TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[flicx]

And as always each of us needs to choose whether we see Disney as good and getting better or not good enough and getting worse and make our vacation plans accordingly.

I truly believe that is what is happening on sites and threads like this one and facebook etc. What doesn't bode well for Disney is threads like this are spreading like a plague. Something you didn't see just a few years ago. Time will tell. Good day

 

[vacationer1954]

Yes, I agree. Time will tell. It always has in the past.

 

[magicbob]

It's been a gradual shift that's been coming for a very long time-
The off site, here just for the thrill rides guest is not Disney's target guest anymore- hasn't been for a long time, if it ever was.

We go for the whole experience. We enjoy the rides, but we don't need to ride them a dozen times. In fact, we make a point of riding some only once. Peter Pan's flight is my #1 ride to ride ( yeah, it's true). We ride it once. It wouldn't be special if we rode it a dozen times.

It would've been nice to ride SDMT more than once because my grandson got his first roller coaster experience this trip and loved it and there's just not many rides for an adventurous 2 year old. Then again, there's not a lot of adventurous 2 year olds, so understandable. It's cute now, but I fear he may well not be a WDW lifetime fan. But he survived, and he can ride coasters at home.

I think it's very clear Disney is moving to a destination that is more than just a theme park experience- their resorts have so much to offer that just gets a glance by a lot of people that you could literally, never leave the resort and have a wonderful vacation.

This does leave the off site guest and/or those who come just for the rides out in the cold. But I don't think Disney was ever your best choice. It's so much more than just rides and if the "more" isn't your cup of tea, neither is Disney.

Absolutely! But where can you do both? They aren't eliminating the parks- they're trying to make them not the ONLY thing.

We, too, go for "both." They are obviously not eliminating the parks, but they are certainly eliminating many of the experiences we have come to love in the past. It's little consolation to say we can enjoy the great resorts when, in the past, we have done that AND had a great experience at the parks. A lesser experience at the park is a lesser experience no matter how you slice it.

Ah yes, when I first got bit by the mouse, I believed it all. As time goes by, I understand it's really not true- they really are a business that has to focus on profits and how to get as much as possible.

I think there are 3 categories of Disney people 1) those that believed the magic from their first trip and still do 2) that that believed the magic but while they still enjoy the fantasy, know it never was true (sort of like Santa Clause, and 3) those that believed it, think it's changed and went away.

I'm firmly #2, desperately wish I was #1.

I also agree it gets tiresome defending the on site experience and being told virtually how ignorant on site people are for their decisions. Yes there are great houses and condos off site that are much cheaper than deluxe on site. I get that. But I don't want an off site house. I have an off site house and I live in it. I want fantasy for a week or 2.

Wait, so are you telling those of us who experienced that world-class customer service first-hand, that we didn't really experience it? Sounds an awful lot like telling someone they "didn't really enjoy their vacation because of FP+." Do you really think Disney's customer service always sucked (can I say that?) as bad as it does now? Disney has always been about making a profit, but it was the world-class service (that you seem to deny existed) which made many of us eager to dump wheelbarrows full of our hard-earned dollars into their coffers. These days, I'm not feeling that urge so much. No, I haven't changed. Customer service has.

 

[cakebaker]

We, too, go for "both." They are obviously not eliminating the parks, but they are certainly eliminating many of the experiences we have come to love in the past. It's little consolation to say we can enjoy the great resorts when, in the past, we have done that AND had a great experience at the parks. A lesser experience at the park is a lesser experience no matter how you slice it. Wait, so are you telling those of us who experienced that world-class customer service first-hand, that we didn't really experience it? Sounds an awful lot like telling someone they "didn't really enjoy their vacation because of FP+." Do you really think Disney's customer service always sucked (can I say that?) as bad as it does now? Disney has always been about making a profit, but it was the world-class service (that you seem to deny existed) which made many of us eager to dump wheelbarrows full of our hard-earned dollars into their coffers. These days, I'm not feeling that urge so much. No, I haven't changed. Customer service has.

Those comments had nothing to do with quality of service. It has to do with this notion that somehow Disney used to only concern themselves with guest satisfaction- profits were secondary.

