Unique retirement plans

[Denise W]

Sorry, this posted two extra times.

 

[Denise W]

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[Colleen27]

Once you exceed 30 consecutive nights in a hotel, you are considered acrtenant and both you and the hotel are subject to different laws and restrictions than a typical hotel guest. I'm sure there are exemptions for extended stay properties, but i don't feel like searching tonight.

It probably varies from place to place, since most landlord-tenant law is a matter of state law. I don't remember where we were that our hotel had a clause in the fine print that caught my eye about stays longer than 30 days requiring the guest check out and check back in. My guess at the time was that was a way of avoiding the relationship being reclassified from hotel/guest to landlord/tenant. I wouldn't be surprised if some states allowed for lodging contracts to have fine print waiving residency rights completely.

It's easy at this stage of my life to envy the idea of a permanent vacation but in reality for me it sounds a little sad and lonely. Given our circumstances we're looking at a pretty modest lifestyle during retirement but I do image it as being filled with much more time for family and friends than we have now, and much more time to be involved in our community and church. I wouldn't just take off and leave everyone and everything behind, even if I could.

I think that comes down to a difference in personality, just like how some people love traveling solo and others don't enjoy the trip as much without someone to share it with. I would *love* a retirement of casual socializing on my own terms, like you can do with fellow travelers in a resort or cruise setting. If you're in the mood to chat, it is easy enough to meet friendly people. But if you want to spend some time alone, there's no one knocking on the door expecting you to go out.

My retirement home will be a box in the ground. Won't cost me a thing.

You obviously haven't paid for any funerals lately.

 

[mrodgers]

You obviously haven't paid for any funerals lately.

I'll be dead. The kids can toss me in the river for all I care, I won't be paying a dime for it as I'll be dead and will cease to have any money or possessions at that point.

 

[tvguy]

I'll be dead. The kids can toss me in the river for all I care, I won't be paying a dime for it as I'll be dead and will cease to have any money or possessions at that point.

Rivers of America at Disneyland? This is a Disney board.

 

[Colleen27]

I'll be dead. The kids can toss me in the river for all I care, I won't be paying a dime for it as I'll be dead and will cease to have any money or possessions at that point.

I told my kids they can do this with me... https://www.google.com/amp/amp.fox9...found-with-message-in-bottle-on-florida-beach

My 17yo said she'll even set up a dedicated email address and Instagram to track my afterlife travels.

 

[John VN]

We have several senior communities here that offer everything from senior apartments up to full skilled nursing care on the same site. You move through the various levels of care are you need to. There is a one time cost of like $250,000. The one closest to me has 400 residents, so there are apparently enough people out there who can fork over the cash for that. I think most are folks who sell their homes and use the money to buy into what will be their final residence.

Typically the BOLD plus monthly fees with actual dollar amount depending on original contract stipulations.

DW's aunt/husband bought into a facility (signed contract) 20+ years ago with lump sum PLUS monthly fee. He died, she is now 90+ with age related issues moving through transitions and making out like a bandit since they signed YEARS AGO and she lives on.

 

[OhMari]

A nursing assistant in a nursing home can make more money as a chik fila employee, Aldi cashier, or school bus monitor. The nursing homes here pay $8-10/hr for such an important and extremely physically demanding job.

Nurses in those places don't fare much better, often making less than or the same as a new grad nurse in a hospital, or the same they could make in a doctor's office, home health. case management, or utilization review type position.

In addition to the lower pay, the working conditions are awful and it really takes a toll on yournody and your mental well being when you give 100% of yourself to provide the best care possible, but there just aren't enough staff to adequately provide for all the needs. I don't do that type of care, but I know that the days when I can't spend quality time with my patients are the days when I feel like I have failed them.

So I think its unfair to say "the younger generation does not want to work in nursing homes." Nobody would want to work in those conditions, especially when the paycheck provided won't pay the bills.

I totally agree with you. Sorry, I am just saying the younger generation will not even attempt to work in the industry. And the people that do like yourself are burnt out and cannot afford the low wages that are paid.

Me and my dh both have our parents living yet and they are in their 80’s. They both have told us that they want to continue to live in their homes. For their safety, modifications need to be made. We told them, they need to start making these changes now and pay to get them made, otherwise, they will be falling, breaking hips, etc.

