To the DISer whose husband was looking for a teaching job

Hannathy,

Please sign up to volunteer at the low income school nearest to your home. When you experience a day in the life, you may change your mind.

Experience a day in the life of what? I don't understand your statement at all.
If it is a low income school sorry , I already worked in one, and student taught in one where the only child not on free lunch was the child of a prostitute. So what am I to experience?

The teachers in question were in a low income area their students parents averaged 22,000 they averaged 70,000. Understand why they perhaps got a little upset when the teachers wouldn't spend an extra 20 minutes a day?
 
The teachers in question were in a low income area their students parents averaged 22,000 they averaged 70,000. Understand why they perhaps got a little upset when the teachers wouldn't spend an extra 20 minutes a day?

I don't understand why it matters that the parents average 22,000. So if it were an area where the parents averaged a million or more the expectations should be different?
 
I don't know about your mom, Callie, but my lunch hour is actually a lunch "28 minutes."

I am now home with my 2 year old, but when I was teaching sixth grade, we had 20 minutes from start to finish (through the line, sit down, eat, throw trash away, clean tables, monitor silent lunch & other lunchroom misbehavior) AND we had the luxury of sharing a table with our students (there was no such place as a "lounge" in my school! :rotfl2: ). If you planned well enough, you could use a minute or two to run to the bathroom if a teammate was willing to watch your kids! At another school I taught at, we did not have enough room in the cafeteria, so half of the teachers had to eat lunch with their students in their classrooms after picking up their food from the cafeteria.

I agree that something isn't right in RI, but taking away lunch/planning time or expecting free after-contract-hours tutoring isn't the answer. The root of that problem is much deeper...
 
Frankly, most of the best and brightest, especially in tech areas, are no longer entering the profession of teaching.

I understand the need and/or desire to fire teachers who are just doing less than the minimum and picking up a paycheck. I also understand the need for paying the good teachers a wage that matches their skills, education level, experience, and results.

I made the same amount of money as the teacher next to me whose students did worksheets until the cows came home and whose students regularly scored lower, by fifteen or more points, than my student on the end of course exams, which were department wide exams.

In the end, this is a complicated issue not likely to resolve itself with blanket recriminations, personal attacks, whining, or complaining. . . . . on either side.


very well said. I prefer to look into how to ensure our next generation receives the best education rather than whinning or comparing with a banker working in Manhattan or a policeman's work. We don't know what each work entails and we chose our profession.

If I can decide, I would prefer no tenure for teachers, teachers should be held accountable for their work. On the other hand, I also realize that it can be a very political environment, it does not necessary mean that the best teachers will stay. It can be difficult.

In the case of the RI superintendent, if the changes do not happen, she may have to go as well.
 

Honestly...I have enjoyed the debate. I wanted to post something to make a few people think. So the R.I. superintendent apparently fires the staff. As others have said, who do you think will come in and take that kind of a position? It is already working with needy students and now there is very little, if any job security. Kuddos to the superintendent who just further railroaded those kids and their families.

Conversely, a good teacher can get a job anywhere, at any time. I am not kidding. I have the pick of the litter. If I don't like my job (which I do immensely), I have no worries about finding a new one. I am a good teacher. I am the teacher that you want your kids to have. I inspire and I stretch my kids. I teach Algebra I and Geometry for goodness sake and my kids say it is their favorite class. (Not just the math inclined kids...nearly all of them.) Treat me right and I'll stay in the school, screw around with me and I'll move on. THAT is why teachers need to be treated with respect. It is a snowball effect. Good schools attract good teachers who continue to improve the situation. Teacher bashing and mass firings will never improve schools. Good luck with that, though.
 
So the R.I. superintendent apparently fires the staff. As others have said, who do you think will come in and take that kind of a position? .

Not sure whether it applies to RI. But from what I have read in other forums, it seems that it happened in other schools as well, and apparently, in those cases, the teachers could reapply for the jobs, go through the interviews etc..
 
I need to know what state teacher's retire with a salary of near $118,000. I want a job there. To the person who said teachers get such great benefits, please come to my district.
 
