Unfriendly Skies for Family

[bumbershoot]

...since if there'd been NO seat available United would have had to deny boarding to a passenger. After all, there are no accommodations for standees on a plane

Considering the number of times I've seen FAs knowingly allow a 2 year old to sit on a parent's lap all through takeoff etc, I actually could believe the gate agents (though I think he said it was a pilot manning the gate?) getting confused.

I think there's a miscommunication in FA school where some think the kids can be all the way through the year of being 2 before they need their own seat. Which would, if they thought about it, mean 3 and up kids need a seat, when the rule is 2 and up...but seriously, I've heard conversations between parents of 2 year olds and the FAs, and the FAs haven't banned the 2 year olds, who do not have paidfor seats, from the flight.

Sounds like the family showed up late to the gate which added to their difficulties.
There are a few things that just don't add up in this man's story.

I don't disagree with that last sentence, but the article said it was a connecting flight:

"...the flight home on United Airlines.

They flew through Washington Dulles International Airport, and when boarding the plane to Lehigh Valley International"...

It's possible they were later to the gate through no fault of their own. Possible.

 

[maxiesmom]

If the journalist is shocked by all of this, he doesn't fly much.

I am suprised that there was not a gate agent at Dulles though. Does that sort of thing happen often?

 

[NotUrsula]

You are certainly right about the journalist being ignorant. He probably flies quite often, but never with young kids.

 

[DebbieB]

If the journalist is shocked by all of this, he doesn't fly much.

I am suprised that there was not a gate agent at Dulles though. Does that sort of thing happen often?

There had to be a gate agent. The commuter terminal at Dulles is basically 1 huge room with about 10 gates. It is very noisy. It's possible the agent stepped over to another gate if they were late arriving or was out on the tarmac (they don't use jetways in that area).

I looked at United's current schedule. This route is operated by Colgan with Saab 340 aircraft, which is a prop. These planes have 12 rows with 1 seat on one side and 2 seats on the other side. So it wasn't a huge plane, about 34 seats. It's possible it was scheduled originally with a larger plane with 2 x 2 seating. The comment about no air conditioning makes sense because on a prop plane they can't operate the air conditioning unless the props are running, which they can't do with the door open (safety hazard). I've flown a couple times on these planes from Pittsburgh to Allentown, they are very cramped. I had to fly there again, I flew into Newark instead on a regular plane and drove to Allentown. That plane just made me too nervous.

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6867,51070,00.html

 

[Canyon girl]

I'm thinking the same thing. There is SO much in that article with which I have issues. Most airlines accept UNaccompanied minors by age six. They don't do background checks on the seat companions of unaccompanied minors (yes, I'm sure - while I'm entirely safe, nobody on Southwest asked me anything except, "is it okay if this child sits with you?"). Why the H would they???? The parents were ON the plane, and especially since the six year old's seat companions offered to take care of her - in an emergency they would have, and if she'd gotten sick they KNEW where to find the parents.

You and everyone else can flame me if you want. First of all, airlines take unaccompanied minors because of the children's parents' choice. I choose not to send my kids that way. I choose to have my kids sit with me. That is why I make reservations on an airline that allows me to make seat assignments. I also check for equipment changes frequently and make sure that we are at the airport early. Secondly, have you not read stories of girls/women being groped on planes? As far as these people taking care of the 6 year-old in the case of emergency, we wouldn't know if that would actually have happened unless the plane had actually gone down. Then, it would have been too late to have moved her to her parents if these older people had not helped her or had had a heart attack and had been unable to help her. My kids may be older, but they will not be sitting with strangers. If you want yours to, that is your choice. It is not mine.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You and everyone else can flame me if you want. First of all, airlines take unaccompanied minors because of the children's parents' choice. I choose not to send my kids that way

No reason to flame you. That's your decision. I don't have an issue with it.

What I do have an issue with is people who are automatically judgmental, suspicious or mistrustful of everybody on an airplane who is not them. No, I'd rather have your kid sit with you - but if for some reason he/she can't, DON'T be thinking I'm a dangerous psycopath just because you need to sit several feet, rather than several inches, from your child.

Secondly, have you not read stories of girls/women being groped on planes?

