Top of the World Lounge at Bay Lake Tower at Contemporary Resort - *2 New Parties Added! “Enchantment at the Top” & New “Bound to Be Bad” Dates Added

[Sandisw]

SanDisw was Toppolinos ever a perk?
Did Dvc ever take Toppolinos away?
Then why do you keep bringing it up it was never a perk so it's not the same as totwl . Nobody is asking to go to Toppolinos if you want to go make a reservation. Last time I check dvc did not care about resale restrictions until a few years ago and grandfather in those resale members. Now they just take away!

I have brought it up to highlight that this situation is exactly the same, regardless of whether one was a perk and one is not. But, Ill make this my last explanation about it.

Some believe that BLT owners, because TOTWL, is located at their home resort, should be eligible to go there, simply because of the fact that they are owners at that resort, and that no owner should be refused access to it.

As you said, if, I, as an owner of RIV, want to go to Toppolinos..which is located at my home resort, , I MUST make a reservation...even though I own there...the rules state I need a reservation to enter.

So, if a resale owner of BLT (or any resale owner) wants to go to TOTWL, then they must now have a "reservation", and that "reservation" is DVC Y on their card. Owning BLT or just resale points won't get you in.

So, while the process may be different, the outcome is the same. I’m being denied access to my home resort space and BLT owner is being blocked access to their home resort space.

It has nothing to do with what the access was over two years ago. It was closed and everyone lost access. Now, its reopening, under the control of DVD, and it has become part of membership extras, the perks program, which blocks resale owners.

Sorry to offend, but I am simple saying that plenty of DVC owners are restricted from using parts of their own resorts unless they meet the criteria for entry and now TOTWL is one of those spaces.

Where we agree is that DVD has decided since 2011 to slowly change the product...first it was no use of points for things like cruises, etc...most didn't care...then in 2016, they said no eligibility for membership extras...some didn't care...then in 2019, they decided no use of resale points at future resorts, starting with RIV...some dont care, but some do..

Now, in 2022, they moved TOTWL into membership extras, and some care more because they never realized access to it wasn't covered by dues. And, it is definitely something that has made people upset...and that is understandable.

ETA: And, I still believe that had DVD not made this move. TOTWL would have remained closed forever because it wasn't profitable enough for Disney to continue to run.

 

[Brian Noble]

surely they want take away my access to buy alcohol

Oh, you can, but you have to do it with the hoi polloi at the Outer Rim.

 

[hilltopper152]

Yeah I mostly get it but discounts is not the same as access. I think that's what's rubbing some the wrong way, that's the issue for me at least. SSR owners could still go to the turf club I presume?
I'll be honest with you, if they made totwl an open bar for blue card and cash bar for the rest in order to fund it, I'd be fine with that. At least there's a choice. There's just something about the whole "welcome home" thing but you're not welcome here.
I meant to ask this in response to Sandi but I forgot, if totwl was not profitable what the hell were they doing with it? Why were they restricting anyone from an unprofitable cash bar!? I guess people have said guests would just congregate and watch the fireworks and not buy anything? I'd much prefer drink/order minimums or reservations than restrictions but that's obviously because of my status. Was it always only open at night? Surprised they didn't use it for breakfast or quick service within the resort at other times. Strange not to be able to turn a profit with such a prime location.

All these other places, attic, reunion etc. is there anything special or distinguishing about them? The loss of Totwl bums me out over the views not the bar.

I honestly have little respect for leadership at DVC when it comes to creativity but they are showing signs of it. I think this idea is lazy but could work possibly.

QUICK SERVICE that doubles as a bar at BLT would be excellent. Contemporary does not support both resorts well enough in that regard and would imagine something like captain cooks (food wise) on BLT rooftop would be a hit and in the evening a portion can be reserved or bar service like what Poly has outside of Trader Sams. There could be a direct member rope off area like VIP but why not make revenue throughout the day? I think the kitchen is part of it but wish BLT had some sort of store or kisok onsite and maybe that would work well there. Even a coffee shop with limited hours.

Maybe they thought even if those were profitable they would not help them sell new contracts as we know that is more important in comparison to keeping current owners as happy. Even though I imagine current owners are big customers of adding points so why not focus on that too.

 

[jarestel]

"I don't want to do business with DVD but I expect them to offer me the same perks and benefits they offer their other customers." Just because!

