Two new Marriott hotels planned for Flamingo Crossings

[crazy4wdw]

Looks like the developement plans for Flamingo Crossings are finally moving forward.

Disney has applied to the South Florida Management District for approval of the construction of a Marriott Springhill Suites and Marriott Townplace Suites.

Both will be located near Western Way.

http://my.sfwmd.gov/entsb/docdownload?object_id=0900eeea87e853a3

 

[Figmentforever24]

About time lol. Wonder if they would go ahead and do the Walgreens too or if they just want two hotels out there alone. Guess we will see.

 

[Bob Roberts]

They might as well connect the 192 onto property and build as many Burger Kings, Payless Shoes, Golden Corals, and Red Carpet Inns as possible.

First the handing off to the Four Seasons of the two best golf courses on property, and now this. Keep on giving away property at WDW Disney!!!! Such a great idea!!!!!!

 

[Joe in VA]

They might as well connect the 192 onto property and build as many Burger Kings, Payless Shoes, Golden Corals, and Red Carpet Inns as possible.

First the handing off to the Four Seasons of the two best golf courses on property, and now this. Keep on giving away property at WDW Disney!!!! Such a great idea!!!!!!

Very disappointing. Disney has all but valued non DVC resorts at this point, and the property is becoming less and less Disney by the year. Sad is my emotion more than anything else.

 

[Goofy1976]

Walt would be very upset if they keep messing up his vision.

 

[skylizard]

Very disappointing. Disney has all but valued non DVC resorts at this point, and the property is becoming less and less Disney by the year. Sad is my emotion more than anything else.

Do we have any idea why Disney is doing this? I can't make any sense of this...

 

[TheRustyScupper]

Do we have any idea why Disney is doing this? I can't make any sense of this...

$$$​

Any other questions?​

 

[Andrew015]

$$$​

Any other questions?​

Totally get that, but taking a little deeper look at things, a guest staying in a "non-Disney hotel" is one more guest that is NOT staying in a Disney-owned resort. Additionally, these guests will most likely have rental cars, which means they will not be "caged" as if they were "magically" shuttled from MCO to a Disney Resort. This is a little bit of a gamble for Disney, is it not? Unless of course these resorts are paying Disney a fortune, which they probably are.

If Disney's resorts were constantly at capacity, then I get the $$$ argument, as the laws of supply and demand make this a no-brainer. But to my knowledge, that is not the case, at least not during certain times of the year. Does anyone have any insight regarding Disney's Resort occupency levels?

 

[tjkraz]

This isn't much different than the Downtown Disney hotel row, Crossroads or even Celebration. In all of those cases, Disney owns (or owned) the property but it was never part of Walt Disney World proper.

Flamingo Crossing is outside the WDW gate on that side of property. It's an "off-site" development which happens to be built on the fringes of Disney property, allowing them to control and profit from the development.

I suspect the Targets and WalMarts overlooking the Magic Kingdom are still a few years away.

 

[Reddog1134]

This isn't much different than the Downtown Disney hotel row, Crossroads or even Celebration. In all of those cases, Disney owns (or owned) the property but it was never part of Walt Disney World proper.

Flamingo Crossing is outside the WDW gate on that side of property. It's an "off-site" development which happens to be built on the fringes of Disney property, allowing them to control and profit from the development.

I suspect the Targets and WalMarts overlooking the Magic Kingdom are still a few years away.

I was just going to post something similar. Flamingo Crossing is ON Disney property but OUTSIDE Walt Disney World. So technically, they aren't "tainting" the inside of their bubble.

 

[OKW Lover]

I was just going to post something similar. Flamingo Crossing is ON Disney property but OUTSIDE Walt Disney World.

Not sure I understand the distinction.

 

[Andrew015]

I was just going to post something similar. Flamingo Crossing is ON Disney property but OUTSIDE Walt Disney World. So technically, they aren't "tainting" the inside of their bubble.

Understood, but the DTD hotels have been around since WDW opened back in the early 70's (or pretty close to it). I don't understand why now, after 40 some years of building nothing but Disney-owned and operated resorts (Swan & Dolphin aside), they have now decided to revert back to that business model?