A couple. Compare this to the number of passengers daily. It's miniscule. It shouldn't happen, but the number is statistically negligible - three, four this year? Well over 350,000,000 (this http://www.ask.com/bar?q=2008+domes...BPfo8YlVW3vd4Fb8mNQ1S9cilQ=&tsp=1257481291044 site shows January to June figures at 345,000,000; reasonably, at least 100,000,000 passengers have flown since then). Again, it shouldn't happen. NO crime should, but crime happens. Four incidents out of over four hundred million passengers? That's one in a hundred million. Find any other crime statistic so low. Respectfully, most such assaults/attacks are by people known to the victim.

As far as these people taking care of the 6 year-old in the case of emergency, we wouldn't know if that would actually have happened unless the plane had actually gone down. Then, it would have been too late to have moved her to her parents if these older people had not helped her or had had a heart attack and had been unable to help her.

Just as we wouldn't know what would happen to the parents. Being "older" is relative. I've seen posts from DISers concerned about their aging parents, only to find out the parents are in their forties!!!

 

[Canyon girl]

The problem is that we don't know who is who. You might be fine, but the other person might not be. The point that I am trying to make about the couple is not know if they really would have taken care of the child in an emergency. It is just reality. Many (generalization) people who own their home take better care of it than a person who rents their home. [Renters, don't take this personally. I rent, too.] My point is that I would lay down my life for my kids. Will a stranger do the same? I am not trying to start something. I rarely read this part of the board because of some of the strong personal opinions over here. I came over to find out more about ME. It really is a personal opinion. I just don't like the generalization that all kids over 5 or 6 should be able to sit with strangers because the airline will take them that young as unaccompanied. My flight is a 4-5 hour flight. I don't think anyone would want to entertain my kids for that long!!! I'm not sure that I do!

 

[Hannathy]

You and everyone else can flame me if you want. First of all, airlines take unaccompanied minors because of the children's parents' choice. I choose not to send my kids that way. I choose to have my kids sit with me. That is why I make reservations on an airline that allows me to make seat assignments. I also check for equipment changes frequently and make sure that we are at the airport early. Secondly, have you not read stories of girls/women being groped on planes? As far as these people taking care of the 6 year-old in the case of emergency, we wouldn't know if that would actually have happened unless the plane had actually gone down. Then, it would have been too late to have moved her to her parents if these older people had not helped her or had had a heart attack and had been unable to help her. My kids may be older, but they will not be sitting with strangers. If you want yours to, that is your choice. It is not mine.

Then you should not fly!!! You better always drive everywhere because you are not guaranteed a certain seat on any form of public transportation only A seat.

 

[Canyon girl]

Then you should not fly!!! You better always drive everywhere because you are not guaranteed a certain seat on any form of public transportation only A seat.

This is exactly why I avoid the Transportation area. I am leaving now! You can have your party!!!

 

[crashbb]

This is exactly why I avoid the Transportation area. I am leaving now! You can have your party!!!

Because she pointed out a very true fact?

I wouldn't go so far as to say that you should never fly and I understand your feelings about not sitting apart from your kids, but it is totally true that even on airlines that allow you to choose your seat (heck, even on airlines that charge you for that ability), sometimes things happen and you aren't seated in the seats you had selected. It is far better to know that in advance (not just you - anyone who reads these boards) so that you can try to formulate a plan before it happens.

 

[NotUrsula]

[You would THINK that she'd want to know the truth before she embarassed herself in an airport, or worse yet, waited until she got onto the aircraft to protest and ended up being escorted out in cuffs.]

The truth is that the ONLY time that you are guaranteed a contiguous seat next to a child on a US carrier is if that child weighs less than 40 lbs, is a ticketed passenger, and is seated in an approved carseat. In those cases, US federal law requires the airline to seat a responsible adult in the party next to the child, to insure that the child is taken out of the seat in the event of an emergency evacuation. In *no* other case is it required by law, even if the child is under age 5. It is up to the airline in all other cases, and they WILL NOT guarantee contiguous seating.

It never fails to amaze me how many people just do not get this. If you want the rules changed, don't gripe to your airline. WRITE YOUR CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVE!