 

[Sandisw]

I honestly have little respect for leadership at DVC when it comes to creativity but they are showing signs of it. I think this idea is lazy but could work possibly.

QUICK SERVICE that doubles as a bar at BLT would be excellent. Contemporary does not support both resorts well enough in that regard and would imagine something like captain cooks (food wise) on BLT rooftop would be a hit and in the evening a portion can be reserved or bar service like what Poly has outside of Trader Sams. There could be a direct member rope off area like VIP but why not make revenue throughout the day? I think the kitchen is part of it but wish BLT had some sort of store or kisok onsite and maybe that would work well there. Even a coffee shop with limited hours.

Maybe they thought even if those were profitable they would not help them sell new contracts as we know that is more important in comparison to keeping current owners as happy. Even though I imagine current owners are big customers of adding points so why not focus on that too.

I agree a Bigger issue with BLT to be full fledged QS is no kitchen to prepare meals to that magnitude

I heard that is one of the reasons why the food offerings are limited in nature was because the travel time from the kitchen at The Wave..was not necessarily short enough without risking food issues if done on a massive scale.

But it would definitely be nice to have a few more options at the resort without having to go to CR…not even involving DVD at all.

I think some of what you mention for special features could come. But most everything still involves Disney so even something as simple as a VIP section at Trader Sams would require them to say yes. And they don’t do that if it’s not going to benefit them

It’s why I wonder if we won’t see a TOTWL type members only spot at the Poly tower.

 

[Jenglish13]

I don't see DVC allowing loopholes to the Membership Magic restrictions. You're focused on TOTWL access for BLT owners but there are dozens of other examples which already exist.

SSR resale owners don't get dining discounts at The Turf Club. BWV owners don't get Surrey bike rental discounts on the BW. As noted in my prior post, CCV and BRV resale owners could not participate in animation classes or wine tastings at Reunion Station.

The appropriateness of it is neither here nor there. I simply don't envision a scenario where DVC creates this wide-ranging series of exceptions where non-qualifying resale owners have access to perks at their Home resort while being blocked from others.

You are right though, it would be a loophole or grandfathering or whatever. I don't see what's so terrible about doing that for BLT owners, but I get what you and sandisw are saying it's not in DVDs interest. Their interest is in direct opposition to resale owners. I'm still wrapping my mind around that, it's a rather strange circumstance. I feel like many of you are so well versed in this sort of bureaucracy of DVC that when they do something like this it makes more intuitive sense to you whereas I'm coming from a more simple outsider straightforward common sense approach, like cool there's a rooftop bar at the timeshare I'm buying and we can go up there whenever we want. Oh, wait now we can't go there any more all of a sudden because we didn't buy the timeshare directly from the developer? ***!
It's also kind of odd as it seems to be the first time a resort space (not event, but space I think that distinction is important) was offered to one class of member and not the other. I suppose we should get used to that. But it will likely sow more division and controversy. I'm relieved that everything else we currently have is safe as I understand. It's a strange inherent tension between offering loyal customer satisfaction and feeding an insatiable appetite for new sales.

Are there actual people that buy BLT direct at $265 (and if yes and you're here I swear I'm not trying to offend!) or is that more of a symbolic way to say DVD is not interested in selling BLT for whatever reason? Another irony that the first removal of a perk is within a resort they're not even trying to sell direct! If I want to go to totwl at BLT I have to buy direct for a resort in Hawaii!! ***! And why does DVD care what they sell? Why do they want to sell new resorts vs ROFR'd contracts of older resorts? Why isn't inventory just inventory? Do they just want to retain points to sell studio reservations for over $1,000 per night to the uninitiated? I'm sorry guys I'm fascinated and have a lot of questions, lol!

 

[pianomanzano]

Oh, you can, but you have to do it with the hoi polloi at the Outer Rim.

 

[Jenglish13]

I will be there with you or handing $10 to the couple that let's my family slide up as guest just so I can see the top of "my" building. Yeah most exclusive places I can still go with a reservation but here I simply cannot go unless that party thing I guess. In fact that may be what I do one time so I don't have to buy direct to check it off my list but probably not because I am too salty to hand that money over. BLT shows photos and ads highlighting the top.floor views so it feels like it is the selling point along with walking distance so that is why it feels like such a big deal to me. Yes there is room categories I can upgrade to but it will never not feel petty even if I understand the reason.