The real question to me is, if you dislike it so much, why do you continue to go when there are so many places, so many choices.


Btw- I don't think their customer service "sucks" at all- in fact our last trip was done of the best we ever had.
Changes to their parks, changes to their systems isn't a customer service issue. You don't like the changes. Not every vacation destination fits everyone forever. Disney may not fit us one day, it won't mean they suck, it will be they aren't for us.

I could say Universal sucks- I hate it. I could list all the things I found wrong, but I'll save it. At any rate, I allow there are others that love it. I don't understand how or why, but I don't have to. Universal and the way they do things, fits them. It doesn't fit me. They probably don't suck, I just don't like it. So, I won't go to Universal any more. It's simple. Don't like it, don't go. But I'm not going to change the way they choose to run their parks.

The real question to me is, if you dislike it so much, why do you continue to go when there are so many places to choose from?

 

[Angel Ariel]

I actually believe TSMM has enough capacity. What they need are alternatives in the park. I'm not really excited about a 3rd track. I'd rather have a greater variety of things to do in that park for guests of all ages. Just like DCA.

i agree with this too...DHS needs more all-ages family rides (w/o height requirements). That is the only thing, IMO, that's going to significantly affect TSMM wait times.

 

[momof2n2]

Those comments had nothing to do with quality of service. It has to do with this notion that somehow Disney used to only concern themselves with guest satisfaction- profits were secondary. The real question to me is, if you dislike it so much, why do you continue to go when there are so many places, so many choices. Btw- I don't think their customer service "sucks" at all- in fact our last trip was done of the best we ever had. Changes to their parks, changes to their systems isn't a customer service issue. You don't like the changes. Not every vacation destination fits everyone forever. Disney may not fit us one day, it won't mean they suck, it will be they aren't for us. I could say Universal sucks- I hate it. I could list all the things I found wrong, but I'll save it. At any rate, I allow there are others that love it. I don't understand how or why, but I don't have to. Universal and the way they do things, fits them. It doesn't fit me. They probably don't suck, I just don't like it. So, I won't go to Universal any more. It's simple. Don't like it, don't go. But I'm not going to change the way they choose to run their parks. The real question to me is, if you dislike it so much, why do you continue to go when there are so many places to choose from?

I can't answer for MagicBob, but I haven't been back (as we'd planned). It was SO GOOD for a decade. Our family vacation go to.
And then it got weird.
And we did pick other destinations this year.
But I can't walk away from my hope that Disney will change some things and stop thinking with their tech and start doing what they used to do great: Make new magic.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I love a few of the Disney resorts but personally can't think of anything more dull than spending a lot of time hanging out at one. A few hours during a vacation is fine but if you sit by a pool you might as well do that anywhere. Plus the resorts really don't have that much else to do.

I agree with this too. If we're going on vacation to just hang out at a pool or equally relax somewhere, we get a house on the beach at the Outer Banks that has a pool/hot tub as well as private beach access.

When we go to Disney, it's about the parks. It's nice to be at the resorts, but we don't go for the primary reason of hanging out at the resorts.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Okay but I was asking to please not take away from the rest of us the right to find at least some of the resorts to be a draw.

her commenting on how she sees the resorts isn't taking anything away from anyone else. It's her opinion...to each their own.

 

[magicbob]

Those comments had nothing to do with quality of service. It has to do with this notion that somehow Disney used to only concern themselves with guest satisfaction- profits were secondary.

My point is that even though profits have always been job #1, the WAY in which Disney used to ensure those profits was to provide superior customer service. It wasn't a matter of putting the customer service ABOVE making a profit, it was a matter of making a profit BECAUSE of your customer service. They seem to be resting on their laurels and have realized that people will fill the parks anyway, so why work so hard at ensuring the same level of service?

I could say Universal sucks- I hate it. I could list all the things I found wrong, but I'll save it. At any rate, I allow there are others that love it. I don't understand how or why, but I don't have to. Universal and the way they do things, fits them. It doesn't fit me. They probably don't suck, I just don't like it. So, I won't go to Universal any more. It's simple. Don't like it, don't go. But I'm not going to change the way they choose to run their parks.

