Tired of Tipping

[nunzia]

And, honestly, this is my problem how? I tip for the service I got, not the service that the other waitstaff may or may not be giving to their tables.

I did not say it was your problem..the point I was making is that this policy is UNFAIR to hard working servers that lazy ones get the same cut. Whoever came up with this pooled tipping thing has obviously never worked in a tipped position.

 

[mjkacmom]

Actually the faulty philosophy is on the servers side. Don't take a job unless you are willing to accept the pay and feel that it is fair with no tips at all. To take a job and know that you will only make enough money if everyone tips is foolish.

It's the same thing as taking a position where most of your salary is on commission. Yes, it's a gamble, but many people in sales make a lot of money, yet some don't. Where I live, servers don't make much more than $2 an hour (and we have a VERY high COL). We have tons of restaurants, and therefore, many servers. I've done it, and it's hard work, but usually the generous tippers will compensate for the cheapskates.

Does anyone think $2.13 an hour is a fair wage? In this economy, good luck even finding a waitressing job here.

 

[Alesia]

It's the same thing as taking a position where most of your salary is on commission. Yes, it's a gamble, but many people in sales make a lot of money, yet some don't.

I think this is a great point. A commission is essentially a tip that the customer is forced to pay, yet no one here is claiming that sales people are uneducated and that they should have chosen a better job.

 

[thomas998]

I think this is a great point. A commission is essentially a tip that the customer is forced to pay, yet no one here is claiming that sales people are uneducated and that they should have chosen a better job.

Sorry but a commission is completely different from a tip. From the buyers standpoint he is given a price for a product, he doesn't care if the bulk of the money goes to the company, the salesman or the gardener, doesn't matter. From the salesman's perspective he knows exactly what he gets off a sale. If he knows or believes he can make sales he knows what percent he is going to get. Now a server is going work period and has no right to expect anything when they serve a table... the key difference is that a tip is completely arbitrary, a commission is a known amount with only the actual sale being unknown.

 

[rockundergirl]

We live in a university town and all the servers are college kids-my own was a waiter for one year and he still says , years later, it was the hardest job he ever did-how anyone can not tip a hard working lid putting themselves thru college is cruel.

I take issue with this, I never have understood why someone with money has to give that money to someone else because they don't have money? Should my boss pay me more because he makes 300,000 grand a year and I make 60,000? Or should he pay me what I'm worth based on the value I bring to the table? I don't tip extra because someone is impoverished , again I tip based on the service I get. Honestly that would prob be a more valuable lessen the to the "college kid" than any tip amount.

It's the same thing as taking a position where most of your salary is on commission. Yes, it's a gamble, but many people in sales make a lot of money, yet some don't. Where I live, servers don't make much more than $2 an hour (and we have a VERY high COL). We have tons of restaurants, and therefore, many servers. I've done it, and it's hard work, but usually the generous tippers will compensate for the cheapskates.

Does anyone think $2.13 an hour is a fair wage? In this economy, good luck even finding a waitressing job here.

I think its only the same thing if you can't live off your base salary unless you get the commission . I think maybe car salesmen and such get paid that low, but most professional sales jobs have a base that a person could live off of. ( in my area its around 30-35k) if need be. A waiter could never live off of what ever 2 dollars per hour comes to.

 

[Alesia]

Sorry but a commission is completely different from a tip. From the buyers standpoint he is given a price for a product, he doesn't care if the bulk of the money goes to the company, the salesman or the gardener, doesn't matter. From the salesman's perspective he knows exactly what he gets off a sale. If he knows or believes he can make sales he knows what percent he is going to get. Now a server is going work period and has no right to expect anything when they serve a table... the key difference is that a tip is completely arbitrary, a commission is a known amount with only the actual sale being unknown.

As a consumer, I'm not sure why you prefer a commission to a tip. A tip actually benefits the customer more than a commission does, because the customer is the one ultimately in control of the amount of the tip. That puts the server in the position of having a vested interest in making you happy. A salesman working on a commission only has a vested interest in getting you to spend more money. I know because I've done both.

As a server, I don't really care how much money you spend, because I know that the people who spend the most on food aren't necessarily the ones that tip the most. I want people to feel like they're getting a good value.

