*Truck and Towing thread........ask your questions here.*

sirenia88

You are a Toy car!
Joined
May 25, 2004
Good luck with the new trailer purchase @tiggerdad Ironically, my new trailer would have been right at the mark with my old 250. I always said I would go no more than 10K and we are at around 9500 total. It would have pulled with no problem since my 2016 350 was pretty much identical to my 11 250. Thankfully, we went with a 350 in mind of a new trailer for the future. Just didn't expect both in the same year. Who knows probably a 1 ton dually will be in your future.
 

Sluf

Mouseketeer
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
2012 f250

Increasing block height to same as f350. Just giving her some extra sag room. Good thing about airbags is can adjust to level her out.
Not sure about the 2012 F250s, but the 99-03 F250s have the exact same springs as the F350s. Changing the blocks and U bolts does nothing more than raise it to the height of an F350, just as you said.
 

tiggerdad

I don't always get distracted but whe...SQUIRREL!
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
350 has the taller block and helper spring. Depending on who you ask the 350 has a 37 spline shaft where the 250 has 35. Also shaft diameter of 250 2.5" and reportedly the 350 is 2.57. Again, depends on who you ask. Turns into heated debate sometimes but the two diesel mechanics I've talked with about it told me the only 350s they saw with bigger rear shafts and increased splines were the DRW 350 and not the SRW. Again, this is always a debate.

I'm just looking at keeping her level. Not sure on weight of trailer as we haven't decided model yet.

Looking at toy hauler 5th wheels, but smaller ones. Not like Randy and Patricks 18000# rigs. Way past my limits.

Dually not really an option for me as I have to use it for everyday ride and our assigned parking at work is hard enough with the 250. Not saying I won't, but not likely. Wife due for new vehicle soon and my oldest is just 3 years from driving. So I really don't want another truck note knowing my camper notes are gonna be higher also.
 
  • Sluf

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2018
    I have a question about leveling my 5er for towing. It has to be considerably high in the front since I have to drop it so far to level it after I unhook it. I have a dilemma though. The pin box is adjusted all the way down, and my hitch is adjusted all the way up. I imagine the hitch would be easier to adjust than the pin box, especially since I'll be doing it myself. I have just under 12" between the bed and the camper, so I have a lot of room to spare. My dilemma is this. I really want to put a truck box above my 37 gallon transfer tank. Since I just bought my truck about 6 weeks ago, and know very little about it, I plan to replace some parts before I make a 730 mile trip to FW. The water pumps on these 7.3s are notorious for going out at around 190k. I'm at 213k. I plan to replace the serpentine belt, idler, tensioner, upper and lower radiator hoses, etc while I'm there. I'd like to have my truck box in there so I can put all those parts in it in case something were to happen along the way. What do you think Leave it high, or lower it?
     

    Sluf

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2018
    350 has the taller block and helper spring. Depending on who you ask the 350 has a 37 spline shaft where the 250 has 35. Also shaft diameter of 250 2.5" and reportedly the 350 is 2.57. Again, depends on who you ask. Turns into heated debate sometimes but the two diesel mechanics I've talked with about it told me the only 350s they saw with bigger rear shafts and increased splines were the DRW 350 and not the SRW. Again, this is always a debate.

    I'm just looking at keeping her level. Not sure on weight of trailer as we haven't decided model yet.

    Looking at toy hauler 5th wheels, but smaller ones. Not like Randy and Patricks 18000# rigs. Way past my limits.

    Dually not really an option for me as I have to use it for everyday ride and our assigned parking at work is hard enough with the 250. Not saying I won't, but not likely. Wife due for new vehicle soon and my oldest is just 3 years from driving. So I really don't want another truck note knowing my camper notes are gonna be higher also.
    When you say helper springs, are you referring to the overload springs? I honestly think my 2001 F250 may have 350 blocks on it. It seems to sit incredibly high to me. The bottom of my wheel wells are 39" off the ground, and it just looks like it's high in the rear. My cousin owned the truck before me. He was the second owner of the truck. The owner before him pulled a 5er with it. I think the first owner may have done the F350 blocks.

    Again, I can only speak to the 99-03 trucks, but since both the F250 and F350 SRW have a Sterling axle in them, and the DRW has a Dana 80, I'd guess that you're correct in your thought that they were talking about the DRW. Not sure if it matters or not on spline numbers, but on the Dana 80, the carrier is different between a 3.73 and a 4.10 gear. You can't just gear swap them.
     

    tiggerdad

    I don't always get distracted but whe...SQUIRREL!
    Joined
    Jul 8, 2009
    Having no experience on pulling 5er as of yet I can't really comment on the adjustment.