Not sure why you're bringing up Universal.

The real question to me is, if you dislike it so much, why do you continue to go when there are so many places, so many choices.

Well, I've gotten my Disney fix at Disneyland Paris in the past few years. I haven't been back to WDW since 2010 (and I'm rather relieved that all of this turmoil is occurring now when I have no plans for a WDW trip).

My most recent vacations have been to France, Ireland, Scotland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Romania, Austria, Crete, and Israel. Oh, yeah... I went to Oktoberfest in Munich last weekend and I'm typing this from my hotel in Amsterdam.

So, yeah... lots of other wonderful places to vacation.

Our next big vacation plans in the U.S. are Hawaii (reconsidering Aulani... might do the cruise that visits multiple islands insteads), Mount Rushmore, and Yellowstone Park. No WDW plans on the horizon until the turmoil settles down and we can assess whether it's still a viable destination for us. I have not said (nor will I say) that I won't be back. But I currently have no plans to go back. Hopefully, that will change, but if WDW keeps heading in the same direction, I fear it will not.

Do I "dislike Disney so much?" No. But I dislike the declines in recent years while prices continue to skyrocket. Will I be back? Perhaps. But it's certainly not a given. If I don't go back, it won't be because I "hate" WDW. It will be that I'm saddened by the negative changes there.

 

[Angel Ariel]

That's what late nights and rope drop are for!

I agree..but it's very dependent on the child/children you have . We managed to make that one RD on the trip with my nephew, but we had to wake DD up over an hour earlier than she'd wake on her own (she normally doesn't wake til 8am or later). At 15 months old, that wasn't a big deal. She was consistently napping every day and would nap well in the stroller.

Now, at 27 months old, she's fighting taking a nap at all some days, and rarely falls asleep when we're out and about. So while messing with her morning routine/sleep wasn't an issue at 15 months, it would be now. She also doesn't stay out late, so late nights aren't an option at the moment.

These things will change as she grows, absolutely, but it's the reality we deal with for now.

FP never allowed for back to back riding of rides. It did allow you the possibility of riding an extremely popular ride more than once in a day, but for the most popular rides, a few times at best and you had to practically dedicate your day to securing only fp's for that ride.

I think what bothers me about posts like this is the absolutes with which they are said. I appreciate that was your experience with FP, but it wasn't mine. I'm not saying it allowed us to do 6 rides back to back (though FP was a part of those 6 rides my nephew did have) - and certainly not during peak afternoon times.

But we were able to pick up a FP, ride SB (w/30 min or less wait), and then use the FP for 2 rides in a row on more than a few occasions, and it absolutely did not require dedicating ourselves to FPing that ride only for the day. I recall doing that for BTMRR, Space, TOT and Star Tours. I specifically remember getting to ride TOT 3x in less than an hour by using FP and SB on our Dec 2007 trip, and riding Star Tours maybe 3 or 4 times in a row using a combo of SB and FP in March 2013.

Like I said, I'm not saying we did this during peak afternoon times, but it wasn't right at RD or late nights either.

I'm also not saying FP+ *wont* work for us in a similar manner at the park. Maybe it will..I'm waiting to see on that. I just don't like the level of planning required before arriving on property.

 

[cakebaker]

My point is that even though profits have always been job #1, the WAY in which Disney used to ensure those profits was to provide superior customer service. It wasn't a matter of putting the customer service ABOVE making a profit, it was a matter of making a profit BECAUSE of your customer service. They seem to be resting on their laurels and have realized that people will fill the parks anyway, so why work so hard at ensuring the same level of service?

We just disagree then. I think, while different in many ways, the customer service is still top notch. I miss some of the little touches, but it's not enough to make me think they've significantly gone downhill. What I find most disturbing about our WDW experiences as of late is the decline in the guests behavior and attitudes. WDW itself is doing fine. But the guests were bad enough both trips, that we are considering alternative vacations. They're still Disney, because I still think they're very good at what they do.

Not sure why you're bringing up Universal.

I only bring up Universal to say that just because I don't like what a particular company does, doesn't mean they suck in general. It's just their methods and choices are ones I would not make and don't want to experience again.

