TSA 'tweaks' @@

[CarolA]

Your option in that regard is to refuse to fly. At this point, air travel is a regulated industry, and TSA control over security is in the interest of the nation's national defense.

Nope, my option is to let my elected officals know that if this is how they protect the nation, they are NOT doing the job they were elected to do. Explain to me how telling a handicapped individual that they have to remove their shoes "is in the interest of the nation's national defense."? The same "defense" can be accomplished by having that person go thru security and then have thier shoes inspected while they are on their feet, but NO... instead we ABUSE the passenger. Expain to me where confiscation of properly labeled cancer drugs "is in the interest of the nation's national defense"? Where is does threatening me with a strip search for having a corkscrew fit in the defense?

This has more to do with "I can be a bully" then with concern over your saftey... Sad isn't it!

 

[bicker]

Absolutely... that too, Carol. You can elect not to fly, AND tell your representatives that you're displeased. Very true.

As I've mentioned before, neither I nor the TSA have to explain to you anything about national defense. You're not entitled to sensitive information from the TSA, and I'm not going to try to explain anything to you given that you've very effectively convinced me, at least, that you don't have any intention of accepting any reasonable explainations along those lines.

You're welcome to ask your representatives, and technically they should want to give you an answer, but you're not necessarily entitled to an answer that will absolutely satisfy you, that contains enough information to convince you, assuming that you would allow for the possibility of being convinced.

You're inclined against their rules, and you've made that clear repeatedly, and that's fine, but no matter how much you complain, that doesn't make you any more entitled to getting what you want.

Just curious: Who exactly would "be the bully" in your interactions with the TSA?

 

[CarolA]

Actually Bicker, what's really great is listening to the TSA supervisors trying to explain this IDIOTIC behavior. Trust me, National Defense never comes up. Instead I hear that "you must have misunderstood" (I had witnesses in one case who pointed out that several of us heard the IDIOT so we didn't all misunderstand) One Supervisor told me that "people fake injuries" I then asked how his staff was trained to "diagnosis medical ailments" boy did he get squirmy then before FINALLY admitting they were wrong.

Making up the rules as you go does not IMHO make us any safter. And I think in fact it probably makes us less safe. Let's see, your cute you can bring on the big bottle of hairspray, but the guy behind you has to dump his shaving creme. And you are safer now??? (And yes, I have seem flirting work as a way to avoid playing by the rules. Wear REALLY high heels, flirt with the TSA agent in Atlanta and you can wear them thru the machine no problem!)

 

[bicker]

The TSA agents should know better. They should simply state that those are the rules and if you want to pass through security you'll comply. It's like some CMs at WDW and at CRO who strangly feel they're obligated to answer questions that they are in no position to know the answer to... silence is golden sometimes.

Incidentally, terrorists do fake things to trick security; injuries, nationalities, even gender. Fakery is a very big risk factor.

Regarding the rest: You have repeatedly rejected reasonable explanations, so I don't know why you continue to prompt for them.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Except for the TSA manning the barricades and denying entry to parts of airports, exactly how is the airline industry regulated? Certainly not the fares, not the routes and not rules about passenger compensation - all things that also protected us as well as regulated the industry. Back in the 70's, you could make this arguement, but not since Carter signed the Airline Deregulation Act.
Sure, there is flight control and minimal equipment and pilot standards, but nothing like in the days of it being a regulated industry.
In reality what we have now is the travelling public being regulated. I know I'm not the only person on this board who has been told "If you want to fly today, you'll . . . fillin the blank. In my case it was "...take off your shoes," despite the fact that TSA clearly allows swabbing for people who can not/should not take off their shoes.

 

[bicker]

Deregulation addressed fares and service offerings. The FAA still regulates maintenance, equipment, and flight operations.

 

[CPT Tripss]

And the FAA and TSA are not related. As far as regulation, by your definition everything is government regulated. That's a bit broard to me, but...

And, I'll bet you thought the Department of Homeland Security was new! http://www.westwindworld.com/

 

[canwegosoon]

Last weekend I flew in and out of ALB and ORD...we had no problems, and it seemed that most people knew of the restrictions and were meeting them. I will agree that removal of shoes is annoying(I have messed up knees) so I wear slip-on sneakers. I saw people in flip flops. No one said you couldn't make it easy on yourself. Loafers(even slippers) would be another good option for limited mobitity people.