    Overload and helper springs, referring to same thing.

    Funny thing is I gotta eat some crow here. A few pages back I referred to the 1000# extra capacity of the 350 as not being very much. However now that I'm looking at pin weights I realize that I was wrong. 1000# of capacity difference IS a big difference.

    It takes a big man to admit he's wrong.

    I am not a big man.

    More like average size really.

    Could really stand to lose some weight.

    However, I'll admit I was wrong on that one.
     

    Sluf

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2018
    My 2007 Copper Canyon has a pin weight of around 1700 lbs. When unloaded, my F250 is anywhere from 39" to 39.5" at the center of the wheel wells, to the ground at the tire. With my 5er attached, it only drops to around 38". That's not a lot, but as I said, I think the first owner may have either installed the overloads, or possibly they were factory. It's a Lariat, so that may have triggered the springs, or it may have the towing package. Not real sure what that would have included.

    I can't imagine anything you or I would pull with a F250 would have a high enough pin weight to warrant upgrading to an F350.
     
  • tiggerdad

    I don't always get distracted but whe...SQUIRREL!
    Joined
    Jul 8, 2009
    Toy hauler I'm looking at has pin weight empty of about 1700#. I'm just trying to be over cautious.

    1" drop when 5er hooked up is basically nothing. Shows how much a difference they make.

    I imagine the folks driving the DRW are laughing at me. (Looking at you Jim, Randy). Of course Chris and his Volvo are probably rolling on floor.
     

    Teamubr

    Formerly racing around the country.
    Joined
    Nov 7, 2010
    Sluf,

    Your truck probably did have the blocks swapped. I had an 02 F250 and was very active on the Powerstroke forum back then. Mine had the 2 in. block and I swapped it for the 4 in one from the F350. The only other factor that mechanically limited the F250 was the factory tires. If you added the max load on the factory tires, it came out to the GVWR exactly. The F350 had slightly bigger tires with a higher load rating.

    And 1700 is a perfect weight for the F250. My old 5er had about a 1700 pin and it was a great match for the 250. The new 5er comes in over 3000 on the pin. I don't think my old F250 would have liked it very much.

    As for moving the hitch height vs the pin box, both are pretty easy. I had to move the pin box on my old 5er when I bought my dually. Just some big bolts. A long torque wrench is all it took.

    j
     
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    Sluf

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2018
    Sluf,

    Your truck probably did have the blocks swapped. I had an 02 F250 and was very active on the Powerstroke forum back then. Mine had the 2 in. block and I swapped it for the 4 in one from the F350. The only other factor that mechanically limited the F250 was the factory tires. If you added the max load on the factory tires, it came out to the GVWR exactly. The F350 had slightly bigger tires with a higher load rating.

    And 1700 is a perfect weight for the F250. My old 5er had about a 1700 pin and it was a great match for the 250. The new 5er comes in over 3000 on the pin. I don't think my old F250 would have liked it very much.

    As for moving the hitch height vs the pin box, both are pretty easy. I had to move the pin box on my old 5er when I bought my dually. Just some big bolts. A long torque wrench is all it took.

    j
    3000lbs pin weight!?!? Wow! I would have never thought there would be a pin weight that big.

    I measured the truck box I have today. It's a crossover box. It's about 5" tall above the rails, and 13" deep below the rails. I only have 10" to the top of the tank, and then there are vents and a gauge on top. I think what I'm going to do is cut about 5" off the bottom of the toolbox and then weld the bottom back in it.
     

    PaHunter

    Photographer in need of training...
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2014
    3000lbs pin weight!?!? Wow! I would have never thought there would be a pin weight that big.

    I measured the truck box I have today. It's a crossover box. It's about 5" tall above the rails, and 13" deep below the rails. I only have 10" to the top of the tank, and then there are vents and a gauge on top. I think what I'm going to do is cut about 5" off the bottom of the toolbox and then weld the bottom back in it.
    Actually a 3K pin weight is not all that uncommon. I know the DRV line of fifth wheels, and other high end trailers are all at 3K or more for a pin weight. We will be shortening our pin box to increase our pin weight. I have to roll my set up over the scales one of these days. My hitch is rated to 32K and a pin weight of 8K, I don't think I need to worry too much.
     
  • PaHunter

    Photographer in need of training...
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2014
    Toy hauler I'm looking at has pin weight empty of about 1700#. I'm just trying to be over cautious.

    1" drop when 5er hooked up is basically nothing. Shows how much a difference they make.

