To B2B or not 2B?

[Jess_S]

We're currently booked on the April 30, 2017 S. Caribbean cruise on the Magic. Here's the itinerary:

1 San Juan, Puerto Rico
2 At Sea - -
3 Bridgetown, Barbados
4 Castries, St. Lucia
5 Fort-de-France, Martinique
6 St. John's, Antigua
7 Basseterre, St. Kitts
8 San Juan, Puerto Rico

My husband is interested in seeing Castaway Cay (we've never been), so I am considering booking a B2B on the repositioning cruise from San Juan to Port Canaveral. The itinerary for the repositioning is:

1 San Juan (Pan American Pier)
2 St. Kitts
3 Antigua
4 Tortola
5 At Sea
6 Castaway Cay

My concerns about booking the B2B are:

1) Will the trip feel too long? I'd love to hear from people who've done B2Bs where some of the ports repeat. (I assume menu and show repetition is par for the course with a B2B).

2) Should we trade pre-trip travel in Puerto Rico for an extra week of cruising? If we don't book the B2B, we'd probably spend 3 nights or so in San Juan and travel around PR a bit. If we do book the B2B, there won't be money or time for that. (We'd just come in the day before, giving us a little time to see San Juan -- but nothing else in PR).

3) Will there be enough to keep my 4 year old entertained? I'm more worried about ports because the DCL port adventures that will accept 4 year olds are pretty much limited to bus tours, which neither he nor I have any interest in. That means we'll be on our own in every port. Those of you who have taken young kids to the Caribbean, what activities did your kids enjoy?

The pluses I've come up with are: 1) seeing Castaway Cay; 2) less pressure to do everything on the ship during week 1; 3) chance to see how my son does in kids club before booking Palo, tastings and other adult stuff; and 4) my birthday falls during the repositioning cruise.

So, to B2B or not 2B? That is the question. We can't book until tomorrow, so I have all day today to decide whether to give my TA the go-ahead on the B2B.

 

[jskacoc]

We were originally booked on the November San Juan repo and due to some maritime laws you couldn't do a b2b or so I read.

 

[lorimay]

I am booked on these 2 cruises with my husband, I like that with the repo we will travel to a couple ports twice, so we can see more.
I love that we are ending it on Castaway Cay.
This is our 1st B2B, very excited.
Our longest cruise so far is 10 nights, did not feel too long at all.

Good Luck!

 

[lorimay]

We were originally booked on the November San Juan repo and due to some maritime laws you couldn't do a b2b or so I read.

There is an exception with San Juan, so we are able to do both.

 

[jskacoc]

There is an exception with San Juan, so we are able to do both.

Wow that's cool. I didn't see anyone talk about it after I read you couldn't so I didn't realize it was an exception. Hmm if I had known that I might not have changed my plans.

 

[MouseMomx2]

Too long? Never! We just booked a 15-night Transatlantic back-to-back with a 7-night Northern Europe. If DH could get the vacation time I would have booked a third sailing. So far our longest cruise has been 14 nights and we are so excited to be sailing for 22 this time. I say book it!

 

[Jess_S]

We were originally booked on the November San Juan repo and due to some maritime laws you couldn't do a b2b or so I read.

I'm a legal nerd, so this has peaked my curiosity and I've been having fun learning something new. My understanding now based upon my research is that under the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886, a cruise between 2 US ports that is not closed loop must visit a "distant" foreign port. Central America, Bermuda, the Bahamas, and all of the Caribbean except Aruba,Bonaire, and Curaçao are NOT considered distant foreign ports. See 46 U.S.C. sec. 289. So absent some exemption, my B2B would be illegal. I had no idea.

As lorimay mentioned though, Puerto Rico is specifically exempted from the PSVA. 46 U.S.C. sec. 289c. Reading the language of the statute, it looks like it would generally be legal to transport someone directly from PR to the mainland US without even needing to stop in a foreign port.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

We were originally booked on the November San Juan repo and due to some maritime laws you couldn't do a b2b or so I read.

You can't do a B2B that starts in one US port and ends in a different US port. There were people who tried to book B2B Galveston/San Juan with the San Juan/Miami cruise. The PVSA views a B2B as one cruise so Galveston to Miami is not allowed because there is no distant foreign port visited.

You can do a San Juan round trip B2B with San Juan to Port Canaveral, however, since the PVSA waives the requirement for a distant foreign port stop on cruises to/from Puerto Rico.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

my B2B would be illegal.

I'm reading the B2B that you're considering as a San Juan roundtrip with a San Juan to Port Canaveral (or Miami?) one way. Is that correct? It wouldn't be illegal, as a B2B under the PVSA is viewed as one cruise. In your case the cruise will go from San Juan to Port Canaveral (or wherever) and is legal.

