To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[roxymama]

I think a perfect marathon race is very similar to what @garneska described above. Miles 1-13 should feel very easy. 14-16 you need to start working harder and focusing more. 17-22 is hard and requires full concentration. 23-26 you just hold on for dear life and ignore everything else.

This sounds very very very familiar.

 

[garneska]

Miles 1-13 should feel very easy. 14-16 you need to start working harder and focusing more. 17-22 is hard and requires full concentration. 23-26 you just hold on for dear life and ignore everything else.

Well I did good then because that is exactly how I felt. Also I can’t argue with my outcome. It was a huge PR and faster than all the race predictors.

 

[DopeyBadger]

If you’re on Facebook, ask to join the PB&J Buy-Sell-Trade group.

Is it this one? (link)

 

[Keels]

Is it this one? (link)

Nah. It’s PB&J [Pedals, Bikes & Junk]

 

[DopeyBadger]

Nah. It’s PB&J [Pedals, Bikes & Junk]

Thanks! Found it.

 

[BikeFan]

It's definitely possible. I do know with 100% certainty in my mind that if I had run the 2018 Disney Marathon as a solo event I would have broken 3 hours. No doubt in my mind about that. Even in the moment, the thought had crossed my mind. I had an outstanding training cycle. The weather conditions were seemingly near perfect. So it seemed like a perfect chance to nail a perfect race. But I ended up opting for the choice of racing all 4 races as was my intention when I arrived there. I didn't want to risk the chance I didn't break 3 hours on the possibility of not getting that 5th Dopey. So I went with the safer choice. Now, that was in my mind a safe decision because I was going to run a sub-2:52 in Chicago. But it didn't play out that way. I got injured right after Dopey. In July I got a glimpse of the same pre-Dopey fitness. And then in August, injured again. So if someone would have told me that I would have spent nearly the entire 2018 year marred by injuries, then I probably would have skipped the other Dopey races and just done the marathon for a sub-3 attempt. But it's a matter of retrospect and I can't change the past.

I can certainly believe that about your 2018 Disney fitness. The fact you ran a 3:15 full after PR efforts the days before in the half, 10K, and 5K confirms your fitness at the time. It was an impressive effort. Plus, the times I spoke with you, your mood seemed to be good. Everything pointed toward a solid performance.

And that's what does bother me. I haven't been able to shake that yet. I put in a tremendous amount of training specifically for a certain purpose. So when things go bad, they bother me immensely. I tried doing more races so I had more opportunities. But then I would just bag on races early because "I had another chance coming up" or at least I would mentally. So I haven't quite nailed down that perfect balance yet, other than doing blind racing so I can't lose motivation (but then conversely can't gain more motivation).

Many years ago, before I actually started running seriously, I read a profile on Sport Illustrated's site on Al Heppner, an elite race-walker who twice failed to make the U.S. Olympic team, in 2000 and 2004. After the second time he missed qualifying, he committed suicide. It was an incredibly sad and stark warning about the limits of competitive obsession. I'm not suggesting any of us have carried our competitiveness to that unhealthy level, but we're all susceptible to the lesser dangers of goal-seeking behavior, like over-training and stress/anxiety. We need to put just enough pressure on ourselves to motivate us to set and reach our goals, but not so much that it actually detracts from achieving those goals. It's definitely a balance for sure.

That's tough for me to wrap my arms around. The marathon from a physical standpoint takes a huge toll on the body. At this point in my racing, I can't comprehend tackling the distance without a target goal when healthy. Just from the sheer recovery standpoint before training for a target race can resume again. I mean I get that's what I just did - a marathon without a time goal. But for me, that's because I wasn't healthy going into the race.

Surprisingly, I've found since I've started running a bunch of non-race marathons that the recovery has been pretty quick. I'm usually pretty good after two or three days, sometimes sooner. Of course, most of my training is based on low-intensity volume, so throwing a marathon or 50K into the mix is just a longer long run and not a big deal, physically. Every runner is different and should do what works for them, obviously. One of the other benefits of frequent racing is the chance to experience the race environment without the pressure of a time goal, which is great fun and a huge mental boost. It's created more positive mental associations which help me remain calmer on days I'm actually racing. Anyway, that's just been my experience; maybe some of that will be helpful.

 

[TheHamm]

Surprisingly, I've found since I've started running a bunch of non-race marathons that the recovery has been pretty quick. I'm usually pretty good after two or three days, sometimes sooner. Of course, most of my training is based on low-intensity volume, so throwing a marathon or 50K into the mix is just a longer long run and not a big deal, physically. Every runner is different and should do what works for them, obviously. One of the other benefits of frequent racing is the chance to experience the race environment without the pressure of a time goal, which is great fun and a huge mental boost. It's created more positive mental associations which help me remain calmer on days I'm actually racing. Anyway, that's just been my experience; maybe some of that will be helpful.

