Today Show....School supply list

[CrazyDuck]

I saw a blip about it on the Today show, and laughed when they mentioned a school in Honolulu was asking for toilet paper. I wish they said which school, ours doesn't!

It's Pauoa Elementary School, near Punchbowl.

 

[BoogasMom]

Our school's PTA also has a separate fund for kids that don't send in the necessary supplies. It's a specific fundraiser we do every year and all the money goes to that specifically. Some teachers use it, others don't.

We have parents that complain about that fund, they don't want to pay for some other child's supplies/field trips/winter coats. I just hope they never find themselves in a similar situation and that people do not have long term memories...........

I agree completely.

 

[azdizzymom]

Schools are hurting budget wise.
Teachers are hurting.
Families are hurting.
Governments are cutting budgets for schools and taxes are going up.

What will not change....people who whine and complain that they shouldn't have to pay for certain supplies or assist in sending in food for parties, etc.
Thankfully my children are out of elementary but in middle and high school we still have supplies. In mid-July I start watching ads...hit Staples, Walmart, etc. I stock up on stuff....about 3 years ago I bought the 5cenet notebooks at Walmart...I bought the limit a few times so I had probably 20 left after this time...my boys prefer other ones so I donated the items I had bought for pennies or FAR to "stuff the bus" to assist students.

Never once did I have the thought "I am better" and shouldn't assist those who can't afford. What if I was in that position? What if a dear friend was in that position?

I substitute at my elementary school. I see teacher spend so much of their money on supplies it is sad. NEVER ONCE do they complain. I was always a room parent and helped plan parties....every year the teachers would ask me and I would say yes. I know they new after son #1 went through that I would work my rear off helping and not complain once. I sent note after note after note home asking for donations (ONE BAG OF CANDY for example) for the fall harvest party or the Valentine's party. You can buy a bag (might take two depending on the number of kids in class) at the DOLLAR STORE...two bags would be $2! Skip the Starbucks for a day...brown bag it. It was always the same parents sending stuff in...I spend $100's literally over the 6 years times two boys during elementary...did I ever NOT think about sending stuff in...YES but did I ...YES cause it is not fair to EXPECT everyone to send stuff in for YOUR child and not send in even a small thing. Yes, there are some cases where money is really an issue and items can't be sent in.

My 8th grader has to have 2 boxes of tissues...will he ever use 2 boxes NO but oh well I will send them in. If the classes run out in the middle of year cause someone sends their sick kid to school or the kids like to get up and 'pretend' to wipe noses and waste tissues will I NOT send in a box...NOPE I will send in another one and not the scratchy generic one... a nice box of Kleenex. I watch for sales....we don't really have the extra money but we can't expect others to take responsibility for our kids. We have to assist the teachers so IF THEY SPEND THEIR OWN MONEY ON OUR KIDS IT IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES AND NOT FOR KLEENEX, BLEACH, HAND SANITIZER, ETC. If we can send in a minimum of that....then the teachers can spend the little money they do get from PTA etc. on teaching and not cleaning up kids.

Think the money is helping the kids...we as adults can cut back on lunch out, that extra coffee, etc. Our kids are the future. Don't expect someone else to take care of your child...open your eyes and see that we all need to step up. From my subbing and room parenting it seems the ones who complain about the teacher, their child not getting enough candy or not having a good party are the ones who are not involved in their child's education. They expect everyone to do everything for them and their child.

Watch for sales and send in stuff through year...get FAR items and give to teacher. EVERYTHING helps...and it helps kids. Don't say I already pay high taxes...well IT ALL DOESN'T GO TO THE SCHOOLS! AND WHY SHOULD THE TEACHERS HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR CHILD OUT OF THEIR POCKET WHEN THEY PROBABLY HAVE TO SEND IN THE SAME EXTRA SUPPLIES YOU DO!

Sorry for the rant....annoyed that people whine about sending stuff in.

 

[daisy2jae]

we spent apx $50 for a preschooler, K, and 5th grader this year for supplies. I didn't think that was too bad. I also grab a few extra supplies at Walmart and give them to the teachers. They can use them in their class rooms or give them to the office for a student who is short supplies. I didn't spend much $20 apx. for extra supplies. However that did pick up (in my opinion) lots of extra little things (glue, markers, scissors, etc) All the supplies we're asked to pick up are things the kids use personally in the classroom. Nothing strange. I'll also grab extra tissues or sanitizer through the year as I have room in the budget and send it to school. After all it's my children and I don't expect others to take care of it. I've never been in a situation that I can't afford it. (Money is tight due to DH's cancer but not that we couldn't afford things).