Well, I've gotten my Disney fix at Disneyland Paris in the past few years. I haven't been back to WDW since 2010 (and I'm rather relieved that all of this turmoil is occurring now when I have no plans for a WDW trip).

My most recent vacations have been to France, Ireland, Scotland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Romania, Austria, Crete, and Israel. Oh, yeah... I went to Oktoberfest in Munich last weekend and I'm typing this from my hotel in Amsterdam.

So, yeah... lots of other wonderful places to vacation.

Our next big vacation plans in the U.S. are Hawaii (reconsidering Aulani... might do the cruise that visits multiple islands insteads), Mount Rushmore, and Yellowstone Park. No WDW plans on the horizon until the turmoil settles down and we can assess whether it's still a viable destination for us. I have not said (nor will I say) that I won't be back. But I currently have no plans to go back. Hopefully, that will change, but if WDW keeps heading in the same direction, I fear it will not.

You obviously have more vacation time than we do!

Do I "dislike Disney so much?" No. But I dislike the declines in recent years while prices continue to skyrocket. Will I be back? Perhaps. But it's certainly not a given. If I don't go back, it won't be because I "hate" WDW. It will be that I'm saddened by the negative changes there

.

I truly am interested in why people who have so many complaints about Disney and speak of them in such negative terms would continue to return. And if they aren't returning, why they populate a board that is nothing but Disney vacations. I'm not trying to be insulting or have a like or leave it attitude, just truly interested. I appreciate your explanation.

 

[vacationer1954]

her commenting on how she sees the resorts isn't taking anything away from anyone else.

Forgive my confusion then, because I thought that's what she was doing after I responded to her comment about the hotels not being a draw with my own family's experience staying at the hotels because they were a draw for us, and not even visiting the parks during some trips, after which she she restated her original comment. It just seemed as if to try to drown out my comment. My mistake.

 

[minnie mum]

I truly am interested in why people who have so many complaints about Disney and speak of them in such negative terms would continue to return. And if they aren't returning, why they populate a board that is nothing but Disney vacations. I'm not trying to be insulting or have a like or leave it attitude, just truly interested. I appreciate your explanation.

I'm not the poster that you have directed your comments to. But since you seem to be the primary arbiter on this thread, perhaps you can clarify something for me.

Is it not possible for a person to have had a history of wonderful (or at least enjoyable) WDW vacations, and at the same time disagree or disapprove of certain current changes? Is it not possible to want a particular vacation destination without being in love with every single aspect of that destination? Is it your position that it is all or nothing? Love it all or never darken my door again? Do you think that everyone thinks like that?

Is this forum limited to only those people who have active plans for an imminent visit to WDW? What kind of time frame are we talking about here? Are we allowed to comment only if we know for sure we will arrive in the next year? 2 years? What if we only think we'll be going but arent sure? Are we still allowed to voice an opinion? Or is this forum actually for anyone who has an interest in Disney and their parks? Please help me out here. I fear that I may have been under a misapprehension here for years.

 

[MillauFr]

No reason to put with this if you don't want to. Just go to Disneyland. Same great rides, many of them much better than at Disneyworld and no fastpass plus.

 

[surferdave]

I truly am interested in why people who have so many complaints about Disney and speak of them in such negative terms would continue to return. And if they aren't returning, why they populate a board that is nothing but Disney vacations. I'm not trying to be insulting or have a like or leave it attitude, just truly interested. I appreciate your explanation.

I expect to outlive the madness.

 

[cakebaker]

I'm not the poster that you have directed your comments to. But since you seem to be the primary arbiter on this thread, perhaps you can clarify something for me.

Is it not possible for a person to have had a history of wonderful (or at least enjoyable) WDW vacations, and at the same time disagree or disapprove of certain current changes? Is it not possible to want a particular vacation destination without being in love with every single aspect of that destination? Is it your position that it is all or nothing? Love it all or never darken my door again? Do you think that everyone thinks like that?

Is this forum limited to only those people who have active plans for an imminent visit to WDW? What kind of time frame are we talking about here? Are we allowed to comment only if we know for sure we will arrive in the next year? 2 years? What if we only think we'll be going but arent sure? Are we still allowed to voice an opinion? Or is this forum actually for anyone who has an interest in Disney and their parks? Please help me out here. I fear that I may have been under a misapprehension here for years.