 

[tvguy]

I totally agree with you. Sorry, I am just saying the younger generation will not even attempt to work in the industry. And the people that do like yourself are burnt out and cannot afford the low wages that are paid..

Like I posted early, I dealt with this 6 years ago with my mom. All of the employees were in their 20's, immigrants from either South Africa, the Philippines or Indonesia. Not a single American. Just like wait staff and housekeeping staff on cruise ships, they are recruited by independent companies to come work in the U.S. The care home operators pay a finders fee to the recruiting company, sponsor them and secure work visas for them, pay to fly them to the U.S. and back home when their visa expires. They are on duty 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in exchange for a small salary, room & board. Unlike cruise ships which follow the labor laws of the nations they are registered in, I'm not sure how ( or if) U.S. Labor law allows the care home owners to pay less than minimum wage since they are providing room and board, and covering the expenses of getting these workers here.

 

[lovemygoofy]

So my mom is in nursing home and has been for last year in no where AR. This facility is outstanding with wonderful, caring people.
They are of all ages but mostly mid 20s and up. Oh and American mostly local from no where AR who are helpful, compassionate and passionate about their jobs.
There very low turnover and all the staff knows the residents names, needs, wants, and routines.

Many people freak out thinking of nursing homes because of what is given up to live in one but sometimes to extend quality of life hard choices has to be made.
I made the most difficult choice last year and have been blessed with such good place and people. My mom is happy, healthy, and more functioning than she has been in years thanks to care she receives. All homes are not created equal and like anything else people have to do the work to find the great ones but they are out there.

 

[snappy]

I've never heard of this and it piques my interest. I wonder what the ongoing expenses are like once you've paid that one-time cost.

I'm not at that point in my life yet, but my parents probably will be sooner rather than later. Can't hurt to start thinking about it.

These communities are called continuing care retirement facilities (CCRC). My mom has lived in one since 2015. If you buy in at the independent living stage like my mom, you have what they call a life care contract. You pay a six figure fee (starts at more than $200,000 and can go much higher). Your buy in can be non-refundable to your heirs after you pass or you can pay more for a 90% refundable contract. When you need it there are other levels of care, assisted living, 24 hour nursing care, memory care. There is also a monthly fee that starts at more than $2,500 per month. If you have life care your monthly fees don’t increase when you require more care, as the additional cost uscci erred by the initial buy in. Both the buy in and the monthly fees depends on the size and upgrades of unit you pick. You can also enter as non life-care, and pay the going rate for assisted living ($6,000 am month minimum) or $300 a day in the 24 hour skilled nursing unit. There are other retirement communities in our city, but this is the only one that has a CCRC. There is another in New Orleans, and one north of Lake Ponchartrain.

 

[PollyannaMom]

A) Realistic Retirement -
...1) If DS has kids - retire near them and help out as long as I can
...2) If DS doesn't have kids -
.......a) if DH is still with me - probably Florida, similar to where my folks are now, and whatever travel we can afford
.......b) if DH has passed first - one of those retirement residences where you step levels *
B) Fantasy (winning of the lottery) Retirement - Disney World, of course!!!

Do they even let you stay at a hotel that long? I thought they kicked you out after a certain amount of time, so that the hotel doesn't become a lodging house and then can't evict you for nonpayment.

I thought, and I admit I really am not that into it to do research at the moment, that many hotels impose a maximum number of nights you can stay in a row because after a certain number of times you become a resident. That may bring up a whole host of legal issues.

I am sure there are ways to work around these exceptions, but not completely sure it is as simple as it seems.

To get around this rule, I'll simply change resorts every 28 days.


* I remember when I was in college, an older neighbor of mine had moved into a retirement community, and our letters (yes, I'm an old soul, and we wrote paper letters) always sounded so similar - this dorm/senior activity or that one, joining our residence councils, etc. I've always thought I wanted to be like her in my retirement.

 

[MrsPete]

I plan to live in my paid for home as long as I can. No need to pay rent.