Sales is a completely different animal. There is an enormous amount of pressure to up-sell, whether it's in the customer's best interest or not.

And you're wrong that good servers have no right to expect a tip. Tips are expected and that's just how it's done in this society. Maybe someday the people who think the way you do will get your way and tips will be abolished. If that happens you can expect a major (much more than 20%) increase in restaurant prices and a decline in service as well.

 

[Chris the CPA]

I did not say it was your problem..the point I was making is that this policy is UNFAIR to hard working servers that lazy ones get the same cut. Whoever came up with this pooled tipping thing has obviously never worked in a tipped position.

The company uses it to pay the hostess and busboys the tipping wage since they get "tips". I think that tip share is wrong.

 

[KCMiller]

As a consumer, I'm not sure why you prefer a commission to a tip. A tip actually benefits the customer more than a commission does, because the customer is the one ultimately in control of the amount of the tip. That puts the server in the position of having a vested interest in making you happy. A salesman working on a commission only has a vested interest in getting you to spend more money. I know because I've done both.

As a server, I don't really care how much money you spend, because I know that the people who spend the most on food aren't necessarily the ones that tip the most. I want people to feel like they're getting a good value.

Sales is a completely different animal. There is an enormous amount of pressure to up-sell, whether it's in the customer's best interest or not.

And you're wrong that good servers have no right to expect a tip. Tips are expected and that's just how it's done in this society. Maybe someday the people who think the way you do will get your way and tips will be abolished. If that happens you can expect a major (much more than 20%) increase in restaurant prices and a decline in service as well.

This. And not ONLY this. Tips ARE expected in restaurants, and here's why - the servers are TAXED as if they did receive the tips. Say they sell $1000 worth of product in a night. They are taxed, by the federal government, as if they received $150 in tips. Whether or not they did. So when you stiff a server, what you're really doing in stealing from them, plain and simple. And yeah, blah blah the system is wrong, blah blah they should be paid a living wage, blah blah. Guess what? The system is what it is. And when you enter a restaurant, you're agreeing to the system that's IN PLACE.

Unless a server does something totally egregious (like be outright rude), I always tip 15%. If I find myself wanting to drop their tip amount, it's my responsibility to talk to a manager, because if they were that crappy of a server, the management should know - my leaving a rotten tip will just get ME a bad rep, not the server. If they do something above and beyond, I tip more. I'm not the Shah of Persia, or some celebrity, and I don't need them to bow and scrape, just politely take my order and bring me my food. It's an agreement I make when I walk into a restaurant - they'll be polite and bring me food that is well prepared, and I'll honor the reality of a 15% addition to my check. Anything else is just plain wrong.

(stepping off my soapbox, and returning to your regular programming)

KC

 

[TinkPirateMom]

Just for fun...

Do you tip your mechanic? They provide a service and making sure a vehicle is safe is more important (IMHO) than how your hair or nails look. Perhaps they need tips too...

Actually, I have done this in the past and I don't think it's all that out of the ordinary.

I can't afford BMW, so I don't drive one.
By this example I mean to say I don't follow what this has to do with this thread? If your implying I can't afford the activities I listed like going to restaurants, buying coffee, staying at hotels and getting massages, I'm afraid your incorrect.

I "can" afford to give 200% tips, however if I started living like that I would be a fool and you know what they say about a fool and their money.

If they started charging 7 dollars a gallon for gas I could afford that to, but i would be writing a thread about how outrageous that is and wanting to hear what others have to say about it.

I'm not picking on you at all , I'm glad you shared your opinion with me and thank you! I just want to understand more what you mean. I'm talking about what I think the cost of something should be ( the something is gratuity) not how much of something, I ,you, or anyone else can afford.

You know you are right, my original response did not make a ton of sense so for that I apologize. I guess it is difficult for me to wrap my head around someone not tipping or not tipping customary amounts if they can afford the the service and the tip. I guess I come from a different frame of mind because in my head I just think of the tip as part of the total cost of the service I am willingly choosing to have done.

I guess if someone just automatically thinks of the tip as part of the total cost then it doesn't cause any feelings of resentment towards the service provider or their employers the way so many in this thread feel (not directed at OP).