    I imagine the folks driving the DRW are laughing at me. (Looking at you Jim, Randy). Of course Chris and his Volvo are probably rolling on floor.
    Drop ??? What is that ?? :rotfl2:
     

    Teamubr

    Formerly racing around the country.
    Joined
    Nov 7, 2010
    3000lbs pin weight!?!? Wow! I would have never thought there would be a pin weight that.
    Actually I think I'm around 3300. 42 ft and 4 slides, 2 of those 14 ft long. Trailer weighs about 15,000. 5er pin weight is generally 20-25% of the total.

    That is a lot of work on the tool box. It sounds like you already have the fuel tank and the box, but have you looked at the combo fuel/tool boxes? I have a 60 gallon aux tank, but I considered a combo, except I wanted it all below the bed rails so I could close my tonneau cover.

    j
     

    Sluf

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2018
    Actually I think I'm around 3300. 42 ft and 4 slides, 2 of those 14 ft long. Trailer weighs about 15,000. 5er pin weight is generally 20-25% of the total.

    That is a lot of work on the tool box. It sounds like you already have the fuel tank and the box, but have you looked at the combo fuel/tool boxes? I have a 60 gallon aux tank, but I considered a combo, except I wanted it all below the bed rails so I could close my tonneau cover.

    j
    Yeah, I already have both. The tank was in the truck when I bought it, and my father-in-law gave me the toolbox. Cutting the toolbox down won't be a problem. I can just mark it and cut it with a circular saw. Then I can cut the remainder of the sides off of the bottom part on my table saw. That's the beauty of thin aluminum! I'll probably just take it into the shop at work and weld it back in. I may even consider cutting it down at the top so that it doesn't sit as high above the rails.
     

    mickeyfan0805

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 12, 2007
    Funny thing is I gotta eat some crow here. A few pages back I referred to the 1000# extra capacity of the 350 as not being very much. However now that I'm looking at pin weights I realize that I was wrong. 1000# of capacity difference IS a big difference.
    Totally agreed - if you are talking payload, 1,000 pounds can make a HUGE difference. At 20% pine weight, that equates to another 5,000 pounds in a fw, and at 12.5%, it would mean another 8k for a travel trailer. Obviously the other ratings all come into play (especially rear axle with a fw), but payload can be the limiting factor in a lot situations, so that extra capacity can make a huge difference.
     

    sirenia88

    You are a Toy car!
    Joined
    May 25, 2004
    Totally agreed - if you are talking payload, 1,000 pounds can make a HUGE difference. At 20% pine weight, that equates to another 5,000 pounds in a fw, and at 12.5%, it would mean another 8k for a travel trailer. Obviously the other ratings all come into play (especially rear axle with a fw), but payload can be the limiting factor in a lot situations, so that extra capacity can make a huge difference.
    My 2011 F250 was GVW 9600 with payload of 2100 before people and any cargo/ items on board. My 16 F350 is GVW 11,300 with a payload of 3950 before people and cargo. Loaded out the 250 was generally around 7700 with me and a tank of fuel when I would pass though the scales. My current 350 is the same if not a tick lighter since I didn't put the cargo box back in. However, I have the same cargo under the rear seat and behind. Same items in the door. Recently, I scaled the new trailer and truck with a very skewed cargo load. The truck was carrying 9650# and the trailer was carrying around 8000# (figure some weight transfer between the trailer to the truck thru WDH.) I was at 17,600 combined and just under my 19000 CGVW for my axle ratio which is 3.73. Front axle on the truck is rated for 6,000 pounds and the rear is a 7,000 pound rating. The axle ration was a 4.30 set it would have had a 22,000 rating. If it was a diesel I go to 26 or 29K combined rating.
     

    Sluf

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2018
    So I'm making a few tow vehicle upgrades next week, as well as some preventive maintenance work.

    Let's talk about preventive maintenance. I bought the truck from my cousin. He's owned it since around 2010. He never had ANY trouble out of it. That's a double edged sword. That means all the parts are either original (2001), or they've been replaced, but 8+ years ago. It had 98k miles on it when he bought it. To my knowledge (and his), it still has the factory water pump in it, with 17 years and 213k miles on it. I went ahead and ordered a water pump, as well as upper and lower radiator hoses, new serpentine belt, tensioner, and idler. That should take care of everything on the engine, except maybe an alternator. I may go ahead and pick one up to throw in the truck box for the trip in February.

    Now for the upgrades (the fun stuff). I ordered a tuner from DP Tuner with 5 tunes on it. Position #0 - NO Start, #1 - Stock, #2 - 60hp Economy, #3 - 80hp Economy and #4 - 60hp Tow. I also ordered gauges with trans temp, boost, and EGT. Finally, to get rid of that hot exhaust, I ordered a 4" turbo back exhaust system.