I can imagine this could be an extension of training for a goal race. It is repeated over and over that much of the race is mental. In many ways, our bodies react to stimuli unconsciously, and based on repetition. If the mind is trained to be calm going into a race without a goal, it may well carry over to a race with a goal.

 

[KSellers88]

Congrats Billy! The hurricane has me behind on catching up with training journals, but I am so proud of you for pushing through the pain to finish. Great job!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Many years ago, before I actually started running seriously, I read a profile on Sport Illustrated's site on Al Heppner, an elite race-walker who twice failed to make the U.S. Olympic team, in 2000 and 2004. After the second time he missed qualifying, he committed suicide. It was an incredibly sad and stark warning about the limits of competitive obsession. I'm not suggesting any of us have carried our competitiveness to that unhealthy level, but we're all susceptible to the lesser dangers of goal-seeking behavior, like over-training and stress/anxiety. We need to put just enough pressure on ourselves to motivate us to set and reach our goals, but not so much that it actually detracts from achieving those goals. It's definitely a balance for sure.

No worries there. I'm determined and focused, but I don't take it so seriously I can't see the bigger picture of life.

Congrats Billy! The hurricane has me behind on catching up with training journals, but I am so proud of you for pushing through the pain to finish. Great job!

Thanks! Hopefully everything worked out for you.

 

[KSellers88]

Thanks! Hopefully everything worked out for you.

Yup! We are good! Luckily it passed south and east of us. We have one tree down but it just fell on nothing in the middle of the yard, thank goodness!

 

[canglim52]

Great discussion on the mental side :-D Imo this is what separates Kipchoge from the rest. @BikeFan I’d actually recommend embracing the pain on training runs rather than avoiding/distracting/disassociating from it. You may run slower and bail on a few runs, but that’s just part of the journey. Billy and I have had a lot of talks about learning to run blind, and that’s the biggest piece that helped me. Now when I feel pain, I understand it better because I don’t avoid it. If it’s too much, just remind your self “this too shall pass.”

As for seeing your splits and gaining/losing motivation, I think that’s tied into desire. You can have goals, but learning to separate your self from your thoughts and ultimately your desires could greatly help imo. Every race I have goals, but by the time I line up and start I’ve stopped focusing on those and instead shift my focus inward on my self. By doing this I feel I can take what my body gives me on that day. Now you can absolutely argue that I leave a lot on the table compared to what I’m potentially capable of(my Achilles is I’m a scardy cat lol)... but I feel like this has made me healthier(more consistient) and over time faster. The faster/fitter I get, the more I can unlock previously torturous levels of pain and run closer to my potential. Maybe my way is slower moving, maybe I’ll never hit Salazar levels of mental strength and running until death, but I feel like Kipchoge calm is > than Salazar’s death/revival... and I ultimately run to be one with my body not to kill it. All that said, we all have to find our own methods for our journey... I love this blog and all that you share because it helps me a ton on my journey! Thanks for all the inspiration Coach Blaser!!

 

[cavepig]

Thanks for sharing your race recap. Love the pictures of you guys running together. Heal up & rest up, I'm sure you've got that BQ in the near future, and Disney is a great course for achieving it based on hearing others achieve it there.

and I totally need to go eat some donuts now and maybe put pineapple on it

 

[Chasing Dopey]

Great recap, Billy! And it's a great reminder not to let the clock be the end all be all of the marathon experience.

Re: getting stronger, or more toned (I can't remember the exact wording when you first mentioned it), I'll diverge from the consensus on yoga. (Sorry, gang!) There's nothing wrong with yoga, of course, but what is your goal? If the goal is strength, then pursue strength directly. Squats, presses, and (perhaps most importantly) deadlifts, done right, will get you stronger, and thus increase you ability to generate power. I'm exploring this more and more.

 

[sourire]

Loved your recap, Billy! Inspiring, as always.

I let out a loud "Woo!" while on the treadmill at the gym on Sunday (and got some stares, I am sure), when I saw that you and @CheapRunnerMike had crossed the finish line within seconds of each other! And then I couldn't wait to hear both of your recaps. Favorite pic is the bunny ears one! You look like you are both having a lot of fun at that snapshot in time! All of these amazing Chicago recaps (and that pic!) make me want to run another marathon sooner rather than later!

Heal swiftly, so you can get back out there and crush it.

Also, this talk of the mental game is very helpful. So appreciate your journal and everyone's great discussion and experience. Thank you all!!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thanks for sharing your race recap. Love the pictures of you guys running together.

Thanks for reading. A top experience in my lifetime for sure.

Heal up & rest up, I'm sure you've got that BQ in the near future, and Disney is a great course for achieving it based on hearing others achieve it there.

