Transient Occupancy Tax And VGC owners

ajiuo

Practically Perfect In Every Way
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We know this is going to be a thing at the new Disneyland Tower, but has anybody looked into the possible implications to current VGC owners? Are we going to be looking at a $2.30+ Hike in dues for 2024? Or could they even start charging separately like they are going to at VDH? Are we grandfathered in to a different situation because of when VGC was built.

Curious if any VGC owners have talked to member services about this or looked into the legalities.

I’m honestly pretty nervous about what this is going to mean for us.
 
From discussion on other forums, my understanding is that the VGC rate was established when VGC opened and can’t be changed. Hopefully that’s the case!
 
I'm trying to research this, was there a change in 2011? The current code in Anaheim states TOT is 15% and has to be parsed out separately, so my gut says VGC was essentially grandfathered in, but I am unable to really find good historical information on this.
 
The Anaheim Transient Occupancy Tax ordinance has been in existence since 1992 and became 15% starting in 1995, so no, there is really not any "grandfather " in for VGC, which did not go on sale until 2008. The real difference between VGH and VGC has to do with the different agreements each has with Anaheim. The applicable city ordnance generally makes the 15% tax applicable to those staying at hotels and similar entities, including timeshares, and it is 15% of the rental price and applies to any stays of less than 30 days.

Since timeshares usually do not have rental rates, there is a special provision in the applicable ordinance under which Anaheim can enter into agreements with a timeshare proprietor which can ignore the 15% tax rate to the occupant provision and set up its own tax system based on amounts and factors agreed to, usually related to values and dues. VGC has had such an agreement since its beginning, which I understand has been modified somewhat at times. Rather than basing the applicable tax on reserved rooms and applied to the person reserving the room. the VGC agreement applies a tax as part of dues for all owners, even if they do not stay at the resort during a year. I do not know the actual terms but the amount of the tax is an annual budget item, currently in the 51 cent per point range -- the tax has steadily risen over the years.

It appears, based on the reports I have seen, that the agreement applicable to VGH has an agreed-to per point charge of $2.73 per point (that amount can also rise as time passes), but unlike VGC, the agreement does not adopt it as an item of dues chargeable to all owners. Instead, it will be payable per actual reservation and the tax is per point used for the reservation, which means that even owners of other DVC resorts, who use their points to reserve VGH, will have to pay the tax. The existence of the VGH agreement does not change the VGC agreement.

What I cannot tell from the VGH reports I have seen is exactly who has to pay the tax if someone other than the member is the occupant for the reservation made by the member. What actually applies to that situation will be important to member rentals. If, like the general 15% clause, it is a tax per point used for the reservation which is payable by the occupant, then there will be difficulties for renting, e.g., fewer may want to rent from a member if they have to pay extra in fairly high taxes for the stay. If, instead, the tax is imposed on the member who makes the reservation, the members will likely set rental rates that include at least a share of the taxes. I also wonder what potential purchasers will do when they are told dues are, for example, $9 or $10 a point per year, but if they really want to stay at the resort they have come up with another $2.73 a point every time they make a reservation. One benefit Anaheim gets from a VGC-like agreement is certainty in amounts per year, e.g., even if there is a pandemic closing the rooms for a substantial period of time, Anaheim still gets it taxes paid by dues.
 
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This thread is the first I've read of TOT for the new DVC Villas at Disneyland Hotel. A few related datapoints, adding to the comments/analysis above:
  • DVC at Aulani passes the TOT to the one using the reservation. (It isn't added to the Dues.)
  • Worldmark The Club, a mini-points system with 70+ resorts also passes the TOT to the one using the reservation.
  • In the case of Worldmark the Club, some resorts that were first opened without TOT have, sadly, changed to now charge TOT. (Major bummer for me.)
  • Again, in the case of Worldmark the Club, their two properties in Anaheim behave differently: the newer one charges TOT for every reservation since it opened; the older one does not charge TOT. (Great news for me! Guess which one I prefer? LOL)
 
Not arguing if it is legitimate or not - I believe that it is. I fully understand how a Transient Occupancy Tax is applicable to hotel stays, but how is a TOT applicable to a timeshare? Do we not own a small percentage of the property if we purchase points and it's not a "hotel" to us anymore? I see this akin to me and 11 other buddies buy into a house and each stay at the house for a month out of the year. I don't think I'd have to pay a TOT in that instance...or do I?

