Tipping out of control?

[dana0069]

To the melody of "zippity do-da zippity-day"

Zippity -do-da zippity-day..my oh my I'm not tipping to-day...

Plenty of money heading my way...thats because i'm not tipping today..

sorry i just couldn't contain myself....

One last word.....remember: In most cases, TIPPING is OPTIONAL.
regardlesss of what these people are saying, IT IS OPTIONAL..!
and if you do decide to tip..the PERCENTAGE is up to you..its YOUR choice not theirs.

What are my chances of getting a BIG 'OL group HUG..???
love always, Dana0069

 

[fac]

Originally posted by hockey mom
Fac- tipping the extras I already mentioned is standard practice at just about every chain of restaurants here in Ontario. I previously worked at a chain that would compare to a Red Lobster(which also has this policy here), and the amount I HAD to tip out was 2% of my total sales, not total tips. If you go up a few levels the percentage goes up. This rule is not open to negotiation because servers will try to undertip everyone that has helped them that night. At the Casino I am currently at it is 2% to the bartender.

The negotigation is between the employer and the employee not a rule for the customer. For example, if you makes zero tips for the day, but they policy is that you still have to tip 2% of the total sales to the bartender, shouldn't you bring it to the management?
It is because either a policy is not working, an assumption (that people will tip) is wrong. Either the owner will have to pay everyone or that (good) people will quit because it cannot retain talent. Apparently, the policy is working because most people do tip, but is it the customer's responsibility to make sure the policy work? if they don't, they will be cursed at. I honestly do not think it is the responsibility of the customer and it is a reason tipping is out of control (not the tips cups in counter services or the micky card from mousekeeping, but why shouldn't they? The practice in the restaurant makes tipping not "an option")

If someone does not like the current system in place I think they should go higher up to have it changed but in the mean time do not take your frustrations out on the poor soul who got stuck serving you.

from what I saw it is the other way round, I saw mean comment towards people who don't tip, rather than bringing it up the food chain in their own organization. I assume when people takes a job, there is an expectation on earning, if it does not meat the expectation, it is something between the employer and the employee.

BTW, I still do tip the 15%, but after reading some of these discussions, I need help to convince myself that it is reasonable.
From what I saw, tipping is just to offset the owner's expenses. Let the owner to decide either take a lower profit or raise the price of the food (or add service charge).

 

[jann1033]

i wish i lived in the same world as some of thes posters where everything works out nice and fair but in the world i live in, if i don't want to give the % of tips to the other staff members when that is company policy ( which wouldn't be fair to them)or want irs to relaize and adjust cause I get less than 15% in tips ...too bad for me! who has that much power over their job much less the irs..

customer's bill= $100
tip of 15%= $15

I pay tax on 15 dollars i actually got ( my tax bracket has nothing to do with it as i still pay tax on income unless someone knows a legal way not to pay income tax)

customer's bill = $100
tip of $0 because customer is cheap, wants to make a point, what ever

I still pay tax on $15 but did not get the $15( no matter what bracket i am in, same as other ie) if i am a lousy server that is my fault , if someone wants to go out to dinner where they can't afford and stiff the waitress that is not my fault but it still hurts my pocket.

the server is still paying tax on money they did not receive ...any who do not have a problem with that should give their employer back a % of each pay check but still pay the tax on that amount cause basically that is what is happening to the waitress.

 

[wasabi girl]

Gee...what a hot topic! My DH and I have a full service restaurant and we also agree that it shouldn't really be the customers responsibility to pay wages of the servers. So our servers are paid regular minumum wage (not the server minimum wage)...with all of the matching taxes we have pay for each employee it works out to be quite an expense to bear. For us this is big. We are a very small business.
Our servers then pool all of their tips and they are evenly divided at the end of the night. Everyone takes care of all of the customers...it works for us. That said. Tipping in our town is so poor that I do not know how regular "tipped" servers survive.

I wonder if anyone knows when it became legal in the US to pay "tipped" positions less than other jobs? In Europe and other places it is my understanding that all servers are paid the same wages as other positions, and tipping really is "a tip" and not their actual pay.

