Travel Changes?

It's not just that you and your family could get sick w coronavirus or get caught in a quarantine situation. Even if you are not in a high risk population, you could still get infected, have little or no symptoms and them become a carrier while traveling and when you return home. Thus becoming part of the community spread problem.

ABD needs to develop a customer friendly policy or they risk losing future business. The Disney-name only goes so far.
I for one have always trusted the Disney Brand, felt like they took care of me!!! I am DVC, and Gold on cruise line. I am not at all happy with communication and the response compare to other concierge type travel companies. It gives me great pain to say it but this will be my last ABD unless they step up to the plate.
 
Health Alert – U.S. Embassy Cairo, Egypt (March 9, 2020)
Location: Egypt
Event: There is an ongoing outbreak of Coronavirus (COVID-19) first identified in Wuhan, China. The global public health threat posed by COVID-19 is high, with more than 100,000 reported cases worldwide.

· Here is the latest Health Alert from the Department of State regarding travel on cruise ships: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/index.html. U.S. citizens, particularly travelers with underlying health conditions, should not travel by cruise ship.

· The U.S. Embassy in Cairo has been informed by the Embassy of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia that all air travelers who are arriving from or through any airports in the Arab Republic of Egypt must have a complete medical examination (PCR) confirming that they are free of the COVID-19 virus issued 24 hours before boarding a flight to any airport in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The test and exam must be done by one of the laboratories approved by the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Cairo. Please contact the Embassy of Saudi Arabia for more information and a list of the approved laboratories.

· Other countries in the region are also restricting travel for travelers originating in Egypt. Please check with your airline or travel agent for any restrictions.

· The Department of State urges travelers to use good judgment when traveling so as not to put themselves at undue risk of contracting COVID-19.
 
Running through my feed and I came across this. I felt like this belonged here.

“I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too.

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it”
 

yeah, well we just had a senior doctor infect an entire hospital, everyone now has to go into quarantine.
Fun times. He came back from Belgium. Belgium isn't one of the travel restriction countries, so he didn't home-quarantine.
Went back to work in his hospital. All over the place as needed over several days and then oops....he didn't feel so good. So he was tested and yes, covid19
So stupid. We've been saying from the beginning we need a general requirement for all returning travelers, regardless of country, to home-quarantine for 14 days.
But we didn't. Even yesterday, when we finally were going to pull the trigger on that, President Trump convinced our PM not to. How annoying and i actually happen to like Trump, but not on this occasion.
We are going to have a major rise in our numbers, but worse than that, we now have a hospital full of doctors and nurses who need to be quarantined. Think about what that does to availability of medical care in that city. Not good.
 
This is what I'm hearing: "I understand what the numbers say, but why are people PANICKING INSANELY if the numbers don't look so bad? They wouldn't be panicking if it wasn't horrible!" I'm just saying, I do NOT understand the extent of the panic in comparison to what's actually going on. Because it *is* no worse than influenza. We're just used to influenza because it's been around so long, and we feel like we have more control over it, because there's a vaccine and treatments. (Even if the vaccine is not always that effective, and the treatments only work if they are administered within a couple of days). If we shut down the world every time there was an influenza outbreak, the world would be closed for MONTHS every single year. So we've learned to deal with it, and accept the risk.

Running through my feed and I came across this. I felt like this belonged here.

“I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too.

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it”
I saw this on my feed, also, and it helped restore me to sanity. This thread was starting to get to me.

Great point about the burdened medical care. That's one of the things that has been on the news--apparently Milan has one of the best regarded medical systems but it is being seriously overburdened. The phone number to call for possible COVID 19 cases here in the UK has been overburdened as well with hour long waits. I forgot to mention one other issue that I didn't anticipate--the fear of catching a regular cold while on vacation. My daughter and husband seem to always catch something when we travel and having a cold right now would be a nightmare--not only with confusion of whether it's COVID, but also being sick in public and/or when trying to fly home. Can you imagine having a cough right now at an airport/public transport or as part of a tour group? Not fun.
I decided not to go to a wedding in Brooklyn the weekend before last because I had a minor cold. It wasn't so much that I didn't feel up to going (the flight was Thursday, and the wedding was Sunday) but it was not wanting to freak out people on my flight, or maybe getting quarantined in JFK. It ended up turning into a mild case of bronchitis, which I still have a cough from. If I'd gone to Brooklyn, the chances of me boarding my flight home from JFK with this cough (but NO fever!) would probably have been pretty small. And *if* I'd been allowed to board, I'm sure everyone on that flight would have been totally freaking about my cough. I went to a casual restaurant for lunch yesterday, and felt like I had to explain to the server that it was not coronavirus, and that I wasn't contagious. Not a fear of COVID-19 for me, but a fear of the fear, and of the reactions.

Sayhello
 
Running through my feed and I came across this. I felt like this belonged here.