I know that BQ is only a matter of time. In more ways than one. Mentioned the possibility of a Disney 2020 marathon, and Steph was like, well if you're going to twist my arm... But I'd like to see how 2019 goes before committing to anything. The other possibility is the Celebration Marathon (@canglim52 recommendation).

and I totally need to go eat some donuts now and maybe put pineapple on it

Now that's what I'm talking about.

Great recap, Billy! And it's a great reminder not to let the clock be the end all be all of the marathon experience.

Thanks!

Re: getting stronger, or more toned (I can't remember the exact wording when you first mentioned it), I'll diverge from the consensus on yoga. (Sorry, gang!) There's nothing wrong with yoga, of course, but what is your goal? If the goal is strength, then pursue strength directly. Squats, presses, and (perhaps most importantly) deadlifts, done right, will get you stronger, and thus increase you ability to generate power. I'm exploring this more and more.

The true goal is some other form of exercise that will support my running. Given how 2018 has gone, I might have to start pulling back on running more and adding in other supplemental training. So yoga, biking, 80 day obsession, etc. are just to hopefully make me a better runner. Mostly looking for some additional fatigue resistance in my legs.

Loved your recap, Billy! Inspiring, as always.

Thanks for reading!

I let out a loud "Woo!" while on the treadmill at the gym on Sunday (and got some stares, I am sure), when I saw that you and @CheapRunnerMike had crossed the finish line within seconds of each other! And then I couldn't wait to hear both of your recaps. Favorite pic is the bunny ears one! You look like you are both having a lot of fun at that snapshot in time! All of these amazing Chicago recaps (and that pic!) make me want to run another marathon sooner rather than later!

Thanks for tracking us! It was a blast for sure. Running as best we could given our 2018s but still cutting jokes and having fun out there.

Heal swiftly, so you can get back out there and crush it.

Thanks! Hoping the crushing can commence again soon!

Also, this talk of the mental game is very helpful. So appreciate your journal and everyone's great discussion and experience. Thank you all!!

Agreed. It's nice to get other perspectives on this topic for me.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

We need to put just enough pressure on ourselves to motivate us to set and reach our goals, but not so much that it actually detracts from achieving those goals. It's definitely a balance for sure.

I've often thought of something coach charles used to post when this was in the W.I.S.H. thread. Do you own running or does running own you? Balance is so difficult, but so important to seek. We learn so much from the process and the journey that can help is in our day to day lives.

Every race I have goals, but by the time I line up and start I’ve stopped focusing on those and instead shift my focus inward on my self. By doing this I feel I can take what my body gives me on that day. Now you can absolutely argue that I leave a lot on the table compared to what I’m potentially capable of(my Achilles is I’m a scardy cat lol)... but I feel like this has made me healthier(more consistient) and over time faster.

I really love this approach of learning to understand what we're realistically capable of on the given day. We give ourselves permission to accept what comes, learn from it, and continue pressing forward. Maybe we don't achieve a specific time goal, but I believe we achieve something more valuable in learning to persevere through a challenge instead of letting the challenge defeat us simply because "today wasn't my day."

I nearly quit less than one mile into my first race. And as I look back on all that I've experienced since that moment through running, I would have missed out on so much if had I decided "I tried running and it's not for me."

 

[Chasing Dopey]

The true goal is some other form of exercise that will support my running. Given how 2018 has gone, I might have to start pulling back on running more and adding in other supplemental training. So yoga, biking, 80 day obsession, etc. are just to hopefully make me a better runner. Mostly looking for some additional fatigue resistance in my legs.

Have you seen Jason Fitzgerald's stuff at strengthrunning.com? He is of course trying to sell his program, but there is a lot of good information there otherwise. I think we runners tend to neglect basic strength building, and want to think our sport is different and requires something specialized and unique. But I'm starting to believe that the same simple and raw approach that benefits other sports applies to running as well.

 

[dis_or_dat]

Appreciate the mental aspect discussions. Seems like 23-26 are going to be really rough. I'm not the type of person to lean into pain so I may need to train for that.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Have you seen Jason Fitzgerald's stuff at strengthrunning.com? He is of course trying to sell his program, but there is a lot of good information there otherwise. I think we runners tend to neglect basic strength building, and want to think our sport is different and requires something specialized and unique. But I'm starting to believe that the same simple and raw approach that benefits other sports applies to running as well.

I have seen it but not used it. Might be something to consider as I start making decisions on what to do next.

 

[cavepig]

I know that BQ is only a matter of time. In more ways than one. Mentioned the possibility of a Disney 2020 marathon, and Steph was like, well if you're going to twist my arm... But I'd like to see how 2019 goes before committing to anything. The other possibility is the Celebration Marathon (@canglim52 recommendation).

I'm actually trying to find another Florida marathon to try to run for time, I'll have to keep Celebration in mind! I've got Goofy and have been dealing with a leg issue, so like you it's kind of wait and see.