Constantly having this discussion where I work... there are those in the office that continually harp on the fact that I don't give 20% or more like they do when they take clients out... I always hear the rationale that the waiter isn't making minimum wage... and I always explain, that if the waiter was willing to take a job that paid less than minimum wage then that was his decision. I didn't tell him to take the job and by tipping I'm enabling someone to make a dumb decision. You want more money, work hard in school and get a good job that pays well... but when you look at the amount of money a waiter in some places would make if everyone tipped 20%... well I'm sorry but no one simply hauling food and drinks back and forth across a 50 foot distance should make that much.... and for those upset with the 18% gratuities that place like to tack on for large groups. You don't have to pay them. I've had them try to pull the BS on me before and I've always had them removed.

I guess you never thought that many of those servers are working hard and putting themselves though school? I guess you also haven't realized than many new college graduates cannot find jobs that pay well in this economy so they may have to stay at the job that put them through college for longer than expected?

Why not do away with tipping and just have the business adjust their prices accordingly and have them pay the salary for their employees?

I have considered this and am not against it personally but I do think it would cause many dining establishments to close down because they would have to raise their prices by at least 20% and price increases in this economy are not going over well so they would lose customers with such a price hike.

I agree that teachers and LEOs are underpaid. However, nurses aren't highly paid either. In some areas, they are even very underpaid. I'm a nurse in a hospital & I'm not severely underpaid, but I'm not highly paid either.

I could move, travel or work strikes & make a six figure income, but that's not conducive to my family's lifestyle right now. That's my choice. Just like others choose their employment based on their skill set & lifestyle needs.

I think that teachers, nurses, LEO's, and emergency personnel deserve respect and hazard pay in certain situations. However, around here I wouldn't say they are underpaid. Those are some of the better paying jobs here. My BFF is a nurse for 2 12 hour shifts a week and makes the same as my other BFF that's a teacher. It's decent money. They deserve it. My DH is police officer and of course I would love it if he made more but I wouldn't say he is underpaid. I would say that some customer service professionals are underpaid especially for the crap that they have to put up with.

As a server I can tell you that the attitudes seen here aren't the norm. 99% of my customers are extremely nice and tip within the expected range. I love my job. Every once in a while I get rude customers and/or customers who don't tip well - that's life. But don't think for a minute that I don't remember them, and if I'm busy and have to choose who's going to get the best service between someone who tips well and someone who doesn't, well, who do you think I choose?

I am so glad that you do not see have to deal with these types of attitudes on a regular basis. It is nice to hear that your customers have better attitudes about their service providers. I am sure you are a great server!

I just got back from a hot date with my awesome husband For dessert, we swung into Cold Stone, which we love but don't get very often.

As we're paying, I look down and lo and behold, there's a tip jar next to the register.

A tip jar. At Cold Stone. And I'm thinking, "This is a bit too far."

I always tip at Cold Stone. They sing a song and my son likes it, lol.

It is a fallacy that servers do not recieve minimum wage. Yes their "base" hourly wage is sub-minimum and tips are expected to make up the difference. BUT if for whatever reason the server does not make enough in tips to bring them to minimum wage their the employeer MUST pay the server the difference to bring them to minimum wage.

Now I live in California and servers are paid at least minimum wage so any tips they are given are above and beyound this.

Not exactly. Many restaurants have ways around this. For example, some restaurants have the computer systems automatically set so that a server has to claim at least 10% of their sales. If someone had a really crummy night with poor tips and then had to tip out to others in the restaurant that server may not have made 10% of their sales but the system says they are so the restaurant does not have to pay anything. I'm sure other restaurants have other ways around it as well.

I have been trying to avoid responding to this post because of the way some of you feel about first time posters in a subject like this, but as I was driving around delivering pizzas tonight, thinking of some of the previous responses, I felt the need to respond.
I do not care if you tip or not, you will get the same service from me regardless. I do take issue with the thought that people take these jobs because they are unskilled and cannot do any better. I work at a well-known pizza delivery place. Everyone with the exception of a couple of high school kids have College degrees and at least one other full time “educated job”. I choose to work there because I enjoy it most of the time and I earn enough money to take my family to fun places like Disney World 3 or 4 times a year without dipping into our savings or emergency funds. There are 2 teachers that I work with, 1 Postal Worker, and various construction workers and other skilled laborers. They supplement their incomes for whatever reason.
As far as delivery fees, at the place I work they charge $1.99 per delivery. Drivers get .75 of that. I tend to agree with others that it should not be charged if it does not go to the drivers but those decisions are made at a cooperate level. It is my understanding that the saying on the side of the box, “delivery fee is not a tip”, is due to a class action law suit brought about by drivers from all over the country because people assumed the drivers were getting the whole fee.
The purpose of this post is not to judge anyone for their choice to tip or not. Please, just do not judge your servers without knowing their situations. It could be your kid’s teacher, your Mailman, or the nurse at your local hospital.

