Tipflation

[gottalovepluto]

we don't tip for stuff like this but i'm in the habit of always asking small buisness owners/private trades people if they would prefer me to pay with cash vs. using plastic so they don't get hit with a fee.

I don't, check or card and if they're cash only I pass. Don't want to give the impression I keep much cash in the house. (A neighbor pulled cash out of a drawer to pay someone who did a fix it job in her home and they came back and burgled the place like a week later. She said in retrospect she knew the moment she reached for the cash she was opening herself up to trouble. If you must pay with cash just make sure you pull it out of your wallet or something so you don't make yourself an attractive target for a later visit.)

 

[Crescent_Lake]

I don't, check or card and if they're cash only I pass. Don't want to give the impression I keep much cash in the house. (A neighbor pulled cash out of a drawer to pay someone who did a fix it job in her home and they came back and burgled the place like a week later. She said in retrospect she knew the moment she reached for the cash she was opening herself up to trouble. If you must pay with cash just make sure you pull it out of your wallet or something so you don't make yourself an attractive target for a later visit.)

I worry about this too. I use Venmo to pay my lawn care guy and the guy who shovels my driveway and sidewalks. Neither can take credit cards and they'd prefer cash but no one needs to know I have cash in the house.

Plus honestly, the whole "we prefer cash" or "we only take cash" thing feels shady to me.

 

[ronandannette]

I do think salaries have increased in the past 100 years.

I was referring to the job of waiting tables. It's pretty much now what it always has been. So why did 10% used to be a reasonable expectation for a tip but now it's 22%?

 

[barkley]

I don't, check or card and if they're cash only I pass. Don't want to give the impression I keep much cash in the house. (A neighbor pulled cash out of a drawer to pay someone who did a fix it job in her home and they came back and burgled the place like a week later. She said in retrospect she knew the moment she reached for the cash she was opening herself up to trouble. If you must pay with cash just make sure you pull it out of your wallet or something so you don't make yourself an attractive target for a later visit.)

I worry about this too. I use Venmo to pay my lawn care guy and the guy who shovels my driveway and sidewalks. Neither can take credit cards and they'd prefer cash but no one needs to know I have cash in the house.

Plus honestly, the whole "we prefer cash" or "we only take cash" thing feels shady to me.

i've never encountered anyone who will ONLY accept cash (that would scream to me to see if they are actualy licensed/bonded). when i offer cash, in most cases it means to pay by check vs. credit or debit card (anything that costs the vendor a fee). both my lawn and pest service offer reduced pricing for this (the glass store we used to do frameless shower doors when we renovated offered a 10% discount for cash vs. a card).

larger actual cash transactions are done at the place of buisness not in my home.

 

[TippyThomas]

I was referring to the job of waiting tables. It's pretty much now what it always has been. So why did 10% used to be a reasonable expectation for a tip but now it's 22%?

I was gonna make a joke about it being the title of the thread, Tipflation, but I get what you're saying.

 

[tvguy]

i've never encountered anyone who will ONLY accept cash (that would scream to me to see if they are actualy licensed/bonded). when i offer cash, in most cases it means to pay by check vs. credit or debit card (anything that costs the vendor a fee). both my lawn and pest service offer reduced pricing for this (the glass store we used to do frameless shower doors when we renovated offered a 10% discount for cash vs. a card).

larger actual cash transactions are done at the place of buisness not in my home.

We have a bakery here that is cash only. He sells out every day well before closing, and he is producing as many products as he can without.....as he puts it....."sacrificing quality." Someone commented, if the product is good enough, you demand whatever payment you will take without fear of losing business.

 

[mylilnikita]

Writing a review for a bad waiter is a mixed bag, especially if the food is very good and the issue was with the service.
People will tolerate sub par service if the food is really good, and hopefully the service will work it way out.
More often than not you will see that bad review for a specific person followed by a bunch of "reviews" about how great they are. So that gets gamed.
Also, its so hard to get staff , so not much will happen unless its a very aggreges situation or maybe a chain restaurant.
I gave up on Yelp many years ago.