Unless I'm not understanding we can't even go as guests of blue card members unless we are staying in their room on their reservation!! And they can only go up once per day, I think. At least they really thought this through. Don't worry, you and I will get some popcorn and enjoy the show of watching CMs explain and enforce this policy. I say we send our children each day to get rebuffed and told to fork over $30k+ if they want to go up there!

If we go at the same time we can flip a coin to see who splurges for a room with a view and we can have our own pity party! At least the views and drinks will be affordable! Unfortunately we will have to have to enforce a strict policy though, no blue cards allowed.

 

[Jenglish13]

I have brought it up to highlight that this situation is exactly the same, regardless of whether one was a perk and one is not. But, Ill make this my last explanation about it.

Some believe that BLT owners, because TOTWL, is located at their home resort, should be eligible to go there, simply because of the fact that they are owners at that resort, and that no owner should be refused access to it.

As you said, if, I, as an owner of RIV, want to go to Toppolinos..which is located at my home resort, , I MUST make a reservation...even though I own there...the rules state I need a reservation to enter.

So, if a resale owner of BLT (or any resale owner) wants to go to TOTWL, then they must now have a "reservation", and that "reservation" is DVC Y on their card. Owning BLT or just resale points won't get you in.

So, while the process may be different, the outcome is the same. I’m being denied access to my home resort space and BLT owner is being blocked access to their home resort space.

It has nothing to do with what the access was over two years ago. It was closed and everyone lost access. Now, its reopening, under the control of DVD, and it has become part of membership extras, the perks program, which blocks resale owners.

Sorry to offend, but I am simple saying that plenty of DVC owners are restricted from using parts of their own resorts unless they meet the criteria for entry and now TOTWL is one of those spaces.

Where we agree is that DVD has decided since 2011 to slowly change the product...first it was no use of points for things like cruises, etc...most didn't care...then in 2016, they said no eligibility for membership extras...some didn't care...then in 2019, they decided no use of resale points at future resorts, starting with RIV...some dont care, but some do..

Now, in 2022, they moved TOTWL into membership extras, and some care more because they never realized access to it wasn't covered by dues. And, it is definitely something that has made people upset...and that is understandable.

ETA: And, I still believe that had DVD not made this move. TOTWL would have remained closed forever because it wasn't profitable enough for Disney to continue to run.

But none of these other examples have the same division of blue card allowed, non blue card not allowed, correct?

Or can blue card members just wander up to toppolino and hang around?

 

[tjkraz]

It's also kind of odd as it seems to be the first time a resort space (not event, but space I think that distinction is important) was offered to one class of member and not the other. I suppose we should get used to that.

There is perhaps one other similar situation of something being "taken away." If memory serves, DVC got more restrictive about point and member eligibility for the exclusive member cruises. I don't remember all of the details but there was some commotion about 5 years ago when people discovered that they wouldn't be able to book the cruise and/or couldn't use the points they wanted to.

But the lounge status is certainly more straightforward.

If we want to dig into how the sausage is made, the lounge was previously operated by Disney food & beverage who had a vested interest in its P&L. Whatever the terms of the deal were between food & beverage and DVC, the lounge was omitted from the perk restrictions that began in 2016. It may be as simple as F&B wanting as many potential customers as possible. Maybe both parties never bothered to revisit that agreement.

Regardless, the pandemic gave parties an opportunity to talk. And it now appears that the lounge is subsidized by DVC marketing with P&L being much less of a concern.

But it will likely sow more division and controversy. I'm relieved that everything else we currently have is safe as I understand. It's a strange inherent tension between offering loyal customer satisfaction and feeding an insatiable appetite for new sales.

It's a tough situation because direct buyers (justifiably) expect something extra for the money they spent. At risk of sounding like a DVC sycophant, there's some logic in buying at least 150 points direct even if it costs a few thousand dollars extra. Especially for people who are all-in on Disney and fully expect to hold the points for 20+ years. Given today's rates, one set of Sorcerer passes for my family of 4 cost $1600 less than the general public Incredipass. Using 3 or 4 years worth of DVC points for trips that are staggered under a single set of APs is one of the most economical forms of park admission.