Thank you for posting. It has been my experience as well that many servers and delivery people are working that position as a second job and are well educated hard-working people.

ok, so i'm curious. why do people take jobs where they Have to rely on someone tipping them to make money ? i know times are hard but, even when times were better, i don't see how you do it. never knowing what you'll make or not make or having to smile and kiss butt all day in hopes of getting a nice tip. i'm not trying to offend anyone i'm just curious as to why you do it. i'm not much on tipping cause the way i look at it is i have to pay the high price for whatever i am having done to the store, and then its expected i give the stores employee some money also.

It is a difficult job and not everyone is cut out for it. It can be rewarding or when you come up against people with certain attitudes that make you feel like you are beneath them it can be a degrading position. Some choose the job because they enjoy it (many outgoing personalities), some are working their way through school and being a server offers a bit more flexible scheduling to work around classes. Others do it because they can work the opposite shift of a spouse and reduce child care costs. Some get into it because they think they will make a ton of money and do not realize how difficult the work is and how you do not always get paid an amount that you think yo deserve given the amount of hard work put in. There is a very high turnover rate in restaurants.

Actually the faulty philosophy is on the servers side. Don't take a job unless you are willing to accept the pay and feel that it is fair with no tips at all. To take a job and know that you will only make enough money if everyone tips is foolish.

Servers have to assume they will make their money from tips or no one would become a server for $2.13/an hour.

Well, I can only answer for my self, but I wait tables because I love it. I don't have to wait tables - I actually have an engineering degree. But I hated engineering.

Waiting tables, I get the chance to meet new people every day, and forge relationships with my regular customers. I love that my schedule is fairly flexible and allows me to be spend time with my family. The best part for me, though, is the fact that - to a large degree - I'm in control of how much money I make. Since we don't pool our tips where I work, the servers who work harder make more money than those who don't.

At my last job, we all made basically the same amount whether we worked hard or we spent all day talking to our friends on the phone. I just got tired of it. Now, if there's a server not pulling her weight, she's only hurting herself.

As far as the pay being unpredictable, you're right - it is. But I generally have a good idea of how much I'll make in a night. Every once in a while, you give someone great service and they give to a terrible tip. It sucks, but you just chalk it up to them being jerks and get on with it. And before anyone freaks out, yes, we're all aware that some people just don't know any better, but don't think for a moment that we can't tell the difference. And yes, sometimes people are just plain rude, but fortunately those people are few and far between. I've only had one table in the last year that was truly awful.

I will say that in real life I have never encountered the elitist attitudes that I've seen from some in this thread. Every single one of my customers seems to understand that we are just regular people trying to earn a living. They know that we aren't uneducated or unskilled. We are professionals who deserve to be treated with respect.

Thank you for giving a voice to the servers out there and doing so in a kind and intelligent way.

It's the same thing as taking a position where most of your salary is on commission. Yes, it's a gamble, but many people in sales make a lot of money, yet some don't. Where I live, servers don't make much more than $2 an hour (and we have a VERY high COL). We have tons of restaurants, and therefore, many servers. I've done it, and it's hard work, but usually the generous tippers will compensate for the cheapskates.

Does anyone think $2.13 an hour is a fair wage? In this economy, good luck even finding a waitressing job here.

I think it is very similar to those working for a commission.

Sorry but a commission is completely different from a tip. From the buyers standpoint he is given a price for a product, he doesn't care if the bulk of the money goes to the company, the salesman or the gardener, doesn't matter. From the salesman's perspective he knows exactly what he gets off a sale. If he knows or believes he can make sales he knows what percent he is going to get. Now a server is going work period and has no right to expect anything when they serve a table... the key difference is that a tip is completely arbitrary, a commission is a known amount with only the actual sale being unknown.