BTW - I was talking about people who don't tip in general in the second sentence.

As for the not caring, if its a neighborhood place, or near your work, you probably don't want your neighbors or coworkers knowing you don't tip the wait staff. You also don't want to walk in to a place and the staff know you as the guy that does not tip or have a previous waiter tell your current waiter that you don't tip.

It can be more then just Yelp. I know it hard to believe but usually someone who doesn’t tip no matter what the service isn’t going to care who knows if they don’t tip.
One time I had a guy acquaintance who knew my firmed we would all go out and have separate checks. He would never tip regardless of service. He didn’t care even if we said something to him.

Writing a review for a bad waiter is a mixed bag, especially if the food is very good and the issue was with the service.
People will tolerate sub par service if the food is really good, and hopefully the service will work it way out.
More often than not you will see that bad review for a specific person followed by a bunch of "reviews" about how great they are. So that gets gamed.
Also, its so hard to get staff , so not much will happen unless its a very aggreges situation or maybe a chain restaurant.
I gave up on Yelp many years ago.

BTW - I was talking about people who don't tip in general in the second sentence.

As for the not caring, if its a neighborhood place, or near your work, you probably don't want your neighbors or coworkers knowing you don't tip the wait staff. You also don't want to walk in to a place and the staff know you as the guy that does not tip or have a previous waiter tell your current waiter that you don't tip.

There are more ways then Yelp to tell people about a place these days. And I stand by the people who don’t tip, don’t care even in a small town or they would tip.


I will agree that if a customer or guest acts not great they will be talked about amongst other employees. If an employee talks about a customer to another customer, well I myself wouldn’t think not to great of the employee because they are unprofessional taking about someone to another customer.

I work in the hospitality industry in a very touristy area and we get all kinds of guests.

I used to have a position that people could give tips if they felt like it. I had gotten my share of tips and one time I refused one because of how the guest acted.

 

[tony67]

I don't, check or card and if they're cash only I pass. Don't want to give the impression I keep much cash in the house. (A neighbor pulled cash out of a drawer to pay someone who did a fix it job in her home and they came back and burgled the place like a week later. She said in retrospect she knew the moment she reached for the cash she was opening herself up to trouble. If you must pay with cash just make sure you pull it out of your wallet or something so you don't make yourself an attractive target for a later visit.)

Yeah...I always told my dad to make a big deal about how he had to have me (or someone) go to the bank and get the cash.

Unfortunately he did not listen and the folks that were doing odd jobs for him took a fair amount of cash and gift cards while he was dying. He would just not listen and said you have to trust people. Well its not 1950. One even came back and took all the yard tools. We know who it was, but its hard to prove.

I have no issue with things being cash only as long as the tell you up front.
I at at one place in Portugal who was cash only...pretty much the only place on the street in the main tourist area that was cash only.
Food was ok and the prices were in line with everyone else, but they did not let you know it was cash only.
So as we were eating we saw several tables have issues with paying and thought it odd.
Of course there is a "convenient" ATM in the back of the restaurant so you can use that, with a very high fee.
Luckily, I always plan for that possibility and keep 100 Euro in 20s on me at all times on vacation.

I am more bothered by the push for no cash at all. I had several situations in the last week at places that would not take cash, let alone give a cash discount.

That said, it is really nice to go into a pub in Ireland and tap and pay. Don't have to go home with a pocket full of coins at the end of the night. To bring it back to this thread there is no expectation of a tip - which is also nice. The downside is you have a record of how many pints you had...so you might tell the wife a couple of pints, but the credit card says 7.

 

[tony67]

It can be more then just Yelp. I know it hard to believe but usually someone who doesn’t tip no matter what the service isn’t going to care who knows if they don’t tip.
One time I had a guy acquaintance who knew my firmed we would all go out and have separate checks. He would never tip regardless of service. He didn’t care even if we said something to him.