As long as you're able, this is certainly the cheapest way to live in retirement ... and as you need more help, hire it. Perhaps you'd need to hire lawn care, then later add housekeeping, etc. If you go out only a few times a week, taking Ubers is cheaper than maintaining a car.

Investigate what type of services are available in your area. The single best thing my grandmother had in her last years was Meals on Wheels. Five days a week someone was in her house (briefly) to bring her a meal. The short visit was just as valuable to her as the food. She also had access to transportation, but she wouldn't use it because "that was for poor people" -- no, not really, but it was her perception.

Consider, too, that you might need help before you're really "old". My neighbor is early 60s and just went into a retirement home. These are the years he should be able to travel, to spoil his grandchildren -- but, instead, he has early onset Alzheimer's, and his wife kept him at home as long as she could ... but she could not care for him /keep him safe all the time -- she even retired early to provide him with full-time care. I think she sees him daily and brings him home often, but he can't sleep in his own house anymore. Of course, this isn't typical.

I think the whole industry is going to be making changes. The biggest and scariest scenario, is the younger generation does not want to work in the nursing homes. I think the major news was saying this week, how nursing homes are closing because of lack of help.

Eh, I don't think previous generations chomped at the bit to work in nursing homes either -- but they liked having a paycheck. I think the thing is today, the people who would've worked in the nursing homes (service industry, just-over-minimum wage folks) have more options; for example, fast food or a job at the mall probably pays about the same amount.

It's true, though, that nursing home beds are not easy to find. My RN-daughter has mentioned several old ladies "stuck in the hospital" because they couldn't go home and live alone (no children? no willing children?), yet no nursing home bed was available for them. And we, the taxpayers, were paying to keep them in the hospital. They're taking up hospital space that others may need. So much wrong with this situation ... but how to fix it?

Like I said, I believe nursing homes are not something ANYONE would or should choose as a way to spend their retirement.

Whether you're talking about a nice place or a Medicaid bed, I don't think anyone "retires to" a nursing home. Nursing homes are for your elderly-elderly years. Your last years. I doubt anyone PLANS to finish up his last day of work on Friday and move into a nursing home on Monday ... I think everyone expects some good years in between. Oh, it'll happen to someone ... someone will have a terrible stroke and end up going straight to nursing care, but no one plans for that.

I'd like to have a nomadic retirement. My husband and I differ on what that would look like - he'd like an RV for extended travels and our current house as our "home base"

I think lots of people are interested in such a retirement ... but it'd be wise, too, to have a safety-net plan in mind. A health crisis could throw a real monkey wrench into these plans. If one of you became ill or lost mobility (you can't have a walker in an RV, after all), where would you go? Having a plan is always wise.

Once you exceed 30 consecutive nights in a hotel, you are considered acrtenant and both you and the hotel are subject to different laws and restrictions than a typical hotel guest. I'm sure there are exemptions for extended stay properties, but i don't feel like searching tonight

As long as they're being paid, why would they care how long you stay?

I'll be dead. The kids can toss me in the river for all I care, I won't be paying a dime for it as I'll be dead and will cease to have any money or possessions at that point.

The rest of the town might object to your dead body floating in their river.
If you really don't care, consider donating your body to science ... or a body farm.

Yes, and you need to get into the private facilities with a certain amount of money in your name (for my dad the minimum was $300,000/3 years private pay). Otherwise you won’t be considered for a Medicaid bed.

You really, really don't want to be considered for a Medicaid bed.

Many people freak out thinking of nursing homes because of what is given up to live in one but sometimes to extend quality of life hard choices has to be made.

I think this varies widely, but once you're talking about a nursing home, I don't think "quality of life" is in the cards. Assisted living, yes ... but in full-on nursing care, much is already gone.

 

[mnrose]

As long as they're being paid, why would they care how long you stay?
.

In some jurisdictions, a stay over 30 days makes you a "tenant" entitled to the rights and protections available under landlord/tenant law. For example, the right to a hearing before being evicted, even for non-payment of rent. In some states, eviction can take MONTHS, all while the "tenant" is not paying. Pretty sure hotels don't want that! They want "transient" traffic, not "forever" tenants.

