reaction.

ITA! I can't imagine the lady was "trying to do" anything...I'm sure she was shocked, disgusted, and confused and had genuine concern for the victim, just as most decent human beings would.

 

[sunshinehighway]

so comply or get injured? Is that what we have become as a society? You don't do exactly what we want when we want it or we will beat you into submission.

It's an argument I see repeated over and over on these boards...silently and immediately comply like a good little robot or you get what you deserve.

 

[Wendy31]

They could have - flown those 4 employees on other airlines. They could have rented a car and driven them to Louisville. They could have offered more actual money (not vouchers). They could have offered seats on other competing airlines. They could have done any number of things besides what they did. But they chose for whatever reason to physically drag a man down the aisle of a plane with a bloody face. When is saying no considered unruly and belligerent. When did we become so afraid of (who exactly are we afraid of - airlines? govt? police?) whomever that we simply go along with whatever because someone in a uniform wants us to.

Because we live in a civilized society with rules & regulations? And, hopefully, not all of us have "it's all about me" attitudes.

If I had been on the plane & it had been my name, I would have been beyond annoyed, but I would have gotten up. I wouldn't just sit there & refuse to move. And there's no way I'm going to be dragged down the aisle of a plane. Would anyone here have refused to get up?

Of course, they could have done a million different things. But they didn't.

Good customer service? No. But that's a completely different topic. I think it's awful how good customer service has declined, & I think airlines are some of the worst when it comes to good customer service. Obviously, things need to change, & better policies should be in place.

But, regardless, they informed him that his name had come up & regrettably he'd have to deboard. He refused & wouldn't budge from his seat.

What a stubborn, entitled attitude! (And I don't think his screaming sounded panicked. It sounded crazy.) I'm sorry. I'm not a fan of people who think rules don't apply to them & think that causing scenes will get them their way.

And, yes, United has lost millions over this. I'm not surprised. We live in social media viral world w/ lots of social justice warriors.

And, again, I'm not saying United shouldn't have handled it a million different ways. I'm not saying the employees don't need training on how to handle situations like this.

I'm not saying they were necessarily right. There were probably better solutions. United was crazy & had to know how this whole thing would blow up.

I just don't understand what United was supposed to do once he refused. Just continue to hold the plane up? "Okay, sir, you won't do it for $800. How about $1,000? Not $1,000? How's $1,500? Not that either. Well, okay then. Let's just sit here for a while."

Yes, they might have been wrong for allowing the situation to get to that point, but, for whatever reason, it did get to the point they were randomly bumping people off a loaded plane.

United may have been wrong in allowing the situation to get the point it did, but the passenger was wrong too.