FWIW, I can tell you this much. If you want to always be assured of sitting next to your minor child on a domestic flight, it is best to fly SWA, because YOU control where you sit on SWA. If you show up late to the gate because of a connection, SWA passengers are more likely to be willing to trade seats, because they are NOT assigned, and for that reason the majority of SWA passengers tend not be be particularly invested in what seat they are sitting in. On carriers that assign seats, you are at the mercy of the airline when it comes to vacated seat assignments. ALL of them reserve the right to vacate those assignments at will, and don't kid yourself that they won't ever do it to you.

 

[seashoreCM]

In the linked article, the "other couple" were not stuck with attending to the 6yo. They could have swapped seats so somebody else would attend to the 6yo. When your party does not exactly fill a row, anybody else could be assigned to the remaining seat and each is expected to treat the other(s) with dignity.

Let's start a fad! When you reserve a seat on the plane for your infant*, bring a (FAA approved) car seat. This way the airline personnel will never ever ask you to lap sit the child and will ask for volunteers to be bumped if needed.

* Defined by Disney as under 3yo.

 

[DebbieB]

In the linked article, the "other couple" were not stuck with attending to the 6yo. They could have swapped seats so somebody else would attend to the 6yo. When your party does not exactly fill a row, anybody else could be assigned to the remaining seat and each is expected to treat the other(s) with dignity.

Let's start a fad! When you reserve a seat on the plane for your infant*, bring a (FAA approved) car seat. This way the airline personnel will never ever ask you to lap sit the child and will ask for volunteers to be bumped if needed.

* Defined by Disney as under 3yo.

If this was a 1 x 2 plane, how could the couple have been sitting directly with the child? If they were in the same row, the child would have been in the single seat.

 

[Hannathy]

This couple must have been very obnoxious and demanding if I had to guess because I have flown on these little planes many times and with kids and usually it is a very congenial atmosphere. It is so few people and you are in such close accommodations that it is very personal. I have had some very good interactions on these planes with complete strangers and usually more than willing to move around. I have even had people offer to move so my kids could have a window or be near me when we haven't asked. I never ask anyone to move so I can be by my kids. So IMO there again is more to this story probably.

Plus the size of these planes my goodness they hardly were any distance from the girl. it isn't like it was one of the huge international planes!

 

[ohlas]

wow im sock someone didnt just switch seats with you i have almost everytime i fly i never sit in my assigned seat lol

 

[dis-happy]

Let's start a fad! When you reserve a seat on the plane for your infant*, bring a (FAA approved) car seat. This way the airline personnel will never ever ask you to lap sit the child and will ask for volunteers to be bumped if needed.

* Defined by Disney as under 3yo.

Only in a snowflake parent's dreams. More likely to be told "sorry, this flight it overbooked and there's no room to seat you next to your carseat as mandated so we have to reschedule you both to the next available flight."

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

I've flown in puddle-jumping Saabs more times than I'd like to recall... and there isn't one seat in that particular aircraft that can't be seen by another. They are tiny. Just because the parents lack the social skills and assertiveness to even make a polite request of other travelers is not cause for a "Beware: This Could Happen To You!" article.

 

[Hannathy]

I've flown in puddle-jumping Saabs more times than I'd like to recall... and there isn't one seat in that particular aircraft that can't be seen by another. They are tiny. Just because the parents lack the social skills and assertiveness to even make a polite request of other travelers is not cause for a "Beware: This Could Happen To You!" article.

yep as my Mom would say spitting distance!!!

 

[DebbieB]

I've flown in puddle-jumping Saabs more times than I'd like to recall... and there isn't one seat in that particular aircraft that can't be seen by another. They are tiny. Just because the parents lack the social skills and assertiveness to even make a polite request of other travelers is not cause for a "Beware: This Could Happen To You!" article.

What I love on those planes is when they start moving people around for "weight and balance".

 

[Hannathy]

What I love on those planes is when they start moving people around for "weight and balance".

Yea isn't that fun? My son and I volunteered recently but were told thanks but no thanks the 2 of you combined don't weigh what usually one person does! We'd just still be moving someone else. But that usually gets some single adult who is hiding behind their newspaper to volunteer.