TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[Suvadoo]

They could change from Free Dining to "Double FP+" for low seasons with purchase of an onsite package. That way the bottom line increases over a free dining offer.

Are you saying : In leui of free dining offer double FP+ ? If so it's an interesting idea. I just wonder how they could make that work for HS or Epcot.

 

[cakebaker]

I had the same thought as the caveman and almost replied to you in similar manner, but decided to leave you alone; after seeing how busy you were here this weekend I'm wondering when you find time to bake.

I'm retired- technically. I've got alllll the time in the world.

Well except for this monster of a house that needs cleaning today after a house full over fall break. When the whole family is nothing but teachers, school breaks are crazy around here.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Disney probably sees the AoA family suites as the answer to that concern but as you point out they've priced their hotels to attract only the richer guests rather than those who cannot afford to pay as much.

Just so everyone has full information, AoA family suites are $450 a night during peak times without discounts and always at least $350. Way off-topic, but those suites are a sore spot for me because I was so excited when I first heard about them, imagining they'd be priced at most $50 more than a regular budget room.

 

[robinb]

Oh my, I was kind of hoping no one would ask. You'll probably be sorry you did...but here goes:

I'm not sorry at all and I completely understand your frustration.

Just for the record, I don't think "free dining" is "free", it's just another discount in my mind which is why I always throw quotes around it.

First, it's usually only a better deal if you're staying at a value, and then it is a reduced plan.

Not true, it's really a great discount for value and moderate resorts but not so much for deluxe resorts. The last "free dining" program was offered through the fall, regular and holiday seasons. The fall season rack rate for a value was $111 and the room-only discount was (I think) 20% which a savings of $25 including tax savings. I look at it this way, everyone needs to eat at WDW. The difference between rack rate "free dining" and the room-only discount is $25. Could YOU feed your family on $25 per day? Now, if you're looking at the holiday season, the rack rate is $199 (!) so the room only discount would be $45 less than "free dining", but again ... could you feed your family on $45 per day at WDW? I know I can't and we rarely eat at TS restaurants.

Moderate resorts are more expensive and the room-only discount is better. But so is the dining plan. A moderate in fall season is $204 with a room-only discount of 30%. That's a savings of $69. I don't know about you but I can't leave a single TS restaurant for two people for less than $70. Looking at the holiday season, rack rate is $285 (!!) and room-only savings is $96. For our family of 3 Disney Adults, that's probably where I would think hard about it. IF we wanted a TS every night it would be worth it since we average over $100 per TS meal.

But still, pay $100 you get a room and some food for up to 4 people. No matter, we wouldn't touch a free dining discount no matter how good the deal. It's a pia and it turns your vacation into nothing but planning meals and trying to figure out just how much you can manage to get. I see people all the time talking about what the most expensive thing on the menu is- not what they want to eat but what costs the most? Is crazy...

You're absolutely right! It is crazy. I hate all that planning. I hate the 120-day (plus 10!) ADR window. I hate that if I missed it (like I did for my December trip) I have to "stalk" the cancellation threads and MDX for an opening. I got both BOG and California Grill that way. I made FP+ reservations last night and I hated sitting there thinking, "OK. I *think* we might do EMH at the MK which is until 3:00 am. We'll get back to our resort at 4:00 am, asleep by 4:30, wake up groggy at 11:00 and we can be at AK by 1:00, but we have a BOG ADR at 7:05, so we can't spend too much time at AK so when do I have to schedule the Safari again?" It really hurts the brain sometimes to have to plan to that level. I have to admit that in pre-FP+ days we probably couldn't ride the safari if we got there at 1:00 but that would have been our choice since we stayed out late the night before. We would have made the best out of a relaxing day at AK without FPs.

FWIW, you are also absolutely right about the menus getting "dumbed down" due to the DDP. We have moved away from Disney TS restaurants once my DD was a "Disney Adult" and the cost was crazy for her. We eat offsite a few times a visit now (I LOVE the whole Maine lobster special at the Old Town Ale House on Wednesdays!) because the food is (a) better and (b) cheaper.

 

[cakebaker]

Just so everyone has full information, AoA family suites are $450 a night during peak times without discounts and always at least $350. Way off-topic, but those suites are a sore spot for me because I was so excited when I first heard about them, imagining they'd be priced at most $50 more than a regular budget room.

Perhaps rack rate, but discounts are available.

We stayed in a cars suite less than a month ago- Can't recall specific numbers, but wow- nothing close to $350. I believe our rate was $225 for 1 night, the other 4 were less, but don't recall off hand the exact rate.

 

[Suvadoo]

Just so everyone has full information, AoA family suites are $450 a night during peak times without discounts and always at least $350. Way off-topic, but those suites are a sore spot for me because I was so excited when I first heard about them, imagining they'd be priced at most $50 more than a regular budget room.