The TSA were making the 3.4 oz announcement...and really I had no problem with carry on luggage only.

I have lived in and visited several countries that have been under military control (due to terriorists/or civil war) and trust me, while we as Americans think this is invading and inconvient...trust me it is way easier than other realities. I am amazed(living in NY) how quick some people have forgotten about 9-11...but some of us never will. You know, if the extra 1/2 hour of screening saves another 2,000 lives...I will gladly stand there(without making snappy comments to TSA people like I have seen done).

 

[bicker]

Sorry, I got my threads crossed.

What's interesting is that direct government control of the security at airports (i.e., the TSA agents we're talking about) is indeed NEW.

 

[rparmfamily]

Last weekend I flew in and out of ALB and ORD...we had no problems, and it seemed that most people knew of the restrictions and were meeting them. I will agree that removal of shoes is annoying(I have messed up knees) so I wear slip-on sneakers. I saw people in flip flops. No one said you couldn't make it easy on yourself. Loafers(even slippers) would be another good option for limited mobitity people.

The TSA were making the 3.4 oz announcement...and really I had no problem with carry on luggage only.

I have lived in and visited several countries that have been under military control (due to terriorists/or civil war) and trust me, while we as Americans think this is invading and inconvient...trust me it is way easier than other realities. I am amazed(living in NY) how quick some people have forgotten about 9-11...but some of us never will. You know, if the extra 1/2 hour of screening saves another 2,000 lives...I will gladly stand there(without making snappy comments to TSA people like I have seen done).

I don't believe anyone has forgotten 9/11!!!!! For a lot of FFlyers TSA are a waste of time. A good portion really do not know what they are doing and if you question them they immediately hide behind their "badge" and automatically think that your a criminial. How many times do you hear from the news sources that people do independent investigations and clearly get weapons thru the checkpoints? You probably hear that weekly. The bottom line is that the TSA agents are undertrained and think they have all of the power in the world. They also need some training in customer service.



KIP Hawley IS AN IDIOT!!!!!!

 

[CarolA]

I love it when the defense of the goverment is REMEMBER 9/11. Yeah like we forgot.

However, blindly following your goverment without thinking is not any better then the claims that we forget 9/11. Throughout history some of the most horrid things have happend in societies where people just "followed the goverment" (Lets go back a little farther then 9/11, think WWII for example!) 9/11 did NOT make the goverment automatically right in all things and the TSA was a knee jerk reaction then, one that has never been dealt with properly.

I think airline travel is safer today then prior to 9/11 and I think the TSA checkpoints have little to nothing to do with that increased safety. IMHO safety was increased when the cockpits were secured and when your local law enforcement agencies, FBI and CIA realized the threat existed and took steps to deal with it.

Think about it, the "liquid bomb" was NOT found by the British airport screeners, but by law enforcement.


There are lots of problems with the TSA. One of them is that it's a dead end job which makes it hard to recruit good folks so they lower the standards and we get what we are paying for (Turnover on this job is huge and the goverment's retention plan $500 bonuses... You have got to be kidding? I have worked on outsoucring plans and it takes a LOT more then $500 to get folks to stay in dead end jobs!)

 

[salmoneous]

You know, if the extra 1/2 hour of screening saves another 2,000 lives

But what if the extra 1/2 hour of screening doesn't save another 2,000 lives? What if it is a total waste put in place by a bureaucrat implementing unnecessary rules?

The fact that some rules are necessary shouldn't give the government a blank check to impose any and all rules.

It is a good and proper role of citizens to demand proper and efficient government. (Though that doesn't extend to berating TSA agents themselves.)

 

[bicker]

It is a good and proper role of citizens to demand proper and efficient government

... from their legislators, not from TSA agents in the security area of an airport.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I will not put a monetary or time value on a human life. 9-11 was a tragedy and a shameful act by those who planned, committed, aided and abeted it.

By the same token I will not place a value on liberty or the pusuit of happiness! The 9-11 Commission made many recommendations to really protect our nation. Few of them have been put into practice and that too is shameful as wellas being disrespectful of those who died on 9-11.

 

[CPT Tripss]

... from their legislators, not from TSA agents in the security area of an airport.

Good to see you and Salmoneous singing from the same page.