I am a teacher and it hurts my heart to see the venom with which people speak about teachers. They have issues with the money we make and the time we have off. Let me set the record straight on some things:

1. To teach in New York State, I have to have a Master's Degree. My Masters's degree cost me almost $20,000 over ten years ago. I can not imagine what they cost now.

2. In addition to your Superintendent, Principal and other adminstration, you get at least 35 new "bosses", a.k.a. as parents who all want your undivided attention. That number allows for a few single parents, so the number can be higher. They throw guilt around left and right for you to come back to school activities. Heaven forbid we have something to do with our own family that day.

3. In order to get an improved salary, you have to take post-graduate classes that WE PAY FOR!!!!

4. Imagine not being able TO GO TO THE BATHROOM when you need to because there is no one in the hallway to cover your classroom.

5. You can not receive a call unless you have a family emergency. Let's face it folks, there are just times when you need a few minutes to conduct personal business.

6. There is no air conditioning in my school. There were plenty of times last year when my classroom was in the 80's last year. Try getting kids to do ANYTHING when they are so wilted- yet we are expected to!!

7. People are quick to judge teachers because of our salaries. Most teachers at top pay are working over 20 years to get there! Compare our salaries to other white collar workers- they START at what some teachers work 15 years to achieve (WITH MASTERS DEGREES).

8. Where are the venomous people who go after teachers because they are accessible, yet hand some idiot MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS to hit a ball or throw a ball through a hoop. Where are the protests???? Your taxes help to support many stadiums. You get screwed every time you go through the turnstiles. We do a lot more than hit a ball- we are EDUCATING THE FUTURE!!!! I might be wrong, but I think the Major League Baseball season is shorter than the school year. If an athlete makes the playoffs, there are bonuses. Where is my bonus when my former student becomes VALEDICTORIAN????? Do I get a cut of their scholarships???

9. How many NIGHTS and WEEKENDS do I work on school things over and above my school day???? TOO many to mention!!!!

I just can not stand the teacher hating anymore. Half the people who complain about my job could not last ten minutes doing it! URGHHHHH!!!:teacher:
 
I don't know about your mom, Callie, but my lunch hour is actually a lunch "28 minutes."

Our teachers don't get an hour for lunch either. They also often end up having working lunches with meetings with parents or answering phone calls or whatnot. A teacher is severely underpaid for the amount they do.
 
I am a retired teacher who now homeschools.

I have taught along side teachers who were amazing. They came early, stayed late, inspired, instructed, and illuminated.

I have taught along side teachers who were horrible. They came late, left early, yelled, bullied, or just ignored their students.

I have had administrations which were empowering, enjoyable, and excpeted results.

I have had an administrator who came up and Touched My Calf to see if I was "bare legged" or wearing stockings. (I was at a public school with a "no bare leg" policy. We were to wear trousers or stockings and skirts/dresses.) In other words, I have taught under some horrible administrators.

There are some teachers who need to be fired.

There are some teachers who deserve to be cannonized and made Patron Saints of Education.

There are administrations which deserve respect and awe.

There are administrations which foster frustration, failure, and fear.

As for myself, I spent hundreds of dollars out of pocket each year to add the Extras to my class I felt my kids deserved, but for which there was no budget. I came early, stayed late, tutored kids, wrote recommendations, called parents daily, coached, and poured out my heart and soul into my kids every year.

My students have gone on to do amazing things and I hear from them regularly. It always brings a smile to my face and deep joy to know that my life's work had such meaning and importance. I spoke yesterday to a young man I taught in middle school who is now applying to Medical School. He asked me to write one of his recommendations, since he was passionate about medicine even from that young age.

I have a Master's degree and worked at least 60 hours every single week during school, taught summer school, coached, and still made less money, by far, than my husband who has a bachelor's degree in the same field.

He became an engineer while I became a Math and Science teacher.

Frankly, most of the best and brightest, especially in tech areas, are no longer entering the profession of teaching.

