TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[Friendlyadvice2]

Did any posters that were there yesterday complain to Guest Services?

Our party of six certainly did.

By the way, there were guest service CMs at the ride location yesterday. Complaints did not matter; it's whatever data they were after and how they spin it that matters.

 

[mom2rtk]

I made my last "additional" FP+ Around 3:00 for the 4:45 - 5:45 slot. I checked around 4 on my app and for at least a half hour there was the option for me to change times to the 5:00-6:00 slot. Obviously my thinking was get on at 4:45, come out and grab another one. I tried but all were gone just prior to 5 and the kiosks were being covered.

The reason for the conflicting reports is because people did not keep checking back......I too was told there were no experiences as early as 11:55, but backed out of the selection screen and went back in a couple times and got my selections. As I previously stated, new FP we're being added throughout the day, at least on the hour, if not more. Also, it appeared they added many more for the last hour, in my mind, so that the line would be busier until park close and not risk people leaving the park early and the ride sitting empty since you could only ride with a FP......obviously nobody could just walk up and get on it even if all the people who had FP scheduled decided to leave early, which would have resulted in an empty ride.

Regarding the capacity and test signage.....I admittedly did not pay any attention to the "man behind the curtain", I just tried to use their system to hit the curveball they were throwing at me.

I'm glad you had a great day. Honestly I am. Way to ride the wave!

But for the average visitor, I find this to just be AWFUL. People plan for a year or more to be in that park. And on that day, they want to ride THAT ride. There should not be all this game playing going on behind the scenes. It's just wrong on SO many levels.

It's no wonder you were able to get so many FPs. One by one people were told the ride was at capacity for the day and people moved on to do other things, perhaps to even leave and go to other parks. It's not like there are that many alternatives at DHS for people with young kids.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Here's the problem.

Your average Disney guest doesn't know there's a game to play, let alone how to play it well. I am glad it worked for you. Knowing the system is 90% of the battle.

QUOTE]

So glad they leveled the playing field and stopped the expert superusers with this amazing FP+ system.

I haven't been on disboards for awhile since the only theme park trip in the works is a return to Universal to satisfy my Potterphiles, but I saw an article about the TSMM test.

What happened to some of the main arguments from the pro-FP+ people? Namely, "It's going to level the playing field and make things so much more fair for the newbies?" I'm pretty sure that argument has been abandoned at this point. Now, it's not enough to even have past Disney experience, read a guidebook, or ask a friend because your info will be out of date. And don't forget, "You don't ever have to use FP+ to ride. Just get in the standby line, at rope drop if possible or just be patient and wait like the old days."

It seems like the main positives we're left with is that you can plan 60/30 days ahead and you can sleep in if you plan 60/30 days ahead. I research vacations to the point that other people think I'm a bit crazy, and I don't want to need a spreadsheet for vacation. I once planned a vacation basically down to the hour and decided never again because it felt like executing a plan instead of having fun.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

I'm glad you had a great day. Honestly I am. Way to ride the wave!

But for the average visitor, I find this to just be AWFUL. People plan for a year or more to be in that park. And on that day, they want to ride THAT ride. There should not be all this game playing going on behind the scenes. It's just wrong on SO many levels.

It's no wonder you were able to get so many FPs. One by one people were told the ride was at capacity for the day and people moved on to do other things, perhaps to even leave and go to other parks. It's not like there are that many alternatives at DHS for people with young kids.

Who said it was a great day? It was a complete pain in the butt to accomplish what I payed to do. I agree, it is AWFUL. I want SB back.

 

[wisblue]

My two cents worth.

First, I am strongly opposed to totally eliminating the standby line for any ride.

But, I am far from convinced that this "test" is a sign that complete elimination of any standby lines is coming on a regular basis. I think that what they may be doing is trying to see if they can manage the distribution of FPs in a way that would maintain a steady flow of guests onto an attraction without creating an undesirably long wait for FP holders or wasted capacity. This could be part of the consideration of whether a "FP Only" track for TSMM would be feasible.