Our community has a program through the food pantry. If you hve EBT (food stamps) families can sign up for back to school supplies. Through out July/Aug the community and businesses donate items. Then the ladies at the pantry put together the bags for local kids. That helps families who can't afford the supplies and keeps the teachers from having to buy them. (Teachers still buy other things...) Maybe this is something a local youth club or church could do in your area. Wouldn't have to be the same but in our community it's amazing how people come together and help each other when we ask for the help. This is a good program to donate to.

Our community doesn't have as bad of budget issues as others. We did have one school who didn't meet "No Child Left Behind". However they are struggling keeping kids enrolled as parents are pulling kids from there and moving them to the other schools in town.


I know some (not all) parents don't believe in giving teachers gift at xmas but at xmas we buy FFA fruit and put together fruit baskets for the teachers along with a $10 gift card to walmart or dollar tree. The FFA fruit is a fund raiser a local high school group does. We're helping them raise money and putting together xmas gifts. Plus the kids love finding a basket at rummage sales then making up their own baskets for their teacher.

 

[patsal]

I know finding a teaching position is hard, but if I was paying 1/4 of my own salary in order to be prepared to teach my class every year I'd be looking in another district. I mean if you take home even 30K, thats $7500 a year

Exactly, wonder why teacher turn over especially with new teachers is so high? I would not be able to do this if my salary was the only one we had, or if that rate was constant.

 

[Beckypooh1972]

I've asked students for tissues - our school supplies them but they are thinner and coarser than even the cheap ones they give you in the hospital. When sinus infections went through with H1N1 last year the kids complained about the tissues - I told them, if you want guaranteed soft tissues, BYOT.

As for detergent.... well, that is what really caught my attention in this thread. I can guess that many, many people here have no experience with a poor, urban school setting... but I immediately thought of the last building I was at prior to this one. 95% free and reduced lunch, started K-5 and wound up K-8. We had children with a LOT of social problems, lack of hygiene, bedwetting problems (likely due to abuse), etc. Poor kids whose parents bought them only one or two uniforms because, since the clothes all looked the same, they figured the kids could wear a few times before washing. Let me tell you, a 10 year old elementary student in a PE class starting her cycle with no gym clothes, no deodorant, and no clean feminine products NEEDS some washing done. Should they do it themselves? Yep. Should their parents? You bet. But if they don't, what were we as a staff supposed to do? Do we let them sit there in their own stink day after day?

Just some food for thought. I didn't see the Today show reference but I'm going to guess it was a school with some pretty needy kids.

I was one of those kids growing up who always had a runny nose and brought my own tissues. And I'll never forget having to sit next to stinky Eddie Green in 1st grade - I'm sure it never occurred to the staff to ask Eddie if he would like someone to wash his clothes for him. I always just thought Eddie didn't like taking baths.

Parents and kids need to take responsibility for themselves. I think it's really compassionate of teachers to spend their own money. I just wonder how it benefits a needy student's character to have everything supplied to him. As a kid who often went "without" I think I'm more appreciative of what I have now.

Today, most little budding artists will never know the thrill of scraping together enough change to buy their own poster board to make anything they wanted out of it.

I can't believe I'm saying it but "geez, these kids today."

 

[LizinSTL]

They are doing a story today on the school supply issue. Schools are asking for toliet paper, bleach, laundry detergent and a host of other stuff.

I have noticed that a bunch of people on this board have issues with the school list. It seems that it is an issue that is going on across the country.

I don't have kids but considering doing some sort of donation to a school some supplies. Money for paper towels or dry erase markers won't break my budget but could make a difference to some kids or teachers.

I saw that piece...crazy.

Thanks for considering the donation...
you can also check out www.donorschoose.org and see if any of your local teachers are looking for stuff. I love that site and am slightly addicted to giving on it!

Our classroom has a couple projects listed now and we rely on generous people to help complete the projects.

 

[LizinSTL]

I had a family member working in the school (custodial) and at the end of the year I was AMAZED at all the stuff the teachers threw away that was either left in the classroom or they were moving classrooms/schools and didn't want to mess with moving/packing. I'm talking unused boxes of EVERYTHING from markers, crayons to paper plates, dry erase markers, brand new folders and paper....etc.