There are more ways then Yelp to tell people about a place these days. And I stand by the people who don’t tip, don’t care even in a small town or they would tip.


I will agree that if a customer or guest acts not great they will be talked about amongst other employees. If an employee talks about a customer to another customer, well I myself wouldn’t think not to great of the employee because they are unprofessional taking about someone to another customer.

I work in the hospitality industry in a very touristy area and we get all kinds of guests.

I used to have a position that people could give tips if they felt like it. I had gotten my share of tips and one time I refused one because of how the guest acted.

Yeah.. there are other option.. I just don't find it worth it anymore. I had an issues in the past with a boyfriend showing up at another place I frequent, it was obvious from my reviews I was there for the trad session every Sunday, and confronting me for a negative review - so I just don't bother anymore. Had a manager call me at home and yell at me for a bad review.. it was a new place and I sat for an hour waiting for service. After 10 minutes it becomes a jake ... lets sit and wait to see how long it is before we get service.. After an hour we left and wrote a negative review. I spoke to the hostess before I left and let her know I was annoyed, unfortunately I had used my credit card to pay for drinks at the bar before we were seated, so not too hard to get my home number from there. He called the next day and apologized and offered a free meal.. but no way am I going to risk that after the abuse on the phone. just WOW.

Agree about the talking about customers to customers...I'm kind of an odd case in that respect. I've gotten many folks jobs in the bar(s) and I tend to become very friendly with the staff. (yeah I am that guy ) I am often invited out to drink afterwards, or to stay in the bar after closing and hang well they have their shift drink or several, and I've gotten quite a few shift drinks myself. Been invited to cookouts at peoples houses and reciprocated. I was invited to the employee Christmas party and at one place that did not have a Christmas party I had that stuff over to my home pub for the party. It was a small place with a handful of folks.

I've never worked in the industry, but wife and family have (front and back of the house) and I have a decent understand of it. Still its not the quite same if you have not done it yourself - I get that.

 

[LoveDaisy]

I was referring to the job of waiting tables. It's pretty much now what it always has been. So why did 10% used to be a reasonable expectation for a tip but now it's 22%?

When was 10% a reasonable tip? I waitressed in college 25 years ago and the average tip was 20% that I received. I worked at red lobster so it was a chain and not a high end restaurant.

 

[tony67]

When was 10% a reasonable tip? I waitressed in college 25 years ago and the average tip was 20% that I received. I worked at red lobster so it was a chain and not a high end restaurant.

You must have been a very good waitress then, because the standard was 15% for a very long time. Then 18%, Then 20...

During the 1950s, people commonly tipped 10% of the bill.
By the 1970s and 1980s, that percentage had jumped to 15%.
In 2023, people typically tip anywhere from 15% to 25%.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/01/how...1950s, people commonly,com survey in May 2022.

 

[LoveDaisy]

You must have been a very good waitress then, because the standard was 15% for a very long time. Then 18%, Then 20...

During the 1950s, people commonly tipped 10% of the bill.
By the 1970s and 1980s, that percentage had jumped to 15%.
In 2023, people typically tip anywhere from 15% to 25%.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/01/how-tipping-in-the-united-states-got-out-of-control.html#:~:text=During the 1950s, people commonly,com survey in May 2022.

I worked in the mid 1990s and our tip out amount to the rest of the staff (bartenders, food runners, etc.) was based off 20% of what we sold, which was the expected tip at that time. I will say regulars often tipped more, esp at the holidays, when I graduated from college and grad school, etc. being under tipped stinks because you still had to tip out at that 20% rate.

Interesting people are talking about tipflation when according to this article the rate has been rising for 40+ years so it’s not new.

 

[tony67]

I worked in the mid 1990s and our tip out amount to the rest of the staff (bartenders, food runners, etc.) was based off 20% of what we sold, which was the expected tip at that time. I will say regulars often tipped more, esp at the holidays, when I graduated from college and grad school, etc. being under tipped stinks because you still had to tip out at that 20% rate.

