Under 18. Need ECV. Help!

[IheartMickey]

Or is it EVC? I keep getting it confused.

Anyway. I'm 17 and I'm going to Disney with three of my friends in June and I have RSD in one of my legs. I can't walk long distances. I'm going for epidurals in my back to see if it will work. Hopefully it will and I'll get it done right before Disney so I won't have to use the scooter. But incase I do, I don't have a problem getting a doctors note but I've read that they won't allow you to rent one if you're under 18.

We're not going with parents, but we do have someone on the trip that's 18. Will she be able to rent it for me? I don't know what I'm going to do. How can they deny a scooter to someone with a disability because of age?

 

[IheartMickey]

I'm just testing my counter and didn't want to bother anyone with a new thread. Sorry!

 

[Talking Hands]

Because manual wheelchairs are available, they are covered as far as accessibility it concerned. No one has to rent anything to a 17yo as you are not a legal adult. Sorry. And the adult has to sign that they will not allow the ECV to be used by a minor.
I was able to get around this on one trip by letting my daughter use my personal scooter while I used Disney's. TG she is now an adult and can rent one herself if needed.

 

[tink2dw]

Have you looked into renting a ECV offsite?? mabe the rules would be different with your Dr. note??


Walker Mobility:
1-888-726-6837
www.walkermobility.com

RANDY'S Mobility is in Kissimmee 407-892-4777

Colonial Medical
http://www.colonialmed.com/about_cms.html

 

[Talking Hands]

Doubtful. Renting is a contract and you cannot enter into a contract before the age of 18. Any business doing so would be up a creek if they did so and anything happened to their equipment. Legally it is not in their best interest.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I hate to say this, but you MUST consider that an ECV is a Motor Vehicle and an off-site rental ECV can travel up to 7 MPH. The normal expectation is that a person who uses an ECV has the coordination and experience to control it in a crowded situation.

As Talking Hands said, Disney will rent you a wheelchair and also that you cannot legally sign a contract with an off-site vendor if you are under 18.

Before you even consider having a friend rent one for you, I would strongly suggest you and your parents, and your friend and her parents all talk to a lawyer about liability if you run into someone. I have over 40 years of driving experience and sometimes I am scared out of my wits by people being oblivious to my existence when I am in an ECV; they walk in front without looking and stop suddenly. If I hit them, they always feel it is my fault.

I think for this trip you should figure on sticking with a wheelchair. I would expect that as you will be with three (teenage) friends they will all be healthy and be able to share in pushing your chair.

 

[IheartMickey]

We gave up on my friend renting it for me. I think my mom is going to try and call Disney and talk to them. See if they could somehow fax over the thing that needs to be signed and she'll sign it or something.

I have a big problem with wheelchairs and any sort of assistance. I was in a wheelchair for a year when I was 14. I simply refuse to use one again. After my second operation I hobbled around and walked on my splint instead of using the chair. I'm a bad patient.

But anyway. See. I refuse to use the wheelchair and bring attention to myself. The only reason I agreed to the ECV was because .. It's mechanical and I knew my friends would be like. "Oo! Cool!".

If I can't get the ECV then I pray these epidurals help if not vicidin and lidoderm patches for me.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

You said:

"But anyway. See. I refuse to use the wheelchair and bring attention to myself. The only reason I agreed to the ECV was because .. It's mechanical and I knew my friends would be like. "Oo! Cool!"."

It appears you think that using a wheelchair will attract attention, but that using an ECV will not. I don't see the difference.

Cool does not count, safety does.

Also, what attention will you bring to yourself if you run into and injure someone. There will be lawyers involved. Is your mother aware of this?

I'm sorry to have to take this tack, but the way some people drive gives all ECV users a bad reputation. I am sure Disney legal will say no to any waiver. But then again any waiver signed would protct the owner of the ECV and not the user anyway.

 

[IheartMickey]

Yeah. I know it would bring attention. Which is why I debated wanting to get one for a while. I simply refuse to use a wheelchair. I'd rather crawl on the ground then use a wheelchair. It is not meant in an offensive way to wheelchair users I just have VERY bad memories of being in one and I don't want to go back.

I think you might have to realize something too. I've been disabled since I was 12 and I won't admit to myself that I'm disabled. I can say. But I just don't get it.

Now thank you for the information and I will do my best not to run over anyone if I get one. I have a drivers liscense and I drive in one of the worst neighborhoods where people totally ignore stop signs and red lights. Plus I really doubt my friends would be walking at a very quick speed.