This especially conflicts their recent efforts to push people into staying in their owned / operated resorts with things like Magical Express, FP+, "free" dining, etc.

Again, I'm sure the numbers must look good to justify this new (old) trend, but it just seems strange to me for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[crazy4wdw]

Do we have any idea why Disney is doing this? I can't make any sense of this...

Disney is actually seven years behind the initial announcement in 2007 for Flamingo Crossings. At that time, Flamingo Crossings would have 4,000 to 5,000 3rd party hotel rooms along with restaurants and gift shops. After the economic downturn in 2008, no one was interested in pursuing leases for the property.

I do wonder why Disney chose now to develop the property. Seems like there are always discounts and free dining offers for the on property resorts.

 

[tjkraz]

The Flamingo Crossing site is about 1.5 miles away from Disney's Animal Kingdom, on the fringes of WDW property. Other developers have no qualms about building hotels and shopping centers 1.6 miles from DAK or 1.7 miles away. So I really don't see the harm in Disney allowing those establishments at little closer...in a location where they can maintain total control over the design and maintenance of the facilities and even the vendors allowed on site.

Walt's issue with the Disneyland / Anaheim situation was always one of control. He had enough land for the park itself but essentially no buffer from the rest of the world. Walt Disney World still has that...both the buffer and control over whatever comes into Flamingo Crossing.

People still need grocery stores, dry cleaners and pharmacies. Does it really matter if those establishments are built on Disney-owned land rather than a block away on property owned by others?

 

[tjkraz]

I do wonder why Disney chose now to develop the property. Seems like there are always discounts and free dining offers for the on property resorts.

These will never be marketed as "on property." They aren't competition for existing WDW resorts. They're competition for the Holiday Inn Express' and La Quintas among guests who don't intend to stay "on-site."

 

[Bob Roberts]

I think the problem is that selling off of WDW property to the 4Seasons and Marriot truly shows how much Iger and the bandits care about the future of WDW.

You have 20 resort hotels or so that are not selling out every night and then you give away property to your competition to build more rooms? How does the make sense for the long run? Oh yeah Iger could care less about the long run.

If it wasn't for our government manipulated low interest rates there is no way Marriort or 4 Seasons would have ever built on property.

 

[Figmentforever24]

Idk I guess people who stay there will like it since they are so close to Disney, and Disney gets the money from the businesses due to them being on that land. So in the end I guess they both win. I guess the good thing is, is that no dirty business could just come and move in. Everything is under direct and strict Disney control. They wont let this look bad or be bad in any way

 

[Reddog1134]

Not sure I understand the distinction.

It's subtle. Disney owns the land that Flamingo Crossing is built on. However, it's outside the WDW gateway that everyone takes a picture of when they arrive. So it's ON Disney owned land but outside the area they have designated as "Walt Disney World".

I think the problem is that selling off of WDW property to the 4Seasons and Marriot truly shows how much Iger and the bandits care about the future of WDW.

I don't know about Four Seasons but Disney didn't sell the land to Marriot. They still own it. They are just letting 3rd party companies build there.

If my understanding is correct, it's like DTD. Except Disney owns the land AND the buildings at DTD. At Flamingo Crossings, they only own the land.

 

[PortMickey]

The Four Seasons / Golden Oaks and Flamingo Crossings deals were done at the height of the Real Estate bubble (early 2007). I think the people behind those projects have been let go.

Flamingo Crossings was designed to take advantage of the traffic from the new 429 Expressway.

I heard the Four Seasons / Golden Oaks Land was going to be a DVC golf resort. At that time, golf courses were being over built in Florida and becoming unprofitable. Disney wanted out of the golf course business. Disney also wanted an "Official" high end resort to compete with the new Waldorf Astoria that was very close to WDW property. So to kill 2 birds with one stone, they sold off 2 golf courses to Four Seasons to build an "Official" high end resort. Arnold Palmer Golf Management took over the remaining golf courses Disney still owns. Four Seasons was originally going to build time shares in addition to the Hotel, but when the economy crashed, the hotel was delayed and the timeshares canceled. The time share land turned into Golden Oak single family homes. Obviously, Flamingo Crossings was also delayed for years.