I'm not exactly sure, with your post count especially, if you're serious, but I'm going to assume you are.

I am most definitely not the arbiter of this discussion or any other. Anyone here is welcome to comment, not by my choice, but by the owners of this board...as long as their comments are civil. There's no limitations on when you last visited or when you're going to visit or if you ever are going to visit. I'm honestly puzzled as to why you'd think that.

Of course it's possible to continue to visit WDW yet still have issues with it.
I have some issues with WDW myself, just none big enough to stop me from going. I love parts of it, not so much others.

My question was directed at those who, at least to me, seem to have serious issues to the point that I wondered why they kept going. Several have answered, explained their opinions and I appreciate it. It helps me understand their viewpoint.

Hope that helps explain my position at least.

 

[bumbershoot]

No it hasn't always been the same. How it is now is rougly how its been since the mid to late 1990s.

Then how do I see and feel a difference since our first trip, which was only in 2010?

(while we have experienced no change in enjoyment, customer service, or fun over at Universal, where we have experienced consistently BETTER customer service (and fun and enjoyment), in almost the same period of time)

I'm not exactly sure, with your post count especially, if you're serious, but I'm going to assume you are.

I am most definitely not the arbiter of this discussion or any other. Anyone here is welcome to comment, not by my choice, but by the owners of this board...as long as their comments are civil. There's no limitations on when you last visited or when you're going to visit or if you ever are going to visit. I'm honestly puzzled as to why you'd think that.

Of course it's possible to continue to visit WDW yet still have issues with it.
I have some issues with WDW myself, just none big enough to stop me from going. I love parts of it, not so much others.

My question was directed at those who, at least to me, seem to have serious issues to the point that I wondered why they kept going. Several have answered, explained their opinions and I appreciate it. It helps me understand their viewpoint.

Hope that helps explain my position at least.

She's responding directly to this.

truly am interested in why people who have so many complaints about Disney and speak of them in such negative terms would continue to return. And if they aren't returning, why they populate a board that is nothing but Disney vacations. I'm not trying to be insulting or have a like or leave it attitude, just truly interested. I appreciate your explanation.

You seem, from that post, to have a problem with people disliking the way Disney is doing things, and to have a problem with people coming to this site when they don't have something booked. She's asking you to clarify your position. Or explain why you have these questions.

I was on a wedding board LONG after I got married. In 2.5 looooong years I was engaged I got used to being there. Got used to the discussions, to helping others figure things out, the people. I left once I grew tired of it or found somewhere else to "go". Likely the same with some here.

 

[momof2n2]

I expect to outlive the madness.

From your keyboard to the Board's big, black ears. I just hope I'm still young enough for EE.

Got used to the discussions, to helping others figure things out, the people. I left once I grew tired of it or found somewhere else to "go". Likely the same with some here.

This, too. I can only relate to so much on my beloved DCL DISpage (with no next cruise booked). I like to revisit this page every few months to see if it's improved any.

 

[cakebaker]

You seem, from that post, to have a problem with people disliking the way Disney is doing things, and to have a problem with people coming to this site when they don't have something booked. She's asking you to clarify your position. Or explain why you have these questions.

Asking why someone does something is not saying you have a problem with it. I worded it as nicely as possible trying not to offend. I don't see anything wrong with politely asking a question.

 

[Planogirl]

I truly am interested in why people who have so many complaints about Disney and speak of them in such negative terms would continue to return. And if they aren't returning, why they populate a board that is nothing but Disney vacations. I'm not trying to be insulting or have a like or leave it attitude, just truly interested. I appreciate your explanation.

I come back because I've been here for a long time and also because I still find some elements of Disney interesting. I hope to visit the California version in the next few years so there is that. Also, like another poster, I hope that Disney will come to its senses eventually. It could happen.

Besides, I don't think that there is any way to question why people do something without it sounding insulting. I think that what you said about Universal is pretty insulting (and irrelevant) but I don't see any point in questioning your right to post such things. Keep in mind that this website is primarily about WDW but not only there.