TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[wisblue]

I think Disney already has enough data to make accurate predictions on crowd flow and control. I think this is all psychological testing to test how we will react to the changes and to test the waters.

If the purpose of the test was just to see how people would react, it would have made more sense to announce it in advance.

If they were to eliminate a standby line completely on a permanent basis, guests who do their research would know that in advance and set their expectations and plans accordingly. They would have no reason to be upset when they arrive at the park and find that they can't get in a standby line.

Another thing I noticed in some of the posts in this thread is how many people who were actually there reported the ride being down a lot, including during EMH on Sunday, before the test even started.. Some even suggested that it was done on purpose to control the line.

I have no idea if there was more downtime than usual for TSMM this week. But if there was, it makes me wonder if they were doing some type of maintenance (like work on the software that operates the game portion of the ride) that they knew would, or at least might, cause some disruptions. But, rather than shutting the ride down completely, they kept it open for people with FPs and tried to operate it at less than full capacity, releasing more FPs when the operation of the ride would allow it.

 

[grimley1968]

We had dinner with four other families last night (here for a family wedding) and compared notes on our experiences this past week.
...
Sorry for the novel. Just wanting to share our experience because you all helped me SO MUCH with this trip. Off to watch a wedding for a few days.

I enjoyed your "novel". That, and the other posts before it, were good first-hand accounts of actual guest experiences. To try to abbreviate what you said too much would have taken away many factual details that showed that Disney was very much in the wrong in this case. There's been a lot of speculation as to why Disney did this, assertion of Disney's rights as a company to do whatever they please to their guests, support of the test that I found laughable, and unfortunately some condescension in your direction. Your posts showed what was really happening, and no amount of rationalizing this sucker-punch-to-guests-who-played-by-the-rules test can minimize that.

But even after all that, I enjoyed reading that the rest of your vacation was mostly a success.

Have fun at the wedding!

 

[grimley1968]

It may have been a mistake, but I ended up telling my wife last night about this "test" and my concerns about what Disney might pull when we're there this same week next year. If anything, she was even more appalled than I was about it. She agreed that I should monitor these boards for more of this, and if they pull more of it without notice to their guests, to cancel our booked vacation there. It may or may not be indicative of a larger trend, but that's our experience looking at this from 750 miles away. For all the money I'm paying and time spent planning, I'd prefer to be treated as a loyal guest rather than a guinea pig.

 

[flicx]

People would do well to remember this with all things at Disney, including Disney themselves. It's a business, they're out to make the biggest profit they can and that's not a bad thing.

Profit is important, but just because they are making money doesn't mean you can throw the customer under the bus.. Customer satisfaction and service mean nothing if Disney makes a profit? They need to come to a middle ground, I feel and many others feel what used to be a priority(customer service) has taken a back seat(way in the back) to profit margins. If Disney doesn't soon improve and get back to the way they used to handle customers, the profit margins may soon be headed the other direction.

 

[vacationer1954]

Profit is important, but just because they are making money doesn't mean you can throw the customer under the bus.

Nothing being discussed involves throwing customers under a bus. These are just relatively contained changes that some customers actually prefer.

 

[Laketravis]

For all the money I'm paying and time spent planning, I'd prefer to be treated as a loyal guest rather than a guinea pig.

 

[cakebaker]

Profit is important, but just because they are making money doesn't mean you can throw the customer under the bus.. Customer satisfaction and service mean nothing if Disney makes a profit? They need to come to a middle ground, I feel and many others feel what used to be a priority(customer service) has taken a back seat(way in the back) to profit margins. If Disney doesn't soon improve and get back to the way they used to handle customers, the profit margins may soon be headed the other direction.

The good old days when Disney valued customers over profit never existed. It's a pixie dust myth.

Profits and customer satisfaction go hand in hand. Disney doesn't do, nor has it ever done, what it does to make the customer happy. They do it to make a profit and have a successful company. Making the customer happy gives them their profit so of course customer satisfaction is important. But it's an important part of making a profit- not their end goal.

Yes, you read these boards or facebook and you'd have to wonder what ARE they thinking- but then you look at the crowds- the competition just to get a table so you can give them more of your money- and you have to say- Whatever they're doing- they're doing enough right that people are inundating the parks all year long.

Is it as good as it was 20 years ago? I don't think so, but it's apparently good enough.

Time will tell if they can keep up the pace, but nothing yet says it's hurting them and fp+ has been in place for enough time it should've shown at least some backlash. It hasn't.