Ha! We stood in the hall during locker cleanout last May and grabbed the stuff out of the trash can that kids were tossing. Full packs of filler paper, pens, pencils, highlighters, binders, novels, etc. We repurposed so much, cleaned it up and have been passing it out for the last 2 days. I've never seen teachers throw away perfectly good materials. Heck before school started, my 8th grader checked all of our markers and crayons and only tossed the ones that didn't work or were too broken.

 

[LizinSTL]

I am a Pre-K teacher and the way it works for film in our school is they have a camera and you can get pictures printed out about every 3 or 4 months. Another option is to pay for them ourselves and turn in a receipt along with a picture of the pictures we took to ensure our pictures are necessary. Then we may get reimbursed in 8-10 weeks. I like to take pictures of my kids all throughout the year and then send it home at the end of the year to the parents as a book of their year.


Today I posted my request list on our door of some supplies for future projects, I requested;

dryer lint
old small puzzles with missing pieces
cinnamon
fruit styrofoam plates
small glass jars
bubble wands


It is an interesting list but I find I get more of a response asking parents to bring in these items and then working with what I have. Oh and in case you are wondering, the dryer lint is for playdough

I'd love that dryer lint playdough recipe.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I was one of those kids growing up who always had a runny nose and brought my own tissues. And I'll never forget having to sit next to stinky Eddie Green in 1st grade - I'm sure it never occurred to the staff to ask Eddie if he would like someone to wash his clothes for him. I always just thought Eddie didn't like taking baths.

Parents and kids need to take responsibility for themselves. I think it's really compassionate of teachers to spend their own money. I just wonder how it benefits a needy student's character to have everything supplied to him. As a kid who often went "without" I think I'm more appreciative of what I have now.

Today, most little budding artists will never know the thrill of scraping together enough change to buy their own poster board to make anything they wanted out of it.

I can't believe I'm saying it but "geez, these kids today."

OMGosh. You really think Eddie is going to gain in character by sitting is his own stench with no supplies? "geez, these adults today."

 

[Janet Hill]

Our school's PTA also has a separate fund for kids that don't send in the necessary supplies. It's a specific fundraiser we do every year and all the money goes to that specifically. Some teachers use it, others don't.

We have parents that complain about that fund, they don't want to pay for some other child's supplies/field trips/winter coats. I just hope they never find themselves in a similar situation and that people do not have long term memories...........

When my child (has aspergers) started school, I was an active participant in our school's care and share program, and thought it was wonderful. Started feeling less wonderful about it when at about grade 2 these were the same kids that mercilessly taunted and bullied my child until we finally had to remove him from the school and put him in a private school.

It was also a child who benefitted a lot from this "share and care" program that stole my son's cell phone (he had it so he could call in case of emergency, school was less than diligent about protecting him).

So I choose that my extra $ are shared with appreciative folks who if the tables were turned would also be there for me or others. Not the public school thugs looking for a handout.

My daughter still attends this school and I do not send in all the items on the school supply list, she takes what she needs for personal consumption. I will also send in tissues because she is probably one of the biggest consumers of these.

Besides how can afford the extras now that I pay twice for my son's education (tax $ and private school tuition).

 

[patsal]

OMGosh. You really think Eddie is going to gain in character by sitting is his own stench with no supplies? "geez, these adults today."

No,I don't think that is what she meant. I took it more like, we already pay very high taxes to take care of "Eddie". His parents let's say for arguement get welfare, food stamps, supplelmental stuff like heating assistance, subsidized housing to control rent cost, free child care, and all the extra provisions that come along. He gets free breakfast and free lunch, he doesn't pay for things like SAT or ACT testing because he gets a hardship waiver. His parents are already getting the things they need to take care of him, the school should not be washing his clothes for him. We have one of those pack a backpack programs around here, he qualifies for that, and to top it off the governor usually approves a $250 back to school stipend for each underprivledged kid. My take was we are already giving you plenty to help you get a leg up, why is anything further needed? If a person is collecting all of the hlep they can and not using it to help the child then how much more as society are we expected to take on.

Raising my own family is expensive, I do not want "Eddie" to be filthy--hey I'm a teacher, I have bought the "Eddie's" shirts and ties for picture day--don't want him to stand out and feel awkward, I have replaced sneekers that have been so worn that the kids feet are showing through and it is winter, I have bought socks, because the kids smells bad, I have bought toioletries for the same reason. I have involved the counselors and CPS has been called, they are too busy and he isn't being beaten or starved. I intervene as much as I can but the thousands I spend per year should have been put into my own children's college accounts, because now I am scrimping to help my own child and no one is going to help me!

