Transgenders and bathrooms....

[Chocolate Cake]

I have. DD's HS was built in 1962 and has had very little renovation over the years. The sports locker room does not have any individual stalls, just a big open room with benches. One of the schools I went to had open showers. One of the older YMCAs in my town still has open showers. Not ever organization or school has the money to retrofit their facilities.

This is very true. My goodness. There are some schools in Detroit where teachers refuse to even come to work because they are so old and unsafe. These schools aren't putting in individual showers. They can't even fix leaking ceilings or buckled floors.


I am also thinking of the schools that have massive behavioral issues to begin with. Gangs, drugs, guns, etc. Any of those little thugs can give the finger to a teacher, wink and say “I am genderfluid. Today I identify as a girl” and march right into the girls’ locker room.


The teacher can’t do a thing about it. In fact, if the teacher attempts to stop them, it is the teacher that can be reprimanded. If that teenage boy says he identifies as a girl, no matter if he is faking or not, he will now have a right to go wherever he identifies as.


It is not transgender students that I worry about. I don’t worry about them one bit. I want them to feel safe and comfortable.


But, there are going to be some rotten kids out there that are going to have a great time with this “freedom to choose”.

 

[damskipi13]

I have. DD's HS was built in 1962 and has had very little renovation over the years. The sports locker room does not have any individual stalls, just a big open room with benches. One of the schools I went to had open showers. One of the older YMCAs in my town still has open showers. Not ever organization or school has the money to retrofit their facilities.

EMom was talking about people changing, not showering, so I was referring to people using the bathroom stalls to change. That's why I said bathroom stalls not shower stalls. My high school locker room had open showers, and as a result not a single girl ever showered. About halfway through my freshmen year they decided to shut off the water flow to those pipes because the water was stagnant in there.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

EMom was talking about people changing, not showering, so I was referring to people using the bathroom stalls to change. That's why I said bathroom stalls not shower stalls. My high school locker room had open showers, and as a result not a single girl ever showered. About halfway through my freshmen year they decided to shut off the water flow to those pipes because the water was stagnant in there.

I was also talking about changing not just showering. DD has to strip down to just undies in her locker room. She doesn't really like changing in front of people. She and the rest of the girls do the "butts out" method Emom described and keep their eyes down. There are no private stalls in her locker room space. Bathrooms are in another area accessed by leaving the locker room, going outside and into another building, not part of the locker room where all her equipment and uniforms are.

 

[damskipi13]

I was also talking about changing not just showering. DD has to strip down to just undies in her locker room. She doesn't really like changing in front of people. She and the rest of the girls do the "butts out" method Emom described and keep their eyes down. There are no private stalls in her locker room space. Bathrooms are in another area accessed by leaving the locker room, going outside and into another building, not part of the locker room where all her equipment and uniforms are.

Wow. Someone wasn't thinking that one through when they built it. Did they not notice that teenagers mock each other about their bodies? Or that people are shy?

 

[Chocolate Cake]

Wow. Someone wasn't thinking that one through when they built it. Did they not notice that teenagers mock each other about their bodies? Or that people are shy?

Many kids in USA attend very old and run down schools. Schools that were built 40, 50 , 60+ years ago. No thought was given to students or their needs or feelings.

It's sad because since we are on a Disney Forum, for the most part we have at least money for things like vacations/travel. We might not all be wealthy, but our children don't go to schools that are falling down. There are many prisons that are nicer than some schools out there.

 

[damskipi13]

Many kids in USA attend very old and run down schools. Schools that were built 40, 50 , 60+ years ago. No thought was given to students or their needs or feelings.

It's sad because since we are on a Disney Forum, for the most part we have at least money for things like vacations/travel. We might not all be wealthy, but our children don't go to schools that are falling down. There are many prisons that are nicer than some schools out there.

My school was definitely old and run down, but we had bathroom stalls in the locker room. They tore it down a few years ago and built a new school in its place. There go all of my memories...

 

[Kimberlyann11]

Lol!!! I really, truly wish I had the energy to respond to all the posts using my iPhone.

That said, I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer here. Some here want to call people bigots because they have a different viewpoint. That's too bad. All viewpoints should be tolerated and respectfully listened to... And than accepted as that persons opinion. Too many here come across as the final decision maker.

Tolerance IS a two way street, but it's said many don't realize that.

I'm out, as I truly have better things to do than read through 10 pages of posts and respond after a long days work.