    Tuesday is my next day off. Should be an interesting Monday and Tuesday! We're goi g camping next weekend locally. I can't wait to see how the tow tune performs.
     

    Teamubr

    Formerly racing around the country.
    Joined
    Nov 7, 2010
    Now for the upgrades (the fun stuff). I ordered a tuner from DP Tuner with 5 tunes on it. Position #0 - NO Start, #1 - Stock, #2 - 60hp Economy, #3 - 80hp Economy and #4 - 60hp Tow. I also ordered gauges with trans temp, boost, and EGT. Finally, to get rid of that hot exhaust, I ordered a 4" turbo back exhaust system.
    You will love the tune and the exhaust. That is almost exactly what I did to my 02 F250. Dp Tuner 5 position switch too. (Still have it in my tool box). Mine was 40, 60, 80, 80 economy and 125. Never used anything except 80 econ when towing and 125 the rest of the time. A-pillar gauges, 4 in MBRP exhaust, cold air box, upgraded HPOP, turbo pedestal upgrade and high pressure oil line crossover.
    It turned the truck into a towing beast. It made about the same HP and torque as my current truck (400/800), but weighed 1400 lbs less. I loved that truck until it got electrical gremlins at 192,000.

    Two other things you should replace or keep a spare in the glove box. First, turbo intercooler boots. THESE are the ones I put on. They are made to take the extra boost the chip will make. The originals have to have been replaced, but the extra boost from the chip will strain what ever is on there. I blew mine off coming home from work one night. The 7.3 doesn't want to run without them. Oddly, I blew a similar pipe on my 2011 last month on the way to Disney.

    Second, pick up a CPS (cam position sensor), or 3. The 7.3s are notorious for them failing. They are cheap. Like $19 in the link I gave. Also throw a 10mm wrench in with it. It is on the lower front of the engine and it takes 2 minutes to replace if you have the wrench. I changed 3 of them on the side of the road in the 6 years I had my truck.The CPS does nothing other than tell the computer the engine is turning so keep putting in fuel. When it fails (like driving down the highway... twice) the truck just shuts off. It will crank, but not start.

    j
     

    Sluf

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2018
    You will love the tune and the exhaust. That is almost exactly what I did to my 02 F250. Dp Tuner 5 position switch too. (Still have it in my tool box). Mine was 40, 60, 80, 80 economy and 125. Never used anything except 80 econ when towing and 125 the rest of the time. A-pillar gauges, 4 in MBRP exhaust, cold air box, upgraded HPOP, turbo pedestal upgrade and high pressure oil line crossover.
    It turned the truck into a towing beast. It made about the same HP and torque as my current truck (400/800), but weighed 1400 lbs less. I loved that truck until it got electrical gremlins at 192,000.

    Two other things you should replace or keep a spare in the glove box. First, turbo intercooler boots. THESE are the ones I put on. They are made to take the extra boost the chip will make. The originals have to have been replaced, but the extra boost from the chip will strain what ever is on there. I blew mine off coming home from work one night. The 7.3 doesn't want to run without them. Oddly, I blew a similar pipe on my 2011 last month on the way to Disney.

    Second, pick up a CPS (cam position sensor), or 3. The 7.3s are notorious for them failing. They are cheap. Like $19 in the link I gave. Also throw a 10mm wrench in with it. It is on the lower front of the engine and it takes 2 minutes to replace if you have the wrench. I changed 3 of them on the side of the road in the 6 years I had my truck.The CPS does nothing other than tell the computer the engine is turning so keep putting in fuel. When it fails (like driving down the highway... twice) the truck just shuts off. It will crank, but not start.

    j
    Yep, definitely need to pick up a spare CPS. Had one go bad on me in my 2000 F350 I use to have. I followed that link and it shows a picture of the black CPS. It says it's a Ford part, but if I remember correctly, the black ones are actually an International part, and of better quality. The Ford part is blue I believe. As far as the turbo boots go, I would definitely like to replace them, but I'm gonna have to back-burner them for a little while. I've still got to fund my Disney trip! Lol. If my Tahoe sells anytime soon, I'll pay off my vacation, and go ahead and replace the boots as well.

    Edit: After a little research, the gray CPS was the one that Ford replaced the black one with. The black one from Ford was much better than the gray one. The International CPS was blue, but now international and Ford are both using a dark bluish/purple part. The gray "recall CPS" part number ends with a "-B". The newest revision is "-C". I just put one in my cart on Amazon for $24. Can't beat that for peace of mind!
     
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