 

[CPT Tripss]

snip


There are lots of problems with the TSA. One of them is that it's a dead end job which makes it hard to recruit good folks so they lower the standards and we get what we are paying for (Turnover on this job is huge and the goverment's retention plan $500 bonuses... You have got to be kidding? I have worked on outsoucring plans and it takes a LOT more then $500 to get folks to stay in dead end jobs!)

Studies in health care show that employees will switch jobs for as little as $0.25/hour . . .

 

[canwegosoon]

But what if the extra 1/2 hour of screening doesn't save another 2,000 lives? What if it is a total waste put in place by a bureaucrat implementing unnecessary rules?

The fact that some rules are necessary shouldn't give the government a blank check to impose any and all rules.

It is a good and proper role of citizens to demand proper and efficient government. (Though that doesn't extend to berating TSA agents themselves.)

still ok with me...if it were and issue I know how to reach my congresspersons.

 

[canwegosoon]

I love it when the defense of the goverment is REMEMBER 9/11. Yeah like we forgot.

However, blindly following your goverment without thinking is not any better then the claims that we forget 9/11. Throughout history some of the most horrid things have happend in societies where people just "followed the goverment" (Lets go back a little farther then 9/11, think WWII for example!) 9/11 did NOT make the goverment automatically right in all things and the TSA was a knee jerk reaction then, one that has never been dealt with properly.

I think airline travel is safer today then prior to 9/11 and I think the TSA checkpoints have little to nothing to do with that increased safety. IMHO safety was increased when the cockpits were secured and when your local law enforcement agencies, FBI and CIA realized the threat existed and took steps to deal with it.

Think about it, the "liquid bomb" was NOT found by the British airport screeners, but by law enforcement.


There are lots of problems with the TSA. One of them is that it's a dead end job which makes it hard to recruit good folks so they lower the standards and we get what we are paying for (Turnover on this job is huge and the goverment's retention plan $500 bonuses... You have got to be kidding? I have worked on outsoucring plans and it takes a LOT more then $500 to get folks to stay in dead end jobs!)

I agree with many points you are making...but when people are verbally taunting TSA people "Yeah like this is going to solve anything(refering to the baggies)"...you know what I do have a problem with that. People have a right to their opinion about the level of security they think we need...but the TSA agent is not the person or place to make those comments to.(I did witness this last week at local airport).
Also I am a little sensetive since I had convicted terrorists meeting right across the street from me(yes I did call the FBI)in a sleepy little town.

 

[CPT Tripss]

No doubt there are flyers who taunt the TSA employees as you describe. Not fair, not appropriate, but like the law enforcement officer being called a "pig," it is an unfortunate part of the job. It does not justify the government employee harassing back.
No doubt too there are TSA employees who cop an attitude with flyers who are either unaware of the screening process' rules or with flyers who are well aware of the screening peocess rules and expect the TSA to follow those rules.
If one is disabled or has orthopedic footwear, shoes can stay on and be swabbed. TSA employees are too often unwilling to do that and incorrectly demand that people remove their shoes. No need to wear footwear that id bad for your condition just to appease the TSA screener who doesn't know the rule.

 

[CarolA]

I agree with many points you are making...but when people are verbally taunting TSA people "Yeah like this is going to solve anything(refering to the baggies)"...you know what I do have a problem with that. People have a right to their opinion about the level of security they think we need...but the TSA agent is not the person or place to make those comments to.(I did witness this last week at local airport).
Also I am a little sensetive since I had convicted terrorists meeting right across the street from me(yes I did call the FBI)in a sleepy little town.

I have not yet witnessed anyone taunt the TSA agents. I have witnessed the TSA abuse the passengers. (And I don't think putting the first amendment on your baggie is "taunting". Not that I have done that) Most folks are like me and try to avoid ALL coversation with the TSA agents.

I have never complained to an agent at the airport about any of their rules when they are consistently enforced. Yes, I think the baggie rule is stupid so I wrote the administration at the TSA and my elected officials. When I fly I play by the rules, I don't think the agents should be blamed. Of course for that to really work they need to play by the rules too. They can't make up new rules if they don't want abuse. When they make up new rules or don't follow the existing rules (i.e., forcing disabled individuals to remove thier shoes) then they should not be harrassed by me, they should be disciplined by thier supervisor. So I don't complain to the guy harrassing, I just ask for a supervisor. That's how I would want someone to handle an issue with one of my direct reports.