“I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too.

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it”
Thank you for sharing this!
 
I decided not to go to a wedding in Brooklyn the weekend before last because I had a minor cold. It wasn't so much that I didn't feel up to going (the flight was Thursday, and the wedding was Sunday) but it was not wanting to freak out people on my flight, or maybe getting quarantined in JFK. It ended up turning into a mild case of bronchitis, which I still have a cough from. If I'd gone to Brooklyn, the chances of me boarding my flight home from JFK with this cough (but NO fever!) would probably have been pretty small. And *if* I'd been allowed to board, I'm sure everyone on that flight would have been totally freaking about my cough. I went to a casual restaurant for lunch yesterday, and felt like I had to explain to the server that it was not coronavirus, and that I wasn't contagious. Not a fear of COVID-19 for me, but a fear of the fear, and of the reactions.

Sayhello
Exactly! It's the reactions of others, I would be worried about. I'm seeing it everywhere I go.
 
Running through my feed and I came across this. I felt like this belonged here.

“I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too.

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it”


I actually think this is a valid point. Although 99% of colleagues have told me I'm crazy to think of going to France right now, there have been a few colleagues and a couple of them who are ID specialists who have told me its OK to go. In fact, one ID colleague told me I didn't even have to wear a mask. So that was a relief in the sense that I don't have to worry about a flight or going through the airport. Because, lets face it, I live in the NYC area and EWR/JFK aren't all that rosey to begin with. They're baseline disgusting. With COVID fears I'll be more careful of what I touch at the airport.

But while I agree that a lot of this panic is getting a little overblown, Its important to be sensible and not literally fly into a country with as many cases as France. All of those landmarks will be there next year...I promise. That's why we are still getting on a plane for a long flight, but just not going to Europe.

As I said in an earlier post, I think its important for us to not get bogged down with Disney-goggles and think that they can do no wrong. We need to call them out for what's good and what's bad. @WebmasterPete is probably the best example of this. You won't find a bigger Disney fan on this planet, but he's not going to let them get away with stuff. ABD's lack of proper communication on this has been a big misfire on their part.
 
I still can’t believe that ABD has not relaxed their cancellation policies at all. Especially since the state department and the cdc has warned Americans against traveling by cruise. We are booked on the first Danube River cruise and would like the flexibility that has been offered to the early DCL European itineraries. This has become more stressful after seeing the river cruise in Egypt that has COVID-19.

I've been up since 4 am. Minor panic episode in the middle night when it dawned on me that the State Dept. warning may very well apply to our ABD Rhine cruise this summer if this continues. We haven't purchased flights yet which is a positive thing. I was also just about to put a deposit down with a small German tour company for a post-cruise trip through southern Germany. I'm in a holding pattern now, of course. However, like most people on this thread, we are a couple thousand $$ deep with ABD. Ugh. I kind of regret being so organized in planning our travel so far in advance.
 
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Because it *is* no worse than influenza.

Wait, I want to correct this, because I've also seen it in my Facebook and Twitter feeds this morning. It is true that flu kills more people in absolute numbers, because we are more widely exposed to flu. But in terms of rate (the percentage of people who are killed or become critically ill), COVID-19 is significantly worse. Of course we are still trying to get a grasp of "how much worse," but among public health experts there is no doubt that it is worse.

South Korea has probably done the best job of testing of any country, and their death rate is 0.6% (compared to 0.1% for flu). 0.6% is significantly better than 3% seen in other places, but will still be a tremendous burden on our health care system and is still much deadlier than flu. This is why slowing the rate of infection is so critical from a public health perspective - the more slowly it spreads, the better our hospitals can absorb the influx of those who are critically ill.
 
yeah, well we just had a senior doctor infect an entire hospital, everyone now has to go into quarantine.
Fun times. He came back from Belgium. Belgium isn't one of the travel restriction countries, so he didn't home-quarantine.
Went back to work in his hospital. All over the place as needed over several days and then oops....he didn't feel so good. So he was tested and yes, covid19
So stupid. We've been saying from the beginning we need a general requirement for all returning travelers, regardless of country, to home-quarantine for 14 days.
But we didn't. Even yesterday, when we finally were going to pull the trigger on that, President Trump convinced our PM not to. How annoying and i actually happen to like Trump, but not on this occasion.
We are going to have a major rise in our numbers, but worse than that, we now have a hospital full of doctors and nurses who need to be quarantined. Think about what that does to availability of medical care in that city. Not good.


Remember There are no Borders between States in The USA

So This Covid 19 will travel Fast & USA will be a NO GO area
 
This morning we received notice from our school district of 2 confirmed cases here (student and parent) and suspected cases among other parents. School is still on and apparently the children of the suspect cases are still attending. Meanwhile my son's hands are in his mouth all the time and he doesn't wash up properly unless forced to. It's looking an awful lot like I cancelled my vacation and may wind up catching this at home anyway.