My children will have the character that hard work brings, but the "Eddie's " I have spent so much time and effort on --I wish I could say they they all grew up to be responsible and have great careers--they have families of their own, repeating the same cycle; are incarcerated; dead from drug overdoses, bad racing car crashes, and drunk driving. A few are scrimping to get by, but their families drag them down every chance they get. While I don't pretend to know the answer, giving them more and taking responsibility for themselves away from them is not the answer.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

It is not Eddie's fault that his parents are scum. It is the better things and actions in life that give an Eddie the very small chance of not repeating the cycle. And there is vast statistical evidence to back that up.

So, while I do appreciate the efforts you make for these kids as a teacher, I do not see how having a child dripping snot all over the place because his parents don't send supplies or requiring the teacher to provide them so that she/he doesn't have a classroom full of snotty noses to be unacceptable. If people can't share the basics in life they are no better character wise than Eddie's parents. IMO.

 

[Purseval]

Exactly, wonder why teacher turn over especially with new teachers is so high? I would not be able to do this if my salary was the only one we had, or if that rate was constant.

You may also remember that nobody is forcing you or any other teacher to take the job. I'm sure the private sector would love to add knowledgable, degreed staff to their workforce.

 

[Kate and Pete]

As a teacher who is thinking about what she needs for her high school English classroom two weeks from now, I thank you.

Schools are hurting budget wise.
Teachers are hurting.
Families are hurting.
Governments are cutting budgets for schools and taxes are going up.

What will not change....people who whine and complain that they shouldn't have to pay for certain supplies or assist in sending in food for parties, etc.
Thankfully my children are out of elementary but in middle and high school we still have supplies. In mid-July I start watching ads...hit Staples, Walmart, etc. I stock up on stuff....about 3 years ago I bought the 5cenet notebooks at Walmart...I bought the limit a few times so I had probably 20 left after this time...my boys prefer other ones so I donated the items I had bought for pennies or FAR to "stuff the bus" to assist students.

Never once did I have the thought "I am better" and shouldn't assist those who can't afford. What if I was in that position? What if a dear friend was in that position?

I substitute at my elementary school. I see teacher spend so much of their money on supplies it is sad. NEVER ONCE do they complain. I was always a room parent and helped plan parties....every year the teachers would ask me and I would say yes. I know they new after son #1 went through that I would work my rear off helping and not complain once. I sent note after note after note home asking for donations (ONE BAG OF CANDY for example) for the fall harvest party or the Valentine's party. You can buy a bag (might take two depending on the number of kids in class) at the DOLLAR STORE...two bags would be $2! Skip the Starbucks for a day...brown bag it. It was always the same parents sending stuff in...I spend $100's literally over the 6 years times two boys during elementary...did I ever NOT think about sending stuff in...YES but did I ...YES cause it is not fair to EXPECT everyone to send stuff in for YOUR child and not send in even a small thing. Yes, there are some cases where money is really an issue and items can't be sent in.

My 8th grader has to have 2 boxes of tissues...will he ever use 2 boxes NO but oh well I will send them in. If the classes run out in the middle of year cause someone sends their sick kid to school or the kids like to get up and 'pretend' to wipe noses and waste tissues will I NOT send in a box...NOPE I will send in another one and not the scratchy generic one... a nice box of Kleenex. I watch for sales....we don't really have the extra money but we can't expect others to take responsibility for our kids. We have to assist the teachers so IF THEY SPEND THEIR OWN MONEY ON OUR KIDS IT IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES AND NOT FOR KLEENEX, BLEACH, HAND SANITIZER, ETC. If we can send in a minimum of that....then the teachers can spend the little money they do get from PTA etc. on teaching and not cleaning up kids.

Think the money is helping the kids...we as adults can cut back on lunch out, that extra coffee, etc. Our kids are the future. Don't expect someone else to take care of your child...open your eyes and see that we all need to step up. From my subbing and room parenting it seems the ones who complain about the teacher, their child not getting enough candy or not having a good party are the ones who are not involved in their child's education. They expect everyone to do everything for them and their child.