 

[Talking Hands]

I doubt that Disney will break the rules for you or any other teen. Eighteen is their requirement. Maybe if your Mom rents and lies about who will be using it. But then lying is not a good thing.
As one who has been disabled since my teenage years I must say get over it. Not accepting your disability does you no good. By being so stubborn you are just hurting yourself and you will regret it as you get older because you will end up in a chair fulltime faster.

 

[Wheelsie]

Welcome IheartMickey....

I know I'm a little late in getting to post. (work does that sometimes LOL)

"heart", Speaking as a woman who has been in a wheelchair all her life belive me I see your point. I'm only 29 so its been *NOT* too long ago I was a teen! I know you don't think a chiar is "cool" but I can assure you its safer for you and those around you.

Ya know I can remember growing up thinking the same things "people will stare" or "people will look at me differently if I user a wheelchair instead of an ECV" But let me say this....

They will look at you a lot stranger for getting into an ECV accident in the park, then they will for you getting in and out of a MUCH SAFER wheelchair.

This last October I went to Silver Dollar City. If you know anything about this ark there are A LOT of hills to climb!! So I (blindly w/o forethought mind you) rented an ECV. Those things are dangerous if you've not ever used one....PLUS if you have to take it with you to shop or what not you can't take it into many store...And don't get me started a/b trying to go potty w/ one of those suckers!!! LOL That was a sight in itself!

All I'm saying is this...they have 18 year old rental agreements for very good reason. I you have to know what your doing and be experienced. I'm almost 30 and couln't conttrol the stupid thing LOL

And well its more for your safelty than that of the friends that will be going eith you. People in the parks don't look where they are going so you as the handi person have to be 10 times as vigilent to watch where you are going. Its very hard to watch where you are going, where others are going, and earn to ride all at once.

And if we are speaking of your friends. A true friend would care more that you're comfortable in what your using than if you look cool riding in it.

*hug*
Just think about what I and others have said. Ultimately its up to your parents what they want to do...but your friends are your friend no matter how you sit

If you need a ear to chew on you can borrow mine anytime!

 

[commecicommeca]

I strongly disagree. I learned how to use a scooter (or an ECV as you call it) when I was 13 or 14. It took 5 minutes for the person from the scooter company to teach me how to use it. I was then able to borrow it and drive it around a large state park for a good half hour. All they needed was to hold my parents' credit card and if I had decided to wreck or keep the thing they would've seen a nice $3,000 charge.

I have been using one on a daily basis ever since I started college at age 16. When I was 17 I was refused an ECV by Disney even though my mother was with me and willing to sign any papers/waivers necessary. The reason I wanted an ECV was so my mother who has back problems herself wouldn't have to push me. I have not been in a single ECV accident and I navigate in much less accessible spaces than Disney World. I have driven through Times Square crowds without nicking anyone, yet I saw 80 year old grandmas driving into walls on Disney's rented ECVs. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it, it's just Disney has a more extreme legal policy as minors can legally disaffirm contracts. It has nothing to do w/ hitting someone...any inexperienced wheelchair pusher is much more likely to hit someone because they do not have the same line of vision as the person sitting in the chair. I've come into many more ankle collisions because of aggressive pushing rather than my own driving. Teens generally do not have less coordination than adults, and especially not less than elderly people, that is absolute BS.

Age discrimination of this sort is ridiculous and should be stopped and not encouraged.

 

[Talking Hands]

You are entitled to your opinion and frankly I agree that teens are no more dangerous than anyone else if they are regular users of an ECV. Unfortunately Disney and the rental companies have their rules and do not rent to any under 18.
Btw as I said before when it was necessary I lent my daughter my ECV and I used a rental. It was my impression though that this p[erson is not going with family but with friends.

 

[SueM in MN]

I've seen 4 year olds doing very well driving a power wheelchair, even in crowded areas, so I don't really think that lack of experience is the reason.

The OP did say she was going with friends, some of whom are just over 18. So I think it's more a situation of a minor who does not have her legal guardian with her using an expensive piece of equipment. The minor can't enter into a contract and the 18 year olds can't enter into one for her since they are not her legal guardian. Since the equipment is owned by Disney (or one of the off-site places), they can make whatever rules they want.
This situation reminded me of a story that was in the news here a few years ago. A woman (in her 40s or 50s) wanted to rent an ecv/scooter at the Mall of America, but they would not allow her to rent one since she didn't have a credit card that they could put a "hold"on until she returned it. She was claiming discrimination and unfair tactics. The final result was that the Mall of America had a reasonable right to only rent to people with credit cards, since they were basically allowing use of an expensive piece of equipment with no guarantee other than that to guarantee it would be returned in usable condition.