I have thought from the beginning that one possible feature of MM+/FP+ could eventually be a "virtual queue" system that would eliminate the standby lines of an hour or longer that frequently develop quickly at a couple of the most popular attractions, especially on very busy days. My idea is that the standby line could be allowed to reach a certain length to ensure that there will always be enough guests in line to keep the ride operating at maximum capacity. But, once the line reaches a certain length (such as 45-60 minutes) anyone wishing to go standby would be assigned a time at which they could return to the standby line. So, instead of waiting in that line for 90-120 minutes or more, the guest could do other things and then wait 45-60 minutes in the line later. By using MDE and the magic bands, it should be possible to ensure that each guest can only have a space in one virtual queue at a time.

I think that some standby line is necessary to avoid wasted capacity on a ride, especially at the very beginning and very end of the day. Even if enough FPs are issued to cover capacity for the whole day, the ebb and flow of people returning (and no shows) will create peaks and gaps in the number of guests in the boarding area. Even the current test at TSMM recognizes that, as the reports have been that the standby line is open for a short time after the park opens and at least some times after that.

In the meantime, I'm willing to see where this goes before getting too worked up about it.

 

[mom2rtk]

Who said it was a great day? It was a complete pain in the butt to accomplish what I payed to do. I agree, it is AWFUL. I want SB back.

LOL, my mind is just used to equating superusing FP with "great day".

And I do find it notable that someone in the top 1% of TSMM riders yesterday still wants standby back.

 

[FLchick415]

My two cents worth.

First, I am strongly opposed to totally eliminating the standby line for any ride.

But, I am far from convinced that this "test" is a sign that complete elimination of any standby lines is coming on a regular basis. I think that what they may be doing is trying to see if they can manage the distribution of FPs in a way that would maintain a steady flow of guests onto an attraction without creating an undesirably long wait for FP holders or wasted capacity. This could be part of the consideration of whether a "FP Only" track for TSMM would be feasible.

I have thought from the beginning that one possible feature of MM+/FP+ could eventually be a "virtual queue" system that would eliminate the standby lines of an hour or longer that frequently develop quickly at a couple of the most popular attractions, especially on very busy days. My idea is that the standby line could be allowed to reach a certain length to ensure that there will always be enough guests in line to keep the ride operating at maximum capacity. But, once the line reaches a certain length (such as 45-60 minutes) anyone wishing to go standby would be assigned a time at which they could return to the standby line. So, instead of waiting in that line for 90-120 minutes or more, the guest could do other things and then wait 45-60 minutes in the line later. By using MDE and the magic bands, it should be possible to ensure that each guest can only have a space in one virtual queue at a time.

I think that some standby line is necessary to avoid wasted capacity on a ride, especially at the very beginning and very end of the day. Even if enough FPs are issued to cover capacity for the whole day, the ebb and flow of people returning (and no shows) will create peaks and gaps in the number of guests in the boarding area. Even the current test at TSMM recognizes that, as the reports have been that the standby line is open for a short time after the park opens and at least some times after that.

In the meantime, I'm willing to see where this goes before getting too worked up about it.

+1

 

[chelseabun76]

But, if someone had booked their FP+ (in advance) for another park for that evening, and assumed, like a normal person, that they'd be able to wait SB if they went to DHS earlier in the day, they were out of luck unless they sacrificed the other park FP+, correct? If true, that's not cool at all. To those guests, the ride is essentially out of service.

This is like one day I have planned in January. Few hours at HS with no fp+ then over to Epcot with fp+. So if something like this were to continue, why even bother park hopping.

 

[strangebutspecial]

I agree that this is probably a test of line management rather than a test for eliminating standby lines. The way they handled it, though, sounds awful by all accounts. They could have done the exact same test using observation of a normal ride day, math, and maybe a computer simulation of crowds. There are staticians and people specialized in crowd behavioral modeling whose whole career it is to do exactly whatever they were trying to do in meatspace.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I agree that this is probably a test of line management rather than a test for eliminating standby lines. The way they handled it, though, sounds awful by all accounts. They could have done the exact same test using observation of a normal ride day, math, and maybe a computer simulation of crowds. There are staticians and people specialized in crowd behavioral modeling whose whole career it is to do exactly whatever they were trying to do in meatspace.