MG

So there is not such thing as a bigot in your world. That nice little David Duke fellow and his social club are just a bunch of cool guys with a different viewpoint. They aren't bigots, they just have opinions.

That's an interesting way to rid the world of bigotry.

 

[IndyRnRfan]

All middle schools and high schools where I live have open showers, no individual stalls except in the bathroom. High school boys don't really care, they walk around naked, take showers, whatever. Can't speak for girls obviously. Middle schools are a little less open. Most don't shower from what I know although a few will use the showers. The MS I taught at only had 1 stall in the bathroom so changing in there wasn't an option so boys had no choice but to change in the open. Girls only had 2 stalls and they weren't allowed to change in there either so they had to change in the locker room too.

I also agree, I don't have an issue with the transgender kids, it's the ones who will use it to there advantage to get into the other one.

 

[luvsJack]

Our high school is over 100 years old and the current gym built in the late 50's. The locker rooms originally didn't have stalls. They came in with plywood and stuck some up and painted them. Cost almost nothing. Showers never were used. Not sure they are even still there.

Dd did showchoir for several years. They had to change dresses mid show. They had to run off stage, drop the dress and put the other on.

I honestly think everyone needs to stop and think about what is stopping boys from going in the locker room or bathrooms before all this? So many are worried that they are going to suddenly say they are trans to get in there. If they are that brave, whats keeping them out now?

And if a transgender male to female comes in there she is a girl in the girls locker room and not there to sneak a peek.

While out shopping today dd and I saw an employee at the Mac makeup counter that is transgender. Maybe not completely changed to female but on her way. I couldn't help but think "how safe would she be in the men's room?"

 

[goofyernmost]

This addresses that situation:

Schools have a responsibility to provide a safe and nondiscriminatory environment for all students, including transgender students. Harassment that targets a student based on gender identity, transgender status, or gender transition is harassment based on sex, and the Departments enforce Title IX accordingly. If sex-based harassment creates a hostile environment, the school must take prompt and effective steps to end the harassment, prevent its recurrence, and, as appropriate, remedy its effects.
​

If they allow individuals to opt out due to discomfort, that's well within the guidelines.

In many ways I think worrying too much about ogling or discomfort ignores the chance for a teaching opportunity. Heck, I've heard worries about gay people possible ogling in same-sex facilities. I think of it as just a bunch of hang ups.

I didn't have time to read this whole thread so it may have been said already. If so, sorry! The question that comes up is how is this enforced? If a transgender person (say male to female) enters a bathroom they are very likely to be dressed and present themselves as female. How is enforced? And why would a person that considers themselves to be female become a threat to other women anymore then a non-transgender person is a threat? Do we have to make everyone drop their pants to inspect their actual physical sex? What if you have some women, and I have seen many, that due to hormonal imbalance are very masculine looking... are they relegated to the men's room? A person that is gay or lesbian are still going to be using the respective rooms of their actual sex. They don't deny being one gender or the other, but, that their preference is male, if a male or female if they are female. Doesn't that make them more of a risk in the designated restroom of their birth sex?

Couldn't a male that wants to enter a ladies room, only need to look female to go there and how would that be known? How do we know it isn't happening all the time? Surely, they are not going to hang a sign around their neck saying... "Hey, I'm a man that wants to see all you ladies naked". Apparently born with x-ray vision to see through the metal toilet stalls.

I guess my point is that this whole thing is ridiculous. Law or no law, it isn't enforceable and only shows just how ignorant some of us alleged "rednecks" can be. In case you haven't guessed. I live in North Carolina. No I'm not trans-gender or gay. What I am is ashamed to tell people that I live in NC. If they tried they couldn't come up with a more nasty, useless law. Throwing away thousands of dollars to defend the worst legislation to ever be purposely enacted. Please don't judge all NC residents as being backward, uneducated bigots, some of us still have working brain cells.

 

[DLgal]

I also didn't read this whole thread, but I am just astonished that THIS is currently seen as the biggest "issue" facing public schools in America right now. Like there are NO other problems that need to be fixed????

S.M.D.H.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

So there is not such thing as a bigot in your world. That nice little David Duke fellow and his social club are just a bunch of cool guys with a different viewpoint. They aren't bigots, they just have opinions.

That's an interesting way to rid the world of bigotry.

Really? Really! You think that's what Maistre Gracey meant??!!!