 

[commecicommeca]

Sue you have the right train of thought but I was in the exact same situation as the OP (17, w/ a disability, and in need of an ECV) except I was with my legal guardian, my mother, who has lots of credit cards and when we tried to argue w/ the rentals manager she said that even my mother couldn't rent it for me because I'd still be the one using it. I truly believe that the policy as it stands discriminatory as it makes generalizations about a certain population.

 

[SueM in MN]

It's sort of on the same order as the car companies that won't rent a car to someone under 21 (or I guess some do, but charge a much higher fee). I think, especially at WDW, there is a high demand for scooters. So, if they turn down an 18 yr old, they will still be able to rent it to someone older (since they sometimes run out while there is still demand). If the demand dies down, they might become more willing to deal with younger people. Then there is also the question of insurance. I'm sure that they carry insurance for damage and liability/injury on the scooters. I don't know, but would not be surprised that limiting rental to people 18 and older is probably in their insurance policy. Sort of similar to car insurance - where even a cautious 18 yr old good driver has to pay a higher price because some drivers under 21 are not cautious good drivers.
Maybe if a number of people in your situation write to Disney and state their case the way you did, Disney would come up with some conditions for people under 18 to drive their ecvs.
As you said, age doesn't have any connection with ability or good judgement. When DH and I were at WDW over New Years, sitting on the porch at MK, we saw an elderly man who should have had his scooter taken away. He was driving on the side walk in front of the train station at full speed, with his grandson on his lap, coming within a few inches of an elderly woman (I think his wife) and then coming to a quick stop or veering off just before hitting her. One time, she almost fell backwards off the curb into the street. The man was cautioned 3 times by security. I think if he had a WDW scooter, they might have confiscated it, but it was rented from an outside place.

 

[commecicommeca]

I don't see how a scooter and a car are comparable. A scooter is just a wheelchair that takes less physical effort to operate. In fact the whole ECV title itself annoys me. It's a mobility device, not a convenience vehicle. I think if demand is the problem, rentals should be based more on legitimate need rather than age. What's to stop a few 18-19 year olds from renting one of those very convenient and cool looking scooters and going on a joy ride? Why deny someone with an actual disability who happens to be underage?

I wouldn't blame them for having extra security mechanisms to decrease any damages a minor is "likely" to bring (securing credit cards, requiring a guardian to be accompanying, higher down payment, etc.) but to outright deny is wrong. Even the people behind me in line who saw the whole thing go down were totally shocked about the policy and thought I should have been allowed to rent one. One lady even said "I guess it doesn't pay to be honest around here." because when the CM asked my age I told him right away that I was 17, I wonder if he would have IDed me if I had fibbed.

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm not saying that a scooter and a car are in any way similar, just that the policies for use (which is based on age, rather than ability or judgement) are similar.
I do call them ecvs, but only because that is a name that many people know them by and that is what Disney calls them in all their maps and other literature. Whoever came up with it in the first place, did a dis-service to people who need them. They could just as easily be called electric mobility devices, mobility assistance vehicles or something else that does not imply they are being used as a convenience. And why electric? That makes it sound like you drive one around with an extension cord tethering you to the closest electrical outlet.
I think the companies first called them ecvs many years ago because they thought that would be a name that was more acceptable to people who were not ready to admit that they had a mobility disability and needed some assistance.

In terms of supply and demand - I agree with you that it's not fair to not rent them to people under 18 who need one. I mentioned supply and demand to point out that they probably don't have any incentive to rent to people under 18 because they have enough people over 18 to use the supply that they have. Since they are the owners, they make the rules, even if they are not fair rules.

 

[Nanajo1]

Someone posted in another post the the correct definition of ECV is Electric CONVEYANCE Vehicle. I think MAV (Motorized Assistive Vehicle) would be a better abbreviation

 

[SueM in MN]

Someone posted in another post the the correct definition of ECV is Electric CONVEYANCE Vehicle. I think MAV (Motorized Assistive Vehicle) would be a better abbreviation

That is a definition that a lot of people like better, but the only place I've ever seen it is in posts. Actually, I was curious how often it is used, so I put the term into google.com and came up with only 4 results (all from individual people). This is on comparison to 94 results for "electric convenience vehicle" on google (including links to the websites of most of the manufacturers).
On a positive note, the WDW Guidebook for Guest with Disabilities used to define ECV as "electric convenience vehicle", now they just list ECV with no definition, so I think they realize that the definition is not acceptable to some people.