Yes. I don't know whether it was a test of line management or a test of allowing FP+ only, but the result was the same for the families who were visiting DHS. Every time I hear, "Stay calm, it's just a test, it will get better," I can't help thinking of all the families who save every penny to take their kids to Disney just once in a childhood.

 

[vleeth]

The whole thing sounds insane.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yes. I don't know whether it was a test of line management or a test of allowing FP+ only, but the result was the same for the families who were visiting DHS. Every time I hear, "Stay calm, it's just a test, it will get better," I can't help thinking of all the families who save every penny to take their kids to Disney just once in a childhood.

And this really is the crux of the issue.

If it was a test of line management, I think they did a very poor job of it. Why not keep standby but slowly ramp up the FP distribution behind the scenes, sort of stress testing the system to see when the line started to behave like they wanted? Why the need to take such a drastic measure all at once? It shows an utter disregard for the value of the vacation dollars spent by guests in the park this week.

 

[eliza61]

I keep seeing posts like this as a recurring theme from long time Disney vacationers, and yet the parks are still packed to the gills. I really think that for those of us that have gone to Disney a long time that we are able to see the changes for what they are, which are a deterioration in the value of the vacation dollars we spend. Basically, we know we are getting less in return for paying more.

this maybe true lugnut but it's also very sad.

As other's said(and I've not read all the post) I feel bad for the first timer's who may not be Disney savvy or researches to death a vacation.

I too am a long time guest and I have been spending less time and money on the mouse. I still totally have a good time but I agree with you, I know that Disney is no longer a great value.

Now I don't expect my one family to make a difference but I do long for the days when Disney thought of guest as actual vacationers instead of a number.

to those that don't see this as any thing permanent, remember all the folks who said that the fast pass kiosk would not go away. LOL, they got rid of them 2 weeks after magic bands and fp+ came on the scene.

They are doing away with standby lines. Period. I'm almost willing to be a paycheck that maybe by next summer the headliners will not have standby lines at all.

 

[ibela]

But, if someone had booked their FP+ (in advance) for another park for that evening, and assumed, like a normal person, that they'd be able to wait SB if they went to DHS earlier in the day, they were out of luck unless they sacrificed the other park FP+, correct?

If true, that's not cool at all. To those guests, the ride is essentially out of service.

And for those that had pre-selected a F! fp+ at their 60 day mark, the ride is essentially out of service for them too. They're not eligible for additional FP+ and can now no longer ride SB. Maybe if they went back to their original FP rules of 2+ hours out, so if your next/final FP+ is more than 2 hours out, you can book the additional....that may be better. And SB availability during rope drop.

 

[cakebaker]

So glad they leveled the playing field and stopped the expert superusers with this amazing FP+ system.

I haven't been on disboards for awhile since the only theme park trip in the works is a return to Universal to satisfy my Potterphiles, but I saw an article about the TSMM test.

What happened to some of the main arguments from the pro-FP+ people? Namely, "It's going to level the playing field and make things so much more fair for the newbies?" I'm pretty sure that argument has been abandoned at this point. Now, it's not enough to even have past Disney experience, read a guidebook, or ask a friend because your info will be out of date. And don't forget, "You don't ever have to use FP+ to ride. Just get in the standby line, at rope drop if possible or just be patient and wait like the old days."

It seems like the main positives we're left with is that you can plan 60/30 days ahead and you can sleep in if you plan 60/30 days ahead. I research vacations to the point that other people think I'm a bit crazy, and I don't want to need a spreadsheet for vacation. I once planned a vacation basically down to the hour and decided never again because it felt like executing a plan instead of having fun.

I certainly never claimed that fp+ would make it easier for newbies. For us, WDW has always been the most time consuming, planning intensive vacation we ever take. Looking back the first few trips we made were just practice runs learning how the system works. It was a long time before we could actually fully enjoy all the parks. WDW will never be an easy to plan vacation, not if you don't want to miss out on a lot.