I really think ABD should be letting people cancel without penalty for any itinerary now. Those who are in high risk groups probably shouldn't be traveling at all and the rest of us should have the option to cancel to minimize our chances of spreading this (and all the other flu strains going around).

I don't agree with the idea of the whole US automatically becoming some sort of post apocalyptic no go zone though. Borders or not, it is a huge country with lots of diversity in terms of how this is being handled from place to place.
 
This morning we received notice from our school district of 2 confirmed cases here (student and parent) and suspected cases among other parents. School is still on and apparently the children of the suspect cases are still attending. Meanwhile my son's hands are in his mouth all the time and he doesn't wash up properly unless forced to. It's looking an awful lot like I cancelled my vacation and may wind up catching this at home anyway.

I really think ABD should be letting people cancel without penalty for any itinerary now. Those who are in high risk groups probably shouldn't be traveling at all and the rest of us should have the option to cancel to minimize our chances of spreading this (and all the other flu strains going around).

I don't agree with the idea of the whole US automatically becoming some sort of post apocalyptic no go zone though. Borders or not, it is a huge country with lots of diversity in terms of how this is being handled from place to place.
We don't have any confirmed (or as far as I know, even suspected) cases in my town, but we do in the state. Our ABD isn't even until the end of August, but our PIF is coming up and I'm nervous. We're going to Greece, which has only a small number of cases and seems to be responding well, but my mom is in her 70s so I'm definitely anxious. We also paid an arm and a leg for flights that aren't refundable. Right now we're just operating under the assumption that we're going and it'll work out by then, but the mean voice in the back of my head is telling me other things.
 
The "end of times" fear is not necessary, I agree. But it also isn't surprising. It is 100% to be expected when there is a threat to normal daily activity and the unknown. I mean, think about how crazy the grocery store is on the day before a holiday when the store is going to be closed the next day (or closed for a few hours, etc.). Now, add possibility of death to that situation. Now add potential for over-run hospitals and lack of access to the high level of medical care that the ADB travelers on this board are used to and expect. Now add distrust of the government and/or media. What you get is panic, which unfortunately makes everything worse.

And I love statistics - you can make them say whatever you want. Yes, more Americans have died of the normal flu than people have currently in the entire world from Covid-19. And I'd like that to remain true. But, to my knowledge, we don't wear HAZMAT suits to treat flu patients and we don't lock down millions of people to treat the flu (people in Wuhan are literally locked in their apartment building complexes) or have nearly 300,000,000 kids out of school worldwide for over a month for the flu, or let prisoners out of jail due to the flu, etc.

I'm hoping that the world can look back at this next year at this time and laugh at the collective craziness of all of the cancellations, restrictions, etc. But, it isn't clear to me that we will.
 
I had just booked an August trip with Tauck to Scotland. Want to go back there this year and I was gonna redo the ABD (itinerary has changed) but I backed out of that after my great Portugal trip with Tauck (in time to get my ABD refund). Decided to wait until Tauck had it's annual air special for discounted international flights so I just booked 10 days ago. Had 10 day grace period and backed out today to get a deposit refund. I'm not super concerned.... yet. But I don't want to make plans even that far ahead right now. It's all way to chaotic. I echo Donalyn above- I'm hoping we are going overboard over this... but I am not at all sure we are.

Of course, I work at a school and am in CA where it's all over the place (just discovered a confirmed case in a town about 20 minutes from my work, where many of my students live.). I will probably end up infected anyhow, but... I'd rather not be out money. I'll wait and see right now and plan last minute.
 
I feel like there is a lot of back and forth about fear... fear isn't just for you.

Staying home isn't just for you. If you catch it at home, why think, oh, I should have gone? At home you can keep it to yourself. You won't have to be admitted into hospital in a foreign place. You won't catch it and then expose others to it on the plane, in the taxi, at the airport. You (probably) won't be eating out as much, or going to tourist locations while it incubates. At home, we're mostly at home. Even if you go to work, or school because you don't know and spread it, how many people is that compared to the thousands more you'd come into contact with by traveling? We're also allowing our local resources to deal with it versus making it someone else's problem.

I fully expect to catch this thing at some point - I work in a place where people travel all over. One of my coworkers just got back from Italy this weekend and has chosen to quarantine at home (nice!) but then had another coworker bring him his laptop so she's been in contact with him and came to work normally (d'oh!).

I'm not afraid of it. But I do fear spreading it.. if this is all still going down come October - which I do doubt FWIW - we'll cancel our WDW trip.
 
update from Israel where our numbers are starting to climb (we're at 50, after a one day increase of 11)

The ministry of health finally instituted mandatory 14 day home quarantine for ALL travelers returning from ALL countries in the world (including the USA).
.
 














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