Interesting people are talking about tipflation when according to this article the rate has been rising for 40+ years so it’s not new.

I think its more a backlash about the tipping spreading to everywhere and it going up what seems to be constantly the last 5 years. On top of that the prices are going up (as I said already I know) because the staff is paid a larger base and the ingredients cost more. So that larger % is on a larger amount, and part of the reason its higher is higher labor costs.

I did speak about this with one my bar tender friends about this issue a month or two ago and he is concerned as tipping has spread everywhere and people are tried of it and he is worried it will eventually change the way things work. He hears lots of complaining from customers about it. When self service checkouts are asking for tips its gone too far IMO.
He is tired of it as well...tipping 1$ for a cup of coffee poured into a glass from a vat, but he gets a $1 to open a bottle so..

In the 90s I recall 20% being very unusual, 15-18 was the standard. My wife worked in the industry for 20 years and would have been thrilled if it was 20% average. Of course there was no alcohol involved in most of the places where she worked. I'm sure she got more than 20% at the bar she worked at, but that was all drinks and almost no food.

That tip out is ridiculous - assuming 20% of sales... just wow. Did they do that with allocated tips for tax purposes as well? Most would not like that. Maybe in a very big city like New York.

I recall the allocated tips being 10% back then to account for those that did not tip, but there was no tip out enforced.
Most places I know the tip out is more of an honor system, which is a real problem as well.
In one situation I am very familiar with over the last few months.
They don't tip out the kitchen staff at all, just the runners. There is just one runner and they are also a bar back for the most part.
So one waitress will throw the runner $5 and another $25 - they probable made about the same so....something is not right
Worse is the bartenders - one will tip out anywhere from 50-100 on a busy night, the other is 10 or 20 - and that is it. They make the exact same since they pool the tips at the bar. It's a situation that is probable going to explode pretty soon.

 

[LoveDaisy]

@tony67

Yes, we paid taxes on that 20%, it is what the parent company of red lobster submitted on tax forms plus the $2.50 an hour we made. We weee told this was how corporate ran all their restaurants.

It’s why I moved to bartending, better tips, no tip out and I worked for a locally owned place who put 10% as the rate on our tax items.

I agree tipping at non tipped roles has increased but at least by me waitresses do not make minimum wage and I will continue to tip around 25% for good service at a sit down restaurant.

 

[Moliphino]

In the 90s I recall 20% being very unusual, 15-18 was the standard. My wife worked in the industry for 20 years and would have been thrilled if it was 20% average. Of course there was no alcohol involved in most of the places where she worked. I'm sure she got more than 20% at the bar she worked at, but that was all drinks and almost no food.

I didn't start paying at restaurants until the early 2000s and I remember my parents telling me that 15% was normal.

 

[mjkacmom]

I was referring to the job of waiting tables. It's pretty much now what it always has been. So why did 10% used to be a reasonable expectation for a tip but now it's 22%?

Hmm, I’m 56 and it was always 15%, never 10%, and in spite of the shiny new tablets businesses now have, I don’t think anyone thinks that average tips should be 20%+. These new devices really bunch up a lot of panties.

 

[bakerworld]

we don't tip for stuff like this but i'm in the habit of always asking small buisness owners/private trades people if they would prefer me to pay with cash vs. using plastic so they don't get hit with a fee.

We gave a check but he wasn't the owner so = tip.

 

[tasha99]

Hmm, I’m 56 and it was always 15%, never 10%, and in spite of the shiny new tablets businesses now have, I don’t think anyone thinks that average tips should be 20%+. These new devices really bunch up a lot of panties.

It would have been 10% in your memory if you were 76 instead of 56 though. I have to nudge my dad to tip more or just make the tip myself when we go out, because he still thinks 10% is what it should be. The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree, since I tip 15% (I'm 57).

 

[Babs Johnson]

I think 10% was still the norm in the 1970s and even into the early 80s.

 

[ford family]

I think 10% was still the norm in the 1970s and even into the early 80s.

It's still the norm in the UK.

ford family