 

[fac]

Originally posted by jann1033


I still pay tax on $15 but did not get the $15( no matter what bracket i am in, same as other ie) if i am a lousy server that is my fault , if someone wants to go out to dinner where they can't afford and stiff the waitress that is not my fault but it still hurts my pocket.

the server is still paying tax on money they did not receive ...any who do not have a problem with that should give their employer back a % of each pay check but still pay the tax on that amount cause basically that is what is happening to the waitress.

May be it is me and I do not get it. I do not see how you can pay tax on income that you do not have. In the worse case, I can see that it may have been withheld (even on potential/projected income) but shouldn't it be legally be refunded?

Hypothetically, if a waiter were paid $2 per hour and if some reasons for the full year he does not receive any tips, but the total bills for all his customers comes to $10,000, and assuming he worked 1880 hours, that means he will receive from the restaurant $2 * 1800 = $3760, the calculated tips is $10000 * 0.15 = 1500, Are you saying that he will pay tax on the $5260 "taxable" income ?

Now I know it won't happen as he will have some tips, but I just cannot see how he will pay the tax on income that he does not earn.

I have seen arguments from "it is hard work", "waiter are losing money to work if people don't tip (or too cheap)". I do not see they are relevant.

 

[jann1033]

yes the irs views you as having received tips equal to 15% of whatever amount of money the meals you served took in. so if i serve $100 of meals according to the irs i received $15 worth of income from those meals( 15% of 100, not including any actual wage, just tips) i might have only received ( if i have had the misfortune of waiting on some on this thread) $2 in tips for that $100 in meals but the irs says i need to pay them tax on the full $15 they "say" that i "should have made" so since i did not make $15, I only made $2 so i am paying tax on $13 i never received.

i know many waitresses make lots more on tips than what would equal 15% and am sure some don't declare it all( worked as waitress long ago and know they didn't then and sure some get around it now also) but the fact is if i do not leave at least 15% i "am" costing them money since they will be paying taxes on the 15% the government "says" i left them. if enough people do that it can add up. they won't get it refunded just becasue they didn't make it, they consider the 15% earnings. since it's cash you couldn't prove you got less than that.

some who might not reach into your pocket and rob you think nothing of picking your tip up off the table or leaving the bill unpaid( some places the waitress has to pay that bill) or other dishonest things. not leaving a tip isn't really dishonest like that but is defintely not a nice thing to do if the server has been a decent hard working person who deserves to get paid for their hard work. if you don't want to tip don't eat someplace where tipping is part of the servers livelyhood.

 

[dana0069]

Wasabi girl,

you own a resturaunt right?
just curious on what your reaction/or your husbands would be, if you caught one of your servers telling one of your customers that if they don't tip...go somewhere else to eat..or because the customer didn't tip..one of your servers spit in the customers food?

just wondering?

 

[wmarsich]

From a recent editorial in "The Arizona Republic"

In Quentin Tarantino's film Reservoir Dogs, a covey of crooks discuss tipping when one of them (Steve Buscemi) says, "I don't tip. I don't believe in it."

"You have any idea what these ladies make?"

"Don't give me that," he replies. "She don't make enough money, she can quit."

His hardhearted attitude is not unique; there are people who begrudge a waitress her tip. There are Internet chat rooms on the subject, where the chintzy participants will prove with intricate logic and obstinacy that tipping is only an enabling behavior that keeps waitresses from demanding better pay.

But the custom of tipping is so entrenched in America, that some jobs, such as waiting tables, can only be sustained with tip money. It's not a question of whether it should be that way, but that it is that way.

At IHOP, as at many restaurants, waitresses earn a standard $2.13 per hour and depend on tips to earn a living wage.

And if a customer leaves no tip, the waiter or waitress loses money on the deal. Regardless of tip amount, the restaurant calculates withholding tax based on 8 percent of the customer's bill and deducts it from the waitress's pay, so that she can wind up paying taxes on non-existent income.

The custom is not going to go away anytime soon: Like the 99 cents at the end of most store or gasoline prices, it gives the illusion that things are cheaper than they are. The menu says $4.99, but in fact, you pay $5.74, if you leave the customary 15 percent tip.

They could charge $5.74 to begin with and pay the wait staff better, but custom and the imperatives of marketing make it more attractive to advertise the lower price.