Consumers do not care about commission when they are buying a product? Why do consumers haggle with salespeople to get the price down then? They are essentially lowering the salesperson's commission by doing that. So it is not always a known.

And I thought I multi-quoted someone else who mentioned that those that work on commission are also making a base salary of around $30,000.00.That is not the case. Off the top of my head I can think of two instances where it is definitely not the case. One is travel agents. While some that work for the big chains are making a small salary, the large majority of travel agents make absolutely no salary and work solely on commission. Another instance is real estate agents, no salary just commission.

 

[MarineVet]

Not agreeing or disagreeing with the, "It's just sad..." portion of the above - but what 'it took' was the note - not the tip; and the $15 goes to the hotel, not the housekeeper.

I realize the housekeeper does not get the $15. My point in mentioning it is that the extra money should cover the fact we need a third cup and glass and an extra towel for that third person. The money should cover the additional cost of the washing of those items, handling them etc. It was not like we were asking SOG to provide items without paying for the related expense.

I worked at a Days Inn hotel near Washington DC years ago. We had a system that let housekeeping know how many people were going to be in the room so they could provide those extra items automatically. At least after the first night, that figure should be provided to housekeeping. The second time we stayed at SOG, we had to phone the desk each and every evening to request the items. Then someone from housekeeping had to make a special trip to our room each and every evening. For the last trip, we tried the "$2 per day and request on a note" method, and the housekeeper made it happen. When I asked about this at the front desk, the clerk said an extra towel and cup were considered "a special request" and SOG would TRY, but it was not guarenteed they could "honor that request".

 

[disneychrista]

ok, so i'm curious. why do people take jobs where they Have to rely on someone tipping them to make money ?

Because they usually make a lot more than they would working at a minimum wage job. I have worked in a tipped position where I made just as much in tips as I did in my $8/hr wage. So I essentially made $16+/hr. And this was in a very slow establishment. Even if a server has 4 tables/hr and they receive $5 from each table, they are making $20/hr + wages. If they then have to tip out 10% to the busboy, hostess, etc, they are still making $18/hr + wages.

Not exactly. Many restaurants have ways around this. For example, some restaurants have the computer systems automatically set so that a server has to claim at least 10% of their sales. If someone had a really crummy night with poor tips and then had to tip out to others in the restaurant that server may not have made 10% of their sales but the system says they are so the restaurant does not have to pay anything. I'm sure other restaurants have other ways around it as well.

This does not change thier legal obligation to ensure that the servers are receiveing at least minimum wage. The government (IRS) assumes that the servers are recieving at least 8%.

 

[scrapquitler]

I take issue with this, I never have understood why someone with money has to give that money to someone else because they don't have money? Should my boss pay me more because he makes 300,000 grand a year and I make 60,000? Or should he pay me what I'm worth based on the value I bring to the table? I don't tip extra because someone is impoverished , again I tip based on the service I get. Honestly that would prob be a more valuable lessen the to the "college kid" than any tip amount.

.

Wait a minute, I don't think that's enough. Here's a coule more:


If I Earn it, I should be able to keep it. If you want more money, you should go out and earn more. If I worked harder for my $100,000 salary, it doesn't mean I should give some of it to you because you only earned $25,000.

If everyone who doesn't have as much keeps getting from those who do have more, where's the incentive for anyone to try harder?? The person who works hard and has more then gets it taken away (or is forced to give it away) is not going to feel motivated to work hard to earn more. Likewise, the person who has the low salary is not going to be movtivated to work harder and get a better job/work longer hours, etc because they don't need to if stuff is just GIVEN to them.

Thus, pooled tips are bad, forced % tipping is bad. There's no motivation for servers to work harder and do a good job in either of those cases.

 

[burnurcomputer]

This thread has gone WAY off track. Its not that people don't tip as is expected, but rather that we are tired of over tipping and how it is becomming expected in service areas that would have never of had it before.

I will say it again, I am tired of tipping for a point of service job. I expect that the service you provide meet the general criteria for preformance. That doesn't make me cheap, it doesn't mean that I don't do it. It means that I am tired of the expectation that I tip because it has become the norm.