Talk about wishful thinking! I'm guilty of this all of the time. I get these advertisements about Disney offering 25-35% off of a room. I think it sounds great, and then I look up the prices and chastise myself for being delusional!

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

They could change from Free Dining to "Double FP+" for low seasons with purchase of an onsite package. That way the bottom line increases over a free dining offer.

We just went to Disney at the end of Sept/ beginning of October. I only used the kiosks to get extra FP on one day our entire trip. While my family would have been happy to have extra rides on Soarin, TT and TSMM, we did ride each 2 or 3 times during our trip. I think the longest line we ever waited in was 30 minutes and I think that happened twice during our trip. I would not trade Free Dining for extra FP+ reservations, it's just not worth it in low season.

 

[vacationer1954]

it's just not worth it in low season.

That is interesting. It must be difficult to come up with the right answer that will work all year round when the situation is different at different times of the year.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Perhaps rack rate, but discounts are available.

We stayed in a cars suite less than a month ago- Can't recall specific numbers, but wow- nothing close to $350. I believe our rate was $225 for 1 night, the other 4 were less, but don't recall off hand the exact rate.

It's $350-$450 when kids are not in school. Spring break is $450/night at AoA and well under $100/night for a non-Disney two double bed and pullout couch room. I totally understand it's supply and demand, but it's not surprising that Disney has to work harder to get larger families to stay onsite with the number of ridiculously cheap options in the area.

 

[vacationer1954]

Maybe they would not need to work so much harder to get larger families to stay onsite if the advantages of staying onsite were better.

 

[faneuil]

Maybe they would not need to work so much harder to get larger families to stay onsite if the advantages of staying onsite were better.

Something as simple as connecting rooms. But large families AT LEAST want the rooms next to each other, which can't even be guaranteed by Disney. Which is kind of sad.

I know lots of large families that come down and they all prefer renting a house with a pool to staying onsite. They like the cost, the privacy, the kitchens, garage, the quiet of a neighborhood.

I know many parents don't like to cook when on vacation. But the families I know have found it healthier and easier to cook for themselves, then chance a meltdown in a restaurant. My cousin's son is autistic, and the only way they were able to do Disney was knowing they had a "safe zone" in the quiet house they rented off property.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Maybe they would not need to work so much harder to get larger families to stay onsite if the advantages of staying onsite were better.

I know for a fact my brother/SIL and their family would have loved to stay at AoA. Their boys love Cars and Nemo! And they quite enjoy the onsite perks Disney already offers. However, the prices they got for AoA didn't fit their budget, so they didn't stay there.

Perks don't change what people's budgets are.

 

[vacationer1954]

Perks don't change what people's budgets are.

But it does change how valuable something is perceived so someone who can afford it but doesn't stay onsite because they feel they get a better value offsite may change their mind if there were more advantages in the parks for staying onsite.

 

[cakebaker]

Perks don't change what people's budgets are.

No, but there are a great many people who can afford to spend more, but at the moment don't see a reason to. If Disney continues down this path, they may decide it's worth it after all.

Disney isn't out to make their resorts more affordable, they're out to get the people who can afford them but choose off site anyway.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Maybe they would not need to work so much harder to get larger families to stay onsite if the advantages of staying onsite were better.

How is Disney "working so much harder" to get larger families to stay onsite? By providing larger accommodations in response to years of complaints/requests? Discounts on those units aren't any greater.

But it does change how valuable something is perceived so someone who can afford it but doesn't stay onsite because they feel they get a better value offsite may change their mind if there were more advantages in the parks for staying onsite.

Adding perks doesn't increase someone's available vacation budget.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Just so everyone has full information, AoA family suites are $450 a night during peak times without discounts and always at least $350. Way off-topic, but those suites are a sore spot for me because I was so excited when I first heard about them, imagining they'd be priced at most $50 more than a regular budget room.

2015 rates weren't on wdwinfo.com, but there were several weeks in 2014 where the rack rate was under $300. Respectfully, why would you expect a unit offering more than twice what a regular room does would only cost an extra $50? Even the AS Family Suites cost a little more than two ASMusic rooms.

 

[faneuil]

This thread has talked about almost everything.

Only thing left is the Dole Whip v. Citrus Swirl debate. (I am 100% in Orange Bird's camp on this one).

 

[kaytieeldr]

Dole Whip. You want I should start a poll?

 

[Jdismom]

Definitely citrus swirl!

And our Cars suite was only $272 last June.

 

[cakebaker]

Adding perks doesn't increase someone's available vacation budget.

Disney isn't after the vacationer who has a tight budget. They're after the ones who can afford to stay on site, yet don't.