Watch for sales and send in stuff through year...get FAR items and give to teacher. EVERYTHING helps...and it helps kids. Don't say I already pay high taxes...well IT ALL DOESN'T GO TO THE SCHOOLS! AND WHY SHOULD THE TEACHERS HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR CHILD OUT OF THEIR POCKET WHEN THEY PROBABLY HAVE TO SEND IN THE SAME EXTRA SUPPLIES YOU DO!

Sorry for the rant....annoyed that people whine about sending stuff in.

 

[SandrA9810]

I wouldn't have been surprised to see TP on my school supply list in 3rd grade, but that was because my classroom had it's own bathroom. So did the trailer my class was in for 7th grade.

It's a fine line between helping and hurting those in need. You give too much to some one and they won't want to do anything for themselves. You don't help at all and they may not have the basics for doing every day things in life.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I got to agree with you here. I wonder why is that private school can operate on a lower budget and can still provide more than public school .

There is a very simple reason why this is true. A public school is for all intents a monopoly - people are forced to support it with their tax money, and most people are forced to send their children there since they can't afford private school and don't have a non-working parent who can do homeschooling. A private school has to actually compete to get every dime of tuition money it receives, and it has to produce great results for each dollar people spend on it, or it would go broke overnight.

So a private school obviously has to work very, very hard and efficiently just to exist, and the people in it have to do their jobs really well or lose their job.

But a public school is guaranteed to get the same funding every year no matter how badly they teach and how inefficiently they use the money they receive. It's actually worse than that - the more they screw up the MORE money they receive, to you know, fix all the problems they're having. I know that many people working in the public school systems, especially the teachers, are extremely hardworking and conscientious. But as you know, teachers do not run the public schools. They're managed by an army of bureaucrats and ultimately by a bunch of politicians. These bureaucrats and politicians have a completely different set of motivations and priorities from the teachers, the students and the parents. Bureaucrats will always try to benefit the bureaucracy, and when they control a monopoly, screwing up their jobs is exactly what leads to being given more money and more power. "Too many kids in our district failed the standardized exams last year, wow! We need to go on expensive fact-finding tours of other countries to find out how they run their schools! We need to hire a lot more people to solve this problem! All of us experienced people should get promoted so we can manage all the new people we're going to hire, and we need much, much bigger offices and meeting facilities! " And so on.

Politicians' priorities are obviously, political. Politics is driven not by "the people" and their votes, but by the cultivation of powerful interest groups through porkbarrel spending and the awarding of patronage jobs. You would think that politicians would quickly pay the price at election time if they screw up the school system, but these people literally have a million ways of evading responsibility - by blaming other levels of government, blaming the problems on troublemakers (drug dealers, illegal immigrants, whatever), and if they're really cornered the politicians simply threaten to cut some cherished service so that a "rent a mob" appears literally overnight and screams at them until they agree to fully restore the (bloated) budget, and then some.

Sorry for rambling, but the short answer to the question "Why do they run public schools so badly and so inefficiently?" is, because they can. At least, until the money runs out and everyone is completely broke.

P.S. the exact same principles which cause public schools to suck, are also at work in every single other government monopoly! Because when you run a monopoly, failing is where the money is at.

 

[hambirg]

There is a very simple reason why this is true. A public school is for all intents a monopoly - people are forced to support it with their tax money, and most people are forced to send their children there since they can't afford private school and don't have a non-working parent who can do homeschooling. A private school has to actually compete to get every dime of tuition money it receives, and it has to produce great results for each dollar people spend on it, or it would go broke overnight.

So a private school obviously has to work very, very hard and efficiently just to exist, and the people in it have to do their jobs really well or lose their job.

But a public school is guaranteed to get the same funding every year no matter how badly they teach and how inefficiently they use the money they receive. It's actually worse than that - the more they screw up the MORE money they receive, to you know, fix all the problems they're having. I know that many people working in the public school systems, especially the teachers, are extremely hardworking and conscientious. But as you know, teachers do not run the public schools. They're managed by an army of bureaucrats and ultimately by a bunch of politicians. These bureaucrats and politicians have a completely different set of motivations and priorities from the teachers, the students and the parents. Bureaucrats will always try to benefit the bureaucracy, and when they control a monopoly, screwing up their jobs is exactly what leads to being given more money and more power. "Too many kids in our district failed the standardized exams last year, wow! We need to go on expensive fact-finding tours of other countries to find out how they run their schools! We need to hire a lot more people to solve this problem! All of us experienced people should get promoted so we can manage all the new people we're going to hire, and we need much, much bigger offices and meeting facilities! " And so on.