I understand the need and/or desire to fire teachers who are just doing less than the minimum and picking up a paycheck. I also understand the need for paying the good teachers a wage that matches their skills, education level, experience, and results.

I made the same amount of money as the teacher next to me whose students did worksheets until the cows came home and whose students regularly scored lower, by fifteen or more points, than my student on the end of course exams, which were department wide exams.

In the end, this is a complicated issue not likely to resolve itself with blanket recriminations, personal attacks, whining, or complaining. . . . . on either side.
Hannarthy, please read this post again. It's written by someone who actually understands education.
I want to know what fantasyland you're living in, because I want a job there!

I don't make anywhere near $70,000 a year. I also don't get holidays "off." I get paid for 187 days of contracted work. I don't get a lunch break, because I am required to sit with my students during lunch. I do get a 30 minute planning period, but that is used to call parents, make copies, do paperwork, go to the restroom, etc.

Since I'm on salary, I don't get paid one penny for any extra time over eight hours that I put in each day. I can also guarantee you that there were many years when I did not get a pay raise due to lacking of funding. (And no, I didn't start my teaching career making $36,000 a year. I wish!)
All the teacher-bashers are in Fantasy Land! We had a shortage of teachers here for years, and now we certainly don't have an over-supply; that speaks to the desirability of the job and the pay. I could say a number of things similar to your statements:

I started at less than 20K, and I have not had a payraise every year; we have a salary freeze in place right now.
Now I'm a little over 40K, but that's after almost two decades in the classroom. As you can see, I'm I'm far from the national average of 52K.
This year we didn't get a bonus that we'd earned because of the economy; this is money were promised, and no one ever said a word about it being contingent on anything except our performance. We were also put into a weird furlough-day-but-you-can't-take-it position. I promise you that when Bev Purdue runs for governer again (if she's fool enough to try), the NC teachers will stand against her. She's even admitted already that she shouldn't have done everything she did. Too little, too late, Bev.
I am required to be at school 7:00 - 2:30 (plus time at home preparing for lessons, grading, etc.). Although I never come even a minute early in the morning, about half the time I am at school 'til 3:30-4:00; most younger teachers -- those who don't have a supply of ready-to-go-lessons like I do -- spend much more time working past 2:30.
Yes, we have good pensions, but our insurance deductibles have doubled in the past few years, and our premiums have more than doubled.
I am not paid for summer vacation.
Most weeks I have 26 minutes per day for lunch; one week out of six weeks I get no lunch (though I am allowed to eat standing up in the cafeteria while supervising stuents).
I am required to tutor students after school without pay.
I am required to spend a certain amount of time sponsoring clubs, chaperoning social events and sporting events without pay.
I spend quite a bit of money on items for my classroom, and every year we end up chipping in for things like kids who can't afford clothing for graduation.

I like my job and don't want any other job, but I do think I'm under-paid for the amount of time and effort I put in. Without a doubt, though, the single thing I dislike most about it is people who feel the need to put down teachers -- even though their facts are inevitably wrong.
 
If I can decide, I would prefer no tenure for teachers, teachers should be held accountable for their work. On the other hand, I also realize that it can be a very political environment, it does not necessary mean that the best teachers will stay. It can be difficult.

In the case of the RI superintendent, if the changes do not happen, she may have to go as well.
Tenure doesn't mean teachers can't be fired -- it only means they cannot be fired WITHOUT CAUSE.

A first-year teacher who has only a one-year contract can be let go because the principal's nephew graduated with a degree in Biology and needs a job. Or because another teacher who's qualified to coach basketball came along. Or because that teacher didn't give a passing grade to a school board member's child. Do we really want to put good teachers into those positions?

The problem isn't with tenure -- it's with weak administrators who don't attack problems where they see them. Tenure, as it is intended to be used, protects a good teacher, but it should do nothing to ensure that a bad teacher remains employed.

As for Rhode Island, I don't have any personal knowledge about that situation and cannot pass judgement on that specific area. But I wouldn't trust the media to have told the whole story.
 