(Your particular status as BLT-or-bust would admittedly have made that a very expensive upsell. But I think that mindset is fairly rare among buyers. I still stand by the idea that multi resort ownership is wise for anyone buying so many points. Get back to me in 5 or 10 years and let me know if you're still staying at BLT every single time you visit. But for the moment, that's water under the bridge. )

I realize you're single-mindedly focused on the lounge. But now that its status has changed, I don't see DVC making a random exception for BLT resale owners even though it's literally an elevator ride away. In some small way, that defeats the purpose of having resale restrictions in the first place if buyers know that BLT points still get them a little something extra.

 

[hilltopper152]

Unless I'm not understanding we can't even go as guests of blue card members unless we are staying in their room on their reservation!! And they can only go up once per day, I think. At least they really thought this through. Don't worry, you and I will get some popcorn and enjoy the show of watching CMs explain and enforce this policy. I say we send our children each day to get rebuffed and told to fork over $30k+ if they want to go up there!

If we go at the same time we can flip a coin to see who splurges for a room with a view and we can have our own pity party! At least the views and drinks will be affordable! Unfortunately we will have to have to enforce a strict policy though, no blue cards allowed.

May not be a bad plan at all. I say white card members go take over the hot tub and ping pong table. Try to take claim there. Or maybe the beach so we have the best view for electrical water show. Forgot name ha

 

[Sandisw]

But none of these other examples have the same division of blue card allowed, non blue card not allowed, correct?

Or can blue card members just wander up to toppolino and hang around?

I think you have to get past access as blue card vs white card because the spaces are not part of DVC except being physically located at a DVC resort

Both are commercial spaces. Put another way, had TOTWL been open to the public from the start, closed, and now come back as a DVC only space, I bet it wouldn’t bother people…People aren’t bothered about the Epcot lounge because it never was open to all.

When I inquired a few years back, I was told there was nothing to prevent Disney from allowing cash guests into TOTWL before it closed. They had the right to make it open to the general public but they never did that.

But I was trying to illustrate that all DVC resorts have spots that prevent owners from freely having access to them simply because they are owners, whether it a restaurant, spa, etc.

 

[hilltopper152]

In some small way, that defeats the purpose of having resale restrictions in the first place if buyers know that BLT points still get them a little something extra.

Yeah the idea to create a superior access level is great. I think flipping contracts back to direct rather than forcing themselves to develop from scratch new resorts is the plan for a while and this allows them to create fomo. It works and people like to feel special even if we don't admit it. I think lounges... Especially in park lounges are big selling points. Events are probably less important to most out of state members I would imagine.
By big selling points, I mean they create substance and superiority. You know you are buying the top thing and that alone sells. Cars do this by charging for trim levels that hardly upgrade but they seem huge when on the lot.

 

[Liquidice]

All this talk of lounges at BLT, BWV and WL - I want 3 more lounges one in each of the 3 parks that don't have a DVC Members lounge

Say what you will about the Epcot lounge, but imho it is better than TOTWL. When I'm already in BLT, I just want to go to my room to relax. When it is hot out and I'm tired and need a break in Epcot - the lounge is a welcome place to rest and relax for an hour.

I'm not expecting that to happen anytime soon (unless maybe this Diamond tier can generate enough funds to pay for them) - but one could wish!

 

[Jenglish13]

May not be a bad plan at all. I say white card members go take over the hot tub and ping pong table. Try to take claim there. Or maybe the beach so we have the best view for electrical water show. Forgot name ha

That's hysterical. No lounge? fine then we'll just hog the ping pong tables! I don't even know what you're talking about because I haven't even been there yet but yeah I'll be there, I suppose we don't have anywhere else to go anyway now! We can still try the Jedi mind tricks and batman grappling hooks too if you're game. You're not afraid of heights are you?

 

[hilltopper152]

That's hysterical. No lounge? fine then we'll just hog the ping pong tables! I don't even know what you're talking about because I haven't even been there yet but yeah I'll be there, I suppose we don't have anywhere else to go anyway now! We can still try the Jedi mind tricks and batman grappling hooks too if you're game. You're not afraid of heights are you?