 

[barkley]

We have several senior communities here that offer everything from senior apartments up to full skilled nursing care on the same site. You move through the various levels of care are you need to. There is a one time cost of like $250,000. The one closest to me has 400 residents, so there are apparently enough people out there who can fork over the cash for that. I think most are folks who sell their homes and use the money to buy into what will be their final residence.

we looked at something similar in northern california about 15 years ago with my mom. it was a hard NO when we looked at the fine print. the issue we saw that was concerning involved what happened in situations wherein a resident had an illness or injury that put them into another level of care but only temporarily. the places we saw would 'hold' the residents current level apartment/room only for a fixed period of time (something like 30 days) after which all items would have to be removed and stored (at resident's cost) and when they recovered enough to return back to that level of care they would be assigned whatever was available in that level. so in a situation like subsequently happened to my mom-a trip that caused a broken shoulder putting her in nursing/rehab care for a couple of months but still independent upon recovery- she would have gone from her apartment to the hospital back to the residence's nursing care and then whatever entry level unit was available. just too confusing and overwhelming for allot of elderly folks esp. when a strong consideration of every place we looked at was for her-the specific location and layout of individual units. we saw some NICE places but the units available weren't to her liking re. proximity to elevators/laundry/dining...

I know several elderly people (my MIL, currently 84, and my aunt, currently 92) who will not use any medical care save for antibiotics should they develop an easily treated infection or similar and palliative care. They both are quite adamant that if they develop cancer, they will not do chemotherapy. Nor will they get further "screening" exams....what's the point they both say as they have no plans to "treat" any serious illness anyway. It's a decision I see myself making at some point myself.

similar reasoning goes for those who specifically choose to retire to states that have death w/dignity laws on the books.

 

[ronandannette]

Yes, and you need to get into the private facilities with a certain amount of money in your name (for my dad the minimum was $300,000/3 years private pay). Otherwise you won’t be considered for a Medicaid bed.

Isn't Medicaid the American form of public health care for people over age 65? What happens to the indigent elderly? There must be some provision for them - no?

 

[barkley]

Isn't Medicaid the American form of public health care for people over age 65? What happens to the indigent elderly? There must be some provision for them - no?

mediCARE is for those over 65 who meet certain criteria w/the social security system (and some disabled under that age that meet very specific/limited criteria). no income/asset limitations

mediCAID has income/asset limitations and other eligibility criteria depending on the individual state a person lives in.

some people have one or the other, some have both-it's not unusual for people to do later in life financial planning to structure their assets such that they qualify for both (i supervised a unit in a state that actually instructed people in how to do this).

 

[disykat]

A
You really, really don't want to be considered for a Medicaid bed.

Actually, you really do in the case referenced. What that poster was referring to was a private facility arrangement where if you go in with enough money, but run out prior to death, it converts to a medicare/medicaid placement. Many multi level care communities have this ability to convert, but you HAVE to have money when you go in.

 

[mnrose]

mediCARE is for those over 65 who meet certain criteria w/the social security system (and some disabled under that age that meet very specific/limited criteria). no income/asset limitations

mediCAID has income/asset limitations and other eligibility criteria depending on the individual state a person lives in.

some people have one or the other, some have both-it's not unusual for people to do later in life financial planning to structure their assets such that they qualify for both (i supervised a unit in a state that actually instructed people in how to do this).

And, MediCARE only pays for a very limited amount of time in a skilled nursing facility (it's complicated, and I'm simplifying greatly, but generally no more than 30 days). After that limited amount of time, you start paying out of your private assets. If you can't afford it, you can apply for MediCAID but your assets have to be extremely limited in order to qualify. Most people are not aware that except for short periods of "rehab", Medicare will not pay for skilled nursing facilities.

 

[barkley]

And, MediCARE only pays for a very limited amount of time in a skilled nursing facility (it's complicated, and I'm simplifying greatly, but generally no more than 30 days). After that limited amount of time, you start paying out of your private assets. If you can't afford it, you can apply for MediCAID but your assets have to be extremely limited in order to qualify. Most people are not aware that except for short periods of "rehab", Medicare will not pay for skilled nursing facilities.

(also simplified) but if med. nesc (per doctor) original mediCARE will pay all for day 1-20, days 21-100 with a co-pay ($167.50 per day in 2018).