Our teachers don't get an hour for lunch either. They also often end up having working lunches with meetings with parents or answering phone calls or whatnot. A teacher is severely underpaid for the amount they do.
Today I didn't get lunch at all because I spent that time helping a student with a scholarship essay -- and I'm not allowed to have a soda or a pack of crackers later in the day while I'm teaching. Who wants to tell me I am over-paid or sitting around on my butt in a cushy job?

If you ate lunch today, please do not comment.
 
Not in this state.. the minimum starting salary with a bachelors is 47K. Most districts start at over 50K. Upon retirement, teachers usually are making 85-110K a year

Let me guess...NJ!!!

We know several young people who graduated college in 2009, and one from 2008, with teaching degrees from well-respected teaching programs. They cannot find jobs here in NJ! Most are subbing whenever/wherever they can.
 
Let me guess...NJ!!!

We know several young people who graduated college in 2009, and one from 2008, with teaching degrees from well-respected teaching programs. They cannot find jobs here in NJ! Most are subbing whenever/wherever they can.
Yes, the NorthEast has a unique situation in regards to teaching: Their salaries are much, much higher than those in the majority of the country, and -- probably as a result -- teaching jobs are more highly coveted and don't "turn over" as often.

However, this is not the reality for the majority of America. If those young people are willing to look outside those isolated pockets, they'll find jobs. We have 'em here! Of course, the salary is only about half of what it is up North.
 
Hannarthy, please read this post again. It's written by someone who actually understands education. All the teacher-bashers are in Fantasy Land! We had a shortage of teachers here for years, and now we certainly don't have an over-supply; that speaks to the desirability of the job and the pay. I could say a number of things similar to your statements:

I started at less than 20K, and I have not had a payraise every year; we have a salary freeze in place right now.
Now I'm a little over 40K, but that's after almost two decades in the classroom. As you can see, I'm I'm far from the national average of 52K.
This year we didn't get a bonus that we'd earned because of the economy; this is money were promised, and no one ever said a word about it being contingent on anything except our performance. We were also put into a weird furlough-day-but-you-can't-take-it position. I promise you that when Bev Purdue runs for governer again (if she's fool enough to try), the NC teachers will stand against her. She's even admitted already that she shouldn't have done everything she did. Too little, too late, Bev.
I am required to be at school 7:00 - 2:30 (plus time at home preparing for lessons, grading, etc.). Although I never come even a minute early in the morning, about half the time I am at school 'til 3:30-4:00; most younger teachers -- those who don't have a supply of ready-to-go-lessons like I do -- spend much more time working past 2:30.
Yes, we have good pensions, but our insurance deductibles have doubled in the past few years, and our premiums have more than doubled.
I am not paid for summer vacation.
Most weeks I have 26 minutes per day for lunch; one week out of six weeks I get no lunch (though I am allowed to eat standing up in the cafeteria while supervising stuents).
I am required to tutor students after school without pay.
I am required to spend a certain amount of time sponsoring clubs, chaperoning social events and sporting events without pay.
I spend quite a bit of money on items for my classroom, and every year we end up chipping in for things like kids who can't afford clothing for graduation.

I like my job and don't want any other job, but I do think I'm under-paid for the amount of time and effort I put in. Without a doubt, though, the single thing I dislike most about it is people who feel the need to put down teachers -- even though their facts are inevitably wrong.

I consider teaching a professional career, and like most professional careers, there is no overtime pay, or set hours worked. I don't understand why teachers seem to complain about working more hours than the school day hours? Don't you know many professionals in business, law, other fields, who work more than standard office hours of 40 hours a week?:confused3 People take home work, work on weekends, all the time in many different jobs, and not all are high paying. Example, law is a field people often think is well-paying. Outside top firms in NY and other big cities, and for graduates of less than top schools, it is often not that great.

However, teaching is one of the few professional positions around here that is unionized. Around here they are trying to get the teachers to contribute "something" for their health care and the union is in an uproar.