 

[thomas998]

If I can't tip on the full price of a service, I don't use it even with a hefty discount. It is not the worker's fault if management sells a bunch of discount gift certificates in order to increase traffic. That one hour massage took them just as much time and effort that they would have spent on a full paying customer. Do you think that it's okay to only tip on the adult meal when the restaurant advertises free kids' meals? Same thing!

Sorry but you are enabling companies to offer those discounts. If I pay $100 for something and feel I need to tip for what I got I don't care if the supposed price was $1000, I would only do the $100.... Retail or full prices are often just mythical prices that no one ever actually pays (not so much when it comes to food, but clearly in other areas) do you think a waiter carrying two adult meals to your table is actually performing a huge new task when they slips a plate of macaroni and cheese on the tray with the regular food? Would that worker be better off if he had no tables with anyone or tables with the kids giving smaller tips? When a business offers special discounts it isn't because they already have more demand than they can cover its because they are trying to increase business.

In the end the only tip I would give people working for places that underpay and tell the workers to make up the difference in tips is this, "get a job somewhere else." No one forces anyone to take a job, that is called slavery. If someone doesn't like the amount of money they are making they don't have to keep the job... pretty simple really.

 

[thomas998]

I guess you never thought that many of those servers are working hard and putting themselves though school? I guess you also haven't realized than many new college graduates cannot find jobs that pay well in this economy so they may have to stay at the job that put them through college for longer than expected?

Oh I'm well aware that many are putting themselves through school... and what are you tell that person if you are going to try and give them outlandish tips so they make as much money waiting tables as managing a store? You aren't.

And when I see a college graduate that can't find a job, I don't feel any sympathy at all. In every case where I've heard of friends or family that have little John or Jill getting out of college and not being able to find a job, the facts are the same... Little John or Jill partied in college to the point that their GPA's look like poop, or they decided to get a worthless degree that provided them with no chance of turning it into a job when they graduated... Should I feel bad for someone that had a chance and blew it? Sorry, but I don't. I feel bad for the person that loses their job because a company closes, but not because someone squandered an opportunity.

 

[Irin997]

Oh I'm well aware that many are putting themselves through school... and what are you tell that person if you are going to try and give them outlandish tips so they make as much money waiting tables as managing a store? You aren't.

And when I see a college graduate that can't find a job, I don't feel any sympathy at all. In every case where I've heard of friends or family that have little John or Jill getting out of college and not being able to find a job, the facts are the same... Little John or Jill partied in college to the point that their GPA's look like poop, or they decided to get a worthless degree that provided them with no chance of turning it into a job when they graduated... Should I feel bad for someone that had a chance and blew it? Sorry, but I don't. I feel bad for the person that loses their job because a company closes, but not because someone squandered an opportunity.

Wow....really? It might not have anything to with the fact that our economy has been in the toilet for a couple of years now?

 

[WheelCEO]

 

[BlueChariot]

No one forces anyone to take a job, that is called slavery. If someone doesn't like the amount of money they are making they don't have to keep the job... pretty simple really.

While this is true, if everyone thought the same way there would be no service industry because no one would be willing to take a tipped job.

Of course the way around this is not to have a separate minimum wage for tipped employees, and in fact, some states minimum wage laws do a pretty good job of leveling the playing field a bit. If I remember correctly, only about 10 - 15 states have tipped employee minimum wages at the federal level (i.e. $2.13 / hour). Most states, including Florida, are more than that.

 

[Irin997]

Thank you, will definitely keep that in mind!!!

 

[nunzia]

It is a fallacy that servers do not recieve minimum wage. Yes their "base" hourly wage is sub-minimum and tips are expected to make up the difference. BUT if for whatever reason the server does not make enough in tips to bring them to minimum wage their the employeer MUST pay the server the difference to bring them to minimum wage.

Now I live in California and servers are paid at least minimum wage so any tips they are given are above and beyound this.

..and of course they have to prove this...and the IRS has gotten their sticky fingers in there, figuring out how much, minimum, servers owe on taxes based on restaurant sales...
In NM minimum wage for servers is 2.15 (or was when I owned my restaurant). As a long time server, I loved what I did and always made decent money..and to the fellow who thinks serving is easy I suggest he try it