Cruises to/from Puerto Rico are expempted from the "distant foreign port" requirement: "An exception to the PVSA permits non-coastwise-qualified vessels (vessels not qualified to engage in the coastwise trade) to transport passengers on voyages between ports in Puerto Rico and other U.S. ports until qualified U.S. vessels are available."
http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pvsa_icp_3.pdf

 

[lorimay]

I really wish all the cruise lines would ban together to try and get this outdated law off the books, its old and outdated.

 

[clten]

We have done back to back 7 day cruises where we have repeated ports (one time we knew we would be repeating one port; on another b2b we ended up repeating the whole itinerary because last minute (as in while we were on the first half) DCL made port changes.) We just planned on doing different things while in the port the second time so it didn't bother us that we were going back to the same places. You'll be seeing interesting ports more than once so I really don't think the repeating ports should be a problem (and if you find you really don't enjoy one of the ports, stay onboard for a quiet day -- with a Southern Caribbean itinerary, most everyone will be getting off at least for a little while since they are not ports people repeat often like Nassau!)

Another suggestion, if you are missing your pre-cruise days in San Juan, use the turnover day as a port day. Just because they will check you in and let you back on first doesn't mean you have to do that. I don't know if DCL will have excursions that day -- sometimes they do. But you can make your own arrangements. You just have to make it back before muster drill (you can check onboard with the time you need to return if you are going out on your own.)

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I really wish all the cruise lines would ban together to try and get this outdated law off the books, its old and outdated.

It's been tried. And the proposed new law was much more of a problem for the cruise industry than this one is. It included:
the stop lasts at least 48 hours at the foreign port
time spent at foreign port is more than 50 percent of total time at U.S. ports of call

 

[lorimay]

It's been tried. And the proposed new law was much more of a problem for the cruise industry than this one is. It included:
the stop lasts at least 48 hours at the foreign port
time spent at foreign port is more than 50 percent of total time at U.S. ports of call

Oh brother, that's some craziness..........

 

[Jess_S]

You can do a San Juan round trip B2B with San Juan to Port Canaveral, however, since the PVSA waives the requirement for a distant foreign port stop on cruises to/from Puerto Rico.

That was my conclusion too.

As lorimay mentioned though, Puerto Rico is specifically exempted from the PSVA. 46 U.S.C. sec. 289c. Reading the language of the statute, it looks like it would generally be legal to transport someone directly from PR to the mainland US without even needing to stop in a foreign port.

Sorry if I was unclear. The reason that I originally researched why there needed to be an "exemption" for San Juan was because I didn't know about the distant foreign port requirement for cruises that aren't closed loop.

 

[Jess_S]

Another suggestion, if you are missing your pre-cruise days in San Juan, use the turnover day as a port day. Just because they will check you in and let you back on first doesn't mean you have to do that. I don't know if DCL will have excursions that day -- sometimes they do. But you can make your own arrangements. You just have to make it back before muster drill (you can check onboard with the time you need to return if you are going out on your own.)

Hmm... I wonder how far afield we could go during that day. I would love to somehow squeeze in El Yunque, but I'm not sure if that's too ambitious.

I got my husband's sign off on the B2B. (He's not really a cruise fan, but I used "It's my birthday," as my reason and he couldn't argue with my logic). I'm still weighing options. It may well come down to how crazy the fare is.

 

[TGuy]

Help! I am confused. Can I book these 2 B2B Cruises: New York to San Juan (5 night stops at Tortola) then San Juan to Miami (5 night stops at Tortola, St. Kitts, Castaway Cay)? I am confused regarding the San Juan "exemption" issue.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Help! I am confused. Can I book these 2 B2B Cruises: New York to San Juan (5 night stops at Tortola) then San Juan to Miami (5 night stops at Tortola, St. Kitts, Castaway Cay)? I am confused regarding the San Juan "exemption" issue.

You cannot do those two cruises as a B2B, as it would violate the PVSA.

The law says that a foreign flagged vessel cannot transport passengers between two different US ports without a stop in a distant foreign port. A distant foreign port is described as any port NOT in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao).

There is an exemption for cruises between Puerto Rico and other US ports, "until qualified U.S. vessels are available." So each of the cruises you want to take (if taken separately) are legal.

All that said, a B2B combining those two cruise would not be legal. A B2B, in the eyes of the PVSA, would mean your cruise would be from New York to Port Canaveral with no DISTANT foreign port stop. And, therefore, illegal.

 

[Quellman]

You can certainly travel with a 4 year old and having some amazing times. Anything with activities can be great as well as anything with animals. Take a few trips on a boat to a beach, do some stingray tours, maybe dolphins if that is your jam. We generally stay on the boat for most all ports, and my 3 year old didn't seem to mind or care. It was nemos reef and the kids club open houses. He was set if we through in a character visit with Chip n Dale. Kids will quickly fall into the new routine. The staff will really know all about your family by the second trip, especially if you let them know you will be doing a back to back.

We loved our Dream b2b with only a few reservations since the menu was repeated in quick succession. Have a great trip!