Apologies if this is a remedial question... Just wanted to understand this tax a bit more.
 
Not arguing if it is legitimate or not - I believe that it is. I fully understand how a Transient Occupancy Tax is applicable to hotel stays, but how is a TOT applicable to a timeshare? Do we not own a small percentage of the property if we purchase points and it's not a "hotel" to us anymore? I see this akin to me and 11 other buddies buy into a house and each stay at the house for a month out of the year. I don't think I'd have to pay a TOT in that instance...or do I?

Apologies if this is a remedial question... Just wanted to understand this tax a bit more.
The simple explanation is that the applicable Anaheim Municipal Ordinance, Chapter 2.20.000 et.seq, charging the tax broadly defines “hotels” to include all forms of vacation ownership resorts which includes timeshares, and then has provisions expressly applicable to timeshares, including the one I mentioned above concerning agreements that Anaheim can enter into with timeshares for paying the tax. In other words, though it applies to "hotels," its definition of hotels is much broader than any normally understood common meaning of a hotel.
 
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Each year many points go to waste e.g. people don’t use them or forget to bank them or just have less than 10 pts and nothing to use them on
In the case of VDH Anaheim gets no tax income
In the case of VGC it automatically gets them

Makes you wonder if DVC made any attempt at negotiating a rate as appears to be in Anaheims favor to do so
 
Not arguing if it is legitimate or not - I believe that it is. I fully understand how a Transient Occupancy Tax is applicable to hotel stays, but how is a TOT applicable to a timeshare? Do we not own a small percentage of the property if we purchase points and it's not a "hotel" to us anymore? I see this akin to me and 11 other buddies buy into a house and each stay at the house for a month out of the year. I don't think I'd have to pay a TOT in that instance...or do I?

Apologies if this is a remedial question... Just wanted to understand this tax a bit more.
This was one of the theory's for "timeshare" when the schemes were set up. As they have evolved over time, and particularly as city, county and state governments saw timeshare stays eat into traditional hotel stays (and the associated tax revenue), they changed the tax rules to be sure any type of "short stay" accommodation could be levied with these sorts of transient occupancy taxes. Sadly, it has now become the norm rather than the exception. Hawaii is notoriously egregious in charging both very high TOT taxes for timeshare stays AND fiddling with property valuations to charge egregious property taxes on such "property" (knowing full well that timeshare owners don't/can't vote locally).
 
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The applicable city ordnance generally makes the 15% tax applicable to those staying at hotels and similar entities, including timeshares, and it is 15% of the rental price and applies to any stays of less than 30 days.

Found a loophole!
Just buy enough points to stay 31 days at a time, easy.
For example, to stay the whole month of December in a Grand Villa it's around 4500 points, or just a million and a half $$$. Imagine the money saved!
 
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Found a loophole!
Just buy enough points to stay 31 days at a time, easy.
For example, to stay the whole month of December in a Grand Villa it's around 4500 points, or just a million and a half $$$. Imagine the money saved!
Don’t have to imagine, it’s $12,285.

Heck of a deal!
 
Is your figure just the TOT saved ... ??? Will the TOT really be that high? Crazy.
Yea that would be the TOT on that amount of point spent, but since you're there longer than 30 days, you dont pay it!
 
This will be similar to the "tax" at AUL, right?

LAX
 
Out of curiosity, do subsidized AUL contracts pay the whole TOT for Hawaii? It’s supposed to be calculated as 1/2 of dues amount * (number of points) * .1325 (13.25%). Since sub Aul contracts technically pay less dues, do they calculate it off the lower number or the normal dues number?
 
Out of curiosity, do subsidized AUL contracts pay the whole TOT for Hawaii? It’s supposed to be calculated as 1/2 of dues amount * (number of points) * .1325 (13.25%). Since sub Aul contracts technically pay less dues, do they calculate it off the lower number or the normal dues number?
Subsidized Aulani contracts do not pay less in dues. The cost is just split 75/25 with Disney.

Calculations are all off the normal number.
 
Cities make a lot of money off of hotel taxes. They are not going to give timeshares a free ride
 



















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