Ha you will see them in the courtyard. We have enjoyed them in the past and it's never busy there. Heights aren't my thing but I am determined. I really do hope you enjoy your first trip there. We like it always for various reasons but always split stay somewhere. Next time I go will be my first time I do not include my home resort probably (nothing to do with this)... Just want to finally see what this AKL is all about and try those new villas at GF

 

[Jenglish13]

There is perhaps one other similar situation of something being "taken away." If memory serves, DVC got more restrictive about point and member eligibility for the exclusive member cruises. I don't remember all of the details but there was some commotion about 5 years ago when people discovered that they wouldn't be able to book the cruise and/or couldn't use the points they wanted to.

But the lounge status is certainly more straightforward.

If we want to dig into how the sausage is made, the lounge was previously operated by Disney food & beverage who had a vested interest in its P&L. Whatever the terms of the deal were between food & beverage and DVC, the lounge was omitted from the perk restrictions that began in 2016. It may be as simple as F&B wanting as many potential customers as possible. Maybe both parties never bothered to revisit that agreement.

Regardless, the pandemic gave parties an opportunity to talk. And it now appears that the lounge is subsidized by DVC marketing with P&L being much less of a concern.


It's a tough situation because direct buyers (justifiably) expect something extra for the money they spent. At risk of sounding like a DVC sycophant, there's some logic in buying at least 150 points direct even if it costs a few thousand dollars extra. Especially for people who are all-in on Disney and fully expect to hold the points for 20+ years. Given today's rates, one set of Sorcerer passes for my family of 4 cost $1600 less than the general public Incredipass. Using 3 or 4 years worth of DVC points for trips that are staggered under a single set of APs is one of the most economical forms of park admission.

(Your particular status as BLT-or-bust would admittedly have made that a very expensive upsell. But I think that mindset is fairly rare among buyers. I still stand by the idea that multi resort ownership is wise for anyone buying so many points. Get back to me in 5 or 10 years and let me know if you're still staying at BLT every single time you visit. But for the moment, that's water under the bridge. )

I realize you're single-mindedly focused on the lounge. But now that its status has changed, I don't see DVC making a random exception for BLT resale owners even though it's literally an elevator ride away. In some small way, that defeats the purpose of having resale restrictions in the first place if buyers know that BLT points still get them a little something extra.

Yes, I blame my wife for our BLT or bust stance. But really none of the 3 resorts I liked have incentives and are just objectively over priced direct. I really wish VGF was our thing, that seems like a fairly reasonable proposition vis a vis resale. Of all the research I did though, home resort preference seemed important to get the 11 month availability. I also came upon resale before even knowing about direct option too, (yet another way I'm likely an outlier probably) obvious once I saw direct pricing I just skipped past and didn't give it a second thought.

At the end of the day I don't regret my decision. I'm looking forward to BLT and the short walk to MK with my kids. Totwl would have been a nice cherry on top but I guess I can just go play ping pong with hilltopper instead, he seems cool.
You and sandisw have really helped explain it all, (what a rabbit hole it's been!) I don't agree with the tactics and I don't like it, but I understand it now and that helps to deal with the disappointment.

 

[Jenglish13]

Ha you will see them in the courtyard. We have enjoyed them in the past and it's never busy there. Heights aren't my thing but I am determined. I really do hope you enjoy your first trip there. We like it always for various reasons but always split stay somewhere. Next time I go will be my first time I do not include my home resort probably (nothing to do with this)... Just want to finally see what this AKL is all about and try those new villas at GF

Cool, enjoy. I'm going to AKL in December for first trip. I rented points, couldn't wait for my ROFR, and closing, and point loading. I've been promising my daughter a trip since right before covid hit. Couldn't put it off any longer! So I'll bank my points and start off double points 2023.

 

[Jenglish13]

All this talk of lounges at BLT, BWV and WL - I want 3 more lounges one in each of the 3 parks that don't have a DVC Members lounge

Say what you will about the Epcot lounge, but imho it is better than TOTWL. When I'm already in BLT, I just want to go to my room to relax. When it is hot out and I'm tired and need a break in Epcot - the lounge is a welcome place to rest and relax for an hour.

I'm not expecting that to happen anytime soon (unless maybe this Diamond tier can generate enough funds to pay for them) - but one could wish!

I'm starting to think these blue card members have a drinking problem!!

 

[hilltopper152]

I'm starting to think these blue card members have a drinking problem!!

Ha well I don't think lounges in park sell alcohol but that would be funny to see a bunch of parents throwing drinks back mid day with the family but I mean Epcot sure loves that idea with the festivals to be fair.