 

[grimley1968]

Nothing being discussed involves throwing customers under a bus. These are just relatively contained changes that some customers actually prefer.

I personally can't imagine any customers would actually prefer being told, with no warning, that they cannot wait in a standby line to ride a functioning ride.

Whether one prefers planning their FP's out 60 days in advance or whether one prefers to wait in standby is not terribly relevant. The relevant point is that one option was taken away from unsuspecting guests without warning.

Customers who play by the rules Disney itself set up: meet the Disney bus.

 

[vacationer1954]

I personally can't imagine any customers would actually prefer being told, with no warning, that they cannot wait in a standby line to ride a functioning ride.

That's not what this is all about. This is about the result of the testing - what changes Disney may make to the parks in response to the testing. The testing is such a small thing, a few days. I know the people affected are angry but testing like this is a necessary part of doing business.

Customers who play by the rules Disney itself set up: meet the Disney bus.

I don't think extreme characterizations help anyone understand anything.

 

[over50visits]

Very true. In the absence of tangible value, discounts are necessary to create the illusion.

Witness the Disney Dining Plan, basically a cash cow for Disney, yet so many people are happy they have it. The best of both worlds!

 

[RSWA2]

The FP+ line did have more people, but really it only took a few minutes more than on a "normal" day.

Could you clarify? When you say it only took a few minutes more, do you mean more than standby or FP+?

Sure.

On the other days I was there when it wasn't FP+ only testing, the FP+ line starting right at the FP+ entrance where you checked-in at the first set of Mickeys and immediately walked into inside the Toy Story building. On Monday (10/6) during the FP+ only testing, the FP+ line started to the left (when facing TSMM) of the building, it used the start of standby line, before it reached the first set of FP+ check-in Mickeys. There was about 20 people walking that line, so it took about 2 minutes to walk that short line before we checked-in with the FP+. So FP+ only testing day took about 2 minutes more than a regular FP+ day. It's walking about an extra 40-50 feet or so...but really I'm just pointing out the tiny details.

 

[grimley1968]

That's not what this is all about. This is about the result of the testing - what changes Disney may make to the parks in response to the testing. The testing is such a small thing, a few days. I know the people affected are angry but testing like this is a necessary part of doing business.

I don't think extreme characterizations help anyone understand anything.

I disagree that that is what "this is all about". To me, it's about the test itself, being given with no warning, as shown on page 1 of this thread. The results of the test are meaningless to me. The ends do not justify the means in this case, IMO.

For those who were told they cannot ride something in standby, with no warning, this is not a "small thing" to them. It may be a "small thing" to Disney for now, but enough of this kind of treatment of guests by a company that prides itself on customer service will bite it in the rear in the long run. It's terribly damaging to its reputation, and no company on earth has as much riding on its reputation as Disney.

I'm not against testing by any means, but to change the rules on guests with no advance warning is not the way to do it, while hoping to keep your company's reputation intact. Sure, they can do it all they want, but with competition just down the road in several locations, I think it's a supremely stupid thing to do. Test a standby-less line all they like, but it would be wise for them to give warning at least equivalent to FP booking windows.

 

[charmed59]

Profit is important, but just because they are making money doesn't mean you can throw the customer under the bus.. Customer satisfaction and service mean nothing if Disney makes a profit? They need to come to a middle ground, I feel and many others feel what used to be a priority(customer service) has taken a back seat(way in the back) to profit margins. If Disney doesn't soon improve and get back to the way they used to handle customers, the profit margins may soon be headed the other direction.

I think the disconnect Disney is dealing with is that some, perhaps most, of their customers felt the long standby lines were a perfect example of customer service taking a back seat. Those customers feel FP is a step toward Disney without long lines, and the only thing that would make it better is more fast passes. The only way to add fast passes is to cut down standby. I don't think it was a totally idiotic move to take a slow week and try and eliminate standby all together to see if they could keep the ride at capacity with FP only.

If all their customers were on the same page, they wouldn't have any difficulty deciding what would make them happy. Unfortunately, we all disagree.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I'm curious about what you envision when you refer to a "100% ride reservation system".

Do you mean that a couple of the most popular attractions in the parks that don't have that many right now (DHS and Epcot in particular) would be FP only, or that you think EVERY ride in every park will be FP only?

There is obviously a huge gap between those two concepts, and (although I like to avoid saying "never") it's hard to picture how reservation only at a park like MK would even work unless everyone got quite a few FPs. Despite the hyperbole that some people like to use on these boards. there are very few people who are going to be willing to come to WDW knowing in advance that they can do 3 and only 3 rides in a day.