You still can use standby. There is no evidence to suggest that this testing is a precursor to a standby free park. It's all rumor and conjecture and honestly a lot of Dis hysteria. The most likely theory is this is a test in advance of the expansion of TSMM. It's a test they obviously have to do and one that has to be done with people in the park.

Sleeping in not a benefit of fp+ for us. I hate sleeping in at WDW, in fact anytime any one of us complain about tired, someone will, without fail, say suck it up, we can sleep at home. We're at a park opening every morning. FP+ simply made park hopping possible and effective.

I realize it's disappointing, but one should never base the success of their trip on a single ride nor tell their children we ARE doing this, that or the other. You never know going in to a park that THE ride you love is going to be up and running. And to the kid that's disappointed, it makes no difference to them if the ride is down because of mechanical difficulties or not. Not riding, is not riding.

 

[North of Mouse]

Canceling our complete 10 day trip in November - sick with their whole games and mandatory planning - for what used to be a fun filled relaxed vacation. We are going elsewhere where we 'know' we won't be stressed - actually that's what 'our' vacations are for and will be.

 

[FlipHipster]

My two cents worth.

First, I am strongly opposed to totally eliminating the standby line for any ride.

But, I am far from convinced that this "test" is a sign that complete elimination of any standby lines is coming on a regular basis. I think that what they may be doing is trying to see if they can manage the distribution of FPs in a way that would maintain a steady flow of guests onto an attraction without creating an undesirably long wait for FP holders or wasted capacity. This could be part of the consideration of whether a "FP Only" track for TSMM would be feasible.

I have thought from the beginning that one possible feature of MM+/FP+ could eventually be a "virtual queue" system that would eliminate the standby lines of an hour or longer that frequently develop quickly at a couple of the most popular attractions, especially on very busy days. My idea is that the standby line could be allowed to reach a certain length to ensure that there will always be enough guests in line to keep the ride operating at maximum capacity. But, once the line reaches a certain length (such as 45-60 minutes) anyone wishing to go standby would be assigned a time at which they could return to the standby line. So, instead of waiting in that line for 90-120 minutes or more, the guest could do other things and then wait 45-60 minutes in the line later. By using MDE and the magic bands, it should be possible to ensure that each guest can only have a space in one virtual queue at a time.

I think that some standby line is necessary to avoid wasted capacity on a ride, especially at the very beginning and very end of the day. Even if enough FPs are issued to cover capacity for the whole day, the ebb and flow of people returning (and no shows) will create peaks and gaps in the number of guests in the boarding area. Even the current test at TSMM recognizes that, as the reports have been that the standby line is open for a short time after the park opens and at least some times after that.

In the meantime, I'm willing to see where this goes before getting too worked up about it.

I agree about the SB times and have more or less said the same thing in the past. Someone wants to make the 90 min SB lines go away. It sounds like their target number is ~30 mins, 45 may be past the breaking point for most guests. FP+ is well suited for this except for those dang open ended SB lines.

Still there are only so many ways to slice a pie, eventually you run out of pie. Either you:
A) add enough capacity that nobody has to wait more than 30 mins
B) reduce the number of people so that nobody has to wait more than 30 mins.

Maybe they are testing guest reaction to option B.

 

[Andyman33]

The results will be great for them if they are testing b because they are only surveying people who got to ride lol

 

[vacationer1954]

They use to be at the top of the theme park game.

They still are. People have and will always complain. Nothing is different.

 

[strangebutspecial]

They are doing away with standby lines. Period. I'm almost willing to be a paycheck that maybe by next summer the headliners will not have standby lines at all.

If that's true, it seems more likely that they would replace standby lines with a Dumbo-like virtual queue system rather than rides "by appointment only".

Honestly, my biggest concern is that Disney is not more sophisticated in their crowd management already. They used to be the best at it, but since they increased crowd levels, it's like they're at a loss for what to do. The fact that they're standing out there with clipboards and running studies in real time, impacting people's vacations, and not running numbers through a piece of software and doing this all behind the scenes is kind of shocking to me. A company the size of Disney must employ mathematicians and programmers for exactly this sort of thing, surely?* I mean, we're talking about something that should have been in place 15-20 years ago.