 

[fac]

Originally posted by jann1033
i know many waitresses make lots more on tips than what would equal 15% and am sure some don't declare it all( worked as waitress long ago and know they didn't then and sure some get around it now also) but the fact is if i do not leave at least 15% i "am" costing them money since they will be paying taxes on the 15% the government "says" i left them. if enough people do that it can add up. they won't get it refunded just becasue they didn't make it, they consider the 15% earnings. since it's cash you couldn't prove you got less than that.

I am not an accountant nor working for the IRS. However, common sense tells me that IRS would not know what you earn, it is the owner of your restaurant reports your "income" to the IRS and in order to cover the fact that you are underpaid, they claims that you have made 15% on the tax. Obviously it is working, because in situations/restaurants where this practice is in place is because the waiter does make at least the 15%. If enough people not paying the 15%, and people are making less than the minimum wages, this practice will not be in place, or they cannot legally report earning that you do not make.
For places that pay the minimum wages or above, it is unlikely for them to add the 15% as the waiter's wages or that they may report a different rate, i.e. it is not the law.

When someone accepts a job, he/she enters an agreement with the owner on providing a service in return for income, as I said before the wages is a negotiation between the employer and the employee. Just because the owner makes a mistake in reporting the income, it is not the customer's responsibility to make sure it is corrected.

I understand people's difficulty and I do not see the practice changed anytime. I think I am arguing for this partly because there are times I do not understand why I continue to pay around 15% even for services that did not deserved except that both the waitstaff and the customers know that tips is "expected" , then come to see some of those mean spirited comments.

Unless it is changed to service charge, tips is an acknowledgement of (good) service, as you can see NY dropped the charges for a man who did not pay the tips even it is listed in the menu. If for some reasons, a waiter is not making "enough" it should be a discussion with the owner. If a customer should not eat in a restaurant because he/she does not plan to pay tips, there should be a sign on the door.

 

[wasabi girl]

Dana0069
If any server ever did anything to a customers food they would be fired. Period. As for telling customers they should eat somewhere else if they don't leave a decent tip...we'd have to talk; the customers, whether or not they tip well, are the reason that they have a job...that is why they are paid a regular wage rather than the 2.13 an hour required by law, so they don't have to depend on their tips.

 

[wasabi girl]

fac
I'm not sure if it is federal or if things vary by state but the IRS assumes tips of 15% of the restaurants sales...which are reported to the IRS. Both the sales and the tips...our accountants handle things so I'm not sure of all details...are taxed. The servers are paid the minimum wage (ours make full minimum wage but elsewhere they make $2.13) and the combined total of the $2.13 and tips must be equal to or greater than regular minimum wage or the owner makes up the difference in their paycheck....I'm not sure how everyone is being taxed on unreceived income...but the IRS does assume tips as being equal to %15 of gross sales.
Our servers pool tips and divide them at the end of the night so it is easy to reort because we know the tip total for each day...not sure how other owners do things maybe they estimate....

 

[fac]

Originally posted by wmarsich
From a recent editorial in "The Arizona Republic"

But the custom of tipping is so entrenched in America, that some jobs, such as waiting tables, can only be sustained with tip money. It's not a question of whether it should be that way, but that it is that way.

Just an observation, it seems to be in agreement with the view of one political party that it is better for the economy if the owner keeps more money.

They could charge $5.74 to begin with and pay the wait staff better, but custom and the imperatives of marketing make it more attractive to advertise the lower price.

or the owner takes less profit.

I do not think I will call someone a crook if they decide not to pay tips. On the otherhand, if a restaurant owner is not making sure his staff getting a reasonable wages sounds like a crook.

In the case for IHOP or other places that have this policy and can get away with lower wages is because the policy is working and people do tip. However, it is not the responsibility for the customer to make sure it works, but I can see people turn their anger towards the customers if they do not tip.

 

[fac]

wasabi girl - thank you for the candid explanation.

While I think it is the owner responsibility to pay the wages (not that we shouldn't pay tips), as indicated in the law that the owner makes up the difference, people may want to, at minimum, look into elfbo's suggestion on the 3.4%.

I think I should retire from this discussion. I have a much better understanding on people's different viewpoint on tipping. Thank you all for the educational discussion.