I know from your posts you are a very dedicated and committed teacher. I'm sure you realize that your salary and required afterschool time commitments are not the norm everywhere. (there are many dedicated teachers who do the tutoring/clubs/chaperoning without being required.) Most people that I know that go into teaching know the salary going in, but the trade off for most is summers off with their kids, having the same schedule as their kids, and around here anyway, the benefits and pension.
 
Just want to add we know a number of recent grads who cannot get teaching jobs here in NJ! They graduated from well-respected programs but apparently it is due to the economy-districts are cutting positions, not hiring replacements, and people are not retiring as expected. The recent grads are subbing wherever/whenever they can. It is tough.
 
I want to know what fantasyland you're living in, because I want a job there!

I don't make anywhere near $70,000 a year. I also don't get holidays "off." I get paid for 187 days of contracted work. I don't get a lunch break, because I am required to sit with my students during lunch. I do get a 30 minute planning period, but that is used to call parents, make copies, do paperwork, go to the restroom, etc.

Since I'm on salary, I don't get paid one penny for any extra time over eight hours that I put in each day. I can also guarantee you that there were many years when I did not get a pay raise due to lacking of funding. (And no, I didn't start my teaching career making $36,000 a year. I wish!)

Do you think other professional jobs get paid overtime? :confused3
 
I am originally from IL. Grew up there. My family still teaches up there. Taught my first year there. I made 34,000 my first year. This was 2005. This was in a NICE, affluent suburb. Yes, teachers top out at over 100 in IL. Their pay scale is weird up there. They start really low and grow almost exponentially. I would have jumped about 14,000 in year 4 if I got my Masters.

Instead, we chose to move to TX. I made 44,000 in year two. In TX, I will earn about 600-800 more each additional year of experience. I will certainly never top 100. In fact, they top out at about 60. Of course the cost of living as compared to Chicagoland was a no brainer for me.

Please do not think that Naperville, Warrenville, Winnetka, Evanston, Deerfield, etc. represent the true picture of education. (Not to mention the unions dominate up in IL to the detriment of education in my humble opinion.) Again, IL is a very weird case.
 
Do you think other professional jobs get paid overtime? :confused3

No, I know that salaried employees do not get paid overtime. I knew I wouldn't get overtime when I accepted my teaching position. However, obviously Hannathy does not know that fact, as he/she stated in this comment:

The average salary at the High School in question is 72,000-78,000. Yes you make 36,000 in your first year but you will go up every year. Guaranteed- I know of no other job you are guaranteed to go up every year. Teachers start low but they top out high for the amount of time they spend at their jobs. The us median I think is around 52,000 not bad for 10 months, every weekend off, every holiday off, spring break, Christmas break, and compensation for every minute over what is required, plus personal days.
Yes Teaching is a job but it isn't slave labor and is a very desirable job or else there wouldn't be waiting lists a mile long every time there is an opening.




I consider teaching a professional career, and like most professional careers, there is no overtime pay, or set hours worked. I don't understand why teachers seem to complain about working more hours than the school day hours? Don't you know many professionals in business, law, other fields, who work more than standard office hours of 40 hours a week?:confused3 People take home work, work on weekends, all the time in many different jobs, and not all are high paying. Example, law is a field people often think is well-paying. Outside top firms in NY and other big cities, and for graduates of less than top schools, it is often not that great.

However, teaching is one of the few professional positions around here that is unionized. Around here they are trying to get the teachers to contribute "something" for their health care and the union is in an uproar.

I know from your posts you are a very dedicated and committed teacher. I'm sure you realize that your salary and required afterschool time commitments are not the norm everywhere. (there are many dedicated teachers who do the tutoring/clubs/chaperoning without being required.) Most people that I know that go into teaching know the salary going in, but the trade off for most is summers off with their kids, having the same schedule as their kids, and around here anyway, the benefits and pension.

And how many threads have there been lately bashing professionals in business, law, and other fields? Take a look around, and you'll find many teacher-bashing threads. I'm sick and tired of people thinking I have a high-paying, cushy job and get paid lunches, holidays, and summers. Most people are talking about something of which they know nothing about. It gets old!
 

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