 

[EMom]

But lots of parents are not teaching their kids right from wrong - there's way too much need for monitoring in the schools, at least the schools I've worked in. Gone are the days when you'd get in double trouble for getting in trouble at school - not only would there be a consequence at school, but your parents would discipline as well. Now, more often than not, the school gets blamed for the behavior, and the parents side with the kid, so the kid knows he can get away with pretty much anything short of murder. that's what my point was.



My daughter's dance company wore undergarments at all times - mostly unitards. No need to be naked. We also had a pop up changing room for a time, for when they had to change outside during an event.

All the locker rooms I've been in have multiple stalls, along with the stalls in the bathroom. Schools have more than one bathroom, at least all the high school ones I've been in, etc.

There are multiple solutions for each issue you've brought up. People just have to try them.



All the schools except one in our district have individual showers. The one that doesn't is very old.

I'm thrilled your daughter's dance company has found a way to change without having to strip completely. It doesn't work for my DD's group. It just doesn't.

 

[Kimberlyann11]

Really? Really! You think that's what Maistre Gracey meant??!!!

I can only go by what Maistre Gracey said. If Maistre Gracey meant something different, perhaps Maistre Gracey can pop in and elaborate.

 

[sunshinehighway]

So there is not such thing as a bigot in your world. That nice little David Duke fellow and his social club are just a bunch of cool guys with a different viewpoint. They aren't bigots, they just have opinions.

That's an interesting way to rid the world of bigotry.

Really? Really! You think that's what Maistre Gracey meant??!!!

Whether or not he mean it to go that far, it does apply.
That's one of the problems with the whole tolerant of intolerance argument. If you want to make the argument that people calling for tolerance must extend that to intolerant people and their actions, you can't pick and choose which intolerant people it extends to.
Of course another big problem with it is the whole argument is usually only used by someone wanting to discriminate against another group.
It's not the clever point to call out hypocrisy people who use it think it is. It's a distortion of what tolerance and intolerance really mean and how those words are many to be applied.

 

[mjkacmom]

Wow. Someone wasn't thinking that one through when they built it. Did they not notice that teenagers mock each other about their bodies? Or that people are shy?

Our middle and high school don't have private changing areas in the locker rooms, and I've never encountered ones that do. Is that a thing? 50 or so kids have 2 minutes to change, how does that work with changing rooms? We attend a lot of dance competitions held at schools, locker rooms have lockers and benches.

 

[damskipi13]

Our middle and high school don't have private changing areas in the locker rooms, and I've never encountered ones that do. Is that a thing? 50 or so kids have 2 minutes to change, how does that work with changing rooms? We attend a lot of dance competitions held at schools, locker rooms have lockers and benches.

Bathroom stalls, not dedicated changing areas. Go into the stall, take off your clothes, put on your new clothes, exit the stall.

ETA: I've been in dozens of locker rooms in my life and bathrooms stalls were never more than 20 steps from the lockers. I really don't understand why people keep questioning this.

 

[EMom]

Our middle and high school don't have private changing areas in the locker rooms, and I've never encountered ones that do. Is that a thing? 50 or so kids have 2 minutes to change, how does that work with changing rooms? We attend a lot of dance competitions held at schools, locker rooms have lockers and benches.

Very common. And would the new locker room rules apply to when the team travels to dance competitions at schools and hotels? For those, we typically are assigned a set of classrooms to change in if it is a school, so obviously there are no privacy stalls. Just a room. If it's a hotel, we get one big room. No privacy at all.

Lots of schools have locker/changing rooms that are just big open rooms with no stalls. Believe it or not. And there is no money to change that.

 

[EMom]

Bathroom stalls, not dedicated changing areas. Go into the stall, take off your clothes, put on your new clothes, exit the stall.

ETA: I've been in dozens of locker rooms in my life and bathrooms stalls were never more than 20 steps from the lockers. I really don't understand why people keep questioning this.

We don't all live in your world, apparently. Do the math. Between 35-50 girls change at once in DD's class. There are two bathroom stalls. TWO. They need to be used for actual bodily functions. Girls need to go to the bathroom and girls get their periods. There is often a line for those two stalls. Not to change, but to USE. That is their purpose.

 

[damskipi13]

We don't all live in your world, apparently. Do the math. Between 35-50 girls change at once in DD's class. There are two bathroom stalls. TWO. They need to be used for actual bodily functions. Girls need to go to the bathroom and girls get their periods. There is often a line for those two stalls. Not to change, but to USE. That is their purpose.

Yep...sounds just like my school. Somehow we managed. That's all I'm saying. My gym class was 60ish girls, and there were three stalls. It worked out.