Politicians' priorities are obviously, political. Politics is driven not by "the people" and their votes, but by the cultivation of powerful interest groups through porkbarrel spending and the awarding of patronage jobs. You would think that politicians would quickly pay the price at election time if they screw up the school system, but these people literally have a million ways of evading responsibility - by blaming other levels of government, blaming the problems on troublemakers (drug dealers, illegal immigrants, whatever), and if they're really cornered the politicians simply threaten to cut some cherished service so that a "rent a mob" appears literally overnight and screams at them until they agree to fully restore the (bloated) budget, and then some.

Sorry for rambling, but the short answer to the question "Why do they run public schools so badly and so inefficiently?" is, because they can. At least, until the money runs out and everyone is completely broke.

P.S. the exact same principles which cause public schools to suck, are also at work in every single other government monopoly! Because when you run a monopoly, failing is where the money is at.

OMG! I you! You are soooo right on the money.

When my kids were in private school their supply lists always had 6 boxes of Kleenex on them. I have 3 kids. . .18 boxes. I always bought them. BUT I found out from a friend that volunteers there that they had an entire storage closet full of Kleenex! My oldest daughter confirmed it. Sometimes the box in their classroom had the name of a student that hadn't gone there in 5 years! Needless to say, I stopped buying Kleenex. My sons first grade teacher had 3 cans of Lysol on her supply list. . .I bought it. Thought it seemed a bit much. . .18 kids times 3. . .54 cans of Lysol!? Well, she sprayed everything down with it all the time. My son would literally come home smelling like Lysol. I did finally talk to her a bit and asked her to lighten up on it. I would rather my kid be exposed to a few germs than being doused in Lysol everyday and suffering from headaches.

Anyhoo. . .paper, pencils, glue, notebooks, I don't mind. I don't want the teachers to have to buy supplies out of their own pockets. I know I did when I was teaching. BUT where do we draw the line? Do I need to buy Pinesol and mop heads for the janitor? Should I have to send in garbage bags? I think the people that get fed up with these extensive supply lists are just wondering where the heck their tax money is going! I know districts are getting their budgets cut. . .then they need to cut the fat. The number one priority should be students and classrooms. That's what those taxes are suppose to be going towards. We need to get back to educating kids! Waste is rampant in school districts. And instead of the limited resources trickling down to the classrooms, they should be the priority. Cut the big fat money sucking head right off the top! Sadly this will probably never happen for exactly the reasons that Josh mentioned. It's such a huge bloated bureaucracy that it's disgusting. And the fact that we are arguing about parents that don't send supplies. . .the lil guys that don't pull their own weight is misguided. There is more than enough money in the public schools to educate kids, to provide for classroom supplies and basic needs. BUT all that money is getting sucked right out of the classrooms by the bureaucrats and politicians. That's who you should be outraged at!

 

[crisi]

We could choose to afford to send our kids to private school. We don't. Why? The close private schools don't have better test scores within our socio economic class as the public schools. The far private schools do a better job educating kids- but they are college prep private schools. Our district spend $8500 per student, those private schools have tuition at $18k a year and up.

So how is the private school being more effective?

Now, its my understanding that there are parts of the country where you don't have decent public schools. But that is not universal.

 

[Purseval]

Sorry for rambling, but the short answer to the question "Why do they run public schools so badly and so inefficiently?" is, because they can. At least, until the money runs out and everyone is completely broke.

With the economies of many states the way it is you may actually see a Ronald Reagan moment coming where the teachers do their contract whine, threaten to walk and whoever is in charge calls their bluff, fires the lot and starts over. I remember a lot of air traffic controllers who found out too late that the job wasn't nearly as bad as they thought once they had to find something else.

We could choose to afford to send our kids to private school. We don't. Why? The close private schools don't have better test scores within our socio economic class as the public schools. The far private schools do a better job educating kids- but they are college prep private schools. Our district spend $8500 per student, those private schools have tuition at $18k a year and up.

So how is the private school being more effective?

You answered your own question. Parents that are motivated to succeed generally want their kids to succeed as well so they are more involved in their education. If you expanded your example to include bad public and bad private or no private schools odds are your children would still do well. Georgia Tech always makes the list of best colleges in the nation (and even higher if you use the Payscale list, which tracks colleges based on ROI). The vast majority of their students are from in the state yet the state itself always ranks in the bottom 5 nationally for quality of public school education. Many kids who excel do so in spite of the schools, not because of them.