Although I hope the FP only approach doesn't come to ANY attraction, it would really become a game changer for me if there were 2 or more of them in any park, especially if they would be tiered so that you could only get a FP for one of them. As it is now, tiering doesn't bother me because we have never had a problem arriving at opening and doing the major attractions at DHS (TSMM, RNRC, and TOT), Epcot (TT, Soarin, and MS), and DAK (KS, EE, and Dinosaur) in about an hour or a little more without a FP. Because we rarely do anything more than once in a day, after that we don't care if no FPs are available or how long the standby line is. But, if you would tell me before I enter that I can only do one of those attractions, it would really reduce my enthusiasm.

No standby line only makes sense at all for an attraction that has such a consistently high demand that the ride would operate all day without wasted capacity. Even the most popular attractions like TSMM would have trouble doing that in the first 30-60 minutes after opening. I suspect that if you give a large group of people FPs with return times between 9 AM and 10 AM, a lot more of them are going to arrive closer to 10 than 9.

For a lesser attraction like POC I doubt if there would ever be enough FP flow to keep the right operating at close to capacity unless everyone gets a lot more than 3 FPs.

I do think they could make them all FP-only but you're right, they would have to give more rolling FPs. But that is something they could do. So maybe prebook 3 and then have two rolling all day or something like that. So you could have one held and be using one as you go. So in your example of PoC, you would pop on and grab a FP maybe even right before you go in. I think it would have to all be on the app.

Or maybe like you said, it would be just the popular rides.

In any case, I think all of the indicators show that things are moving towards making some rides FP only, probably more than we think right now.

Did anyone ever think Captain EO would have FP?

 

[canoe86]

Profit is important, but just because they are making money doesn't mean you can throw the customer under the bus.. Customer satisfaction and service mean nothing if Disney makes a profit? They need to come to a middle ground, I feel and many others feel what used to be a priority(customer service) has taken a back seat(way in the back) to profit margins. If Disney doesn't soon improve and get back to the way they used to handle customers, the profit margins may soon be headed the other direction.

Food quality is another example of lowering standards.

 

[Laketravis]

Time will tell if they can keep up the pace, but nothing yet says it's hurting them and fp+ has been in place for enough time it should've shown at least some backlash. It hasn't.

What we need is a good ol' fashion global recession. That would empty out the parks and have WDW begging for customers in the form of discounts and perks.

 

[cakebaker]

Food quality is another example of lowering standards.

You can blame "free" dining for that one. I despise free dining for many reasons- the reduction in offereings and quality is one of them.

 

[faneuil]

I think the disconnect Disney is dealing with is that some, perhaps most, of their customers felt the long standby lines were a perfect example of customer service taking a back seat. Those customers feel FP is a step toward Disney without long lines, and the only thing that would make it better is more fast passes. The only way to add fast passes is to cut down standby. I don't think it was a totally idiotic move to take a slow week and try and eliminate standby all together to see if they could keep the ride at capacity with FP only.

If all their customers were on the same page, they wouldn't have any difficulty deciding what would make them happy. Unfortunately, we all disagree.

But how long is too long?
Few weeks ago, RnRC was down and TofT was running at about 1/2 capacity. (I could tell by how often I heard screaming - I know the thing too well) TofT had a terrible SB wait, 150 minutes posted.

From what I could see and hear, they were doing about a 15 to 1 ratio. For every 15 FP+'ers, 1 SB got through. There were supervisors - but they were spending the majority of their time apologizing to ppl in the FP+ line.

The woman behind me began complaining the second the FP+ line stopped. For her (and me) it was just before you reached the physical ride building - by the statues and dried up fountain. We waited about 10 minutes to get into the library. She was ready to leave the line.

I realize this is one woman, and she only knows what her day was like before TofT, but if we're to the point that 10 minutes (okay, 20 to get on the physical ride) is too much when an attraction is running at 1/2 capacity - we, as a society, have bigger issues.

 

[cakebaker]

Witness the Disney Dining Plan, basically a cash cow for Disney, yet so many people are happy they have it. The best of both worlds!

Especially the free dining- unless you're staying at the cheapest of values, it's almost always a better deal to take the discounts offered. But people just love "free", even when it isn't.

 

[Cyrano]

Folks dining discussion should be kept for the restaurant board.
Thank you for your assistance, otherwise with the thread derailed it will be closed.