Times poll: 75% blame Bush’s policies for deterioriating economy

[bicker]

You don't need proof.

Objective proof is always necessary if you want to convince 75% of the people that you're right and they're wrong.

 

[Charade]

%s of %s don't make much sense. I wouldn't want you negotiating wage increases for me. I think most people would realize that 6% of a number is higher amount then 5% of a number.

I think it does when your talking about an increase or decrease in tax rates. It shows the effect of the change.

If your state has a 1 percent sales tax and they they jump it to 2 percent, that's a 100 percent increase in the tax rate. So if I was paying one cent on the dollar, now I'm paying 2 cents on the dollar. The amount of sales tax is now double and so is the amount I pay. The rate went up to 1 percent but the effect is a 100 percent increase in outlay.

If the state wanted to increase the sales tax revenue by 20 percent, the new rate would now be 1.2 percent. The rate went up .2 percent but the effect is 20 percent increase in revenue.

And of course you understand our tax code well enough that you realize that the top brackets also receive the tax cuts of the lower brackets?


I'll let you in on a little secret. Rich people pay the lion's share of the tax burden because they have the lion's share of the money. It has nothing to do with tax brackets

I could be paying a 99% tax rate and bill gates could have a 1% tax rate and he's still paying the lions share of taxes.

It's not a secret to me. I also realize that a large percentage of workers don't pay any taxes (income) and some even get a "refund" of taxes they didn't even pay. If you want to talk about secrets, that's a dirty little secret that not many people know about.

 

[minnie61650]

Just an FYI:

President Clinton also thinks President Bush played a pretty large part in the current ression.

Clinton gave Obama's start an "A" grade, while blaming his predecessor President George W. Bush in large part for the economic collapse.

"I personally believe, based on my experience over the years with the economy, that if we moved aggressively on this home problem a year and a half ago, even a year ago, as much as 90 percent of the current crisis could have been avoided," he said.

Link:

http://news.aol.com/main/obama-pres...e/352610?icid=200100397x1218827735x1201258475

 

[Charade]

Of course he does!!

 

[onelilspark]

Well, you could look at it that way but the effect is much different.

Going from 15 to 10 is a 33 percent reduction. Going from 39 to 33 is 11 percent reduction. I think that's how most people would look at it.

And I didn't ignore it the cap gains/div cuts. "Rich" people still pay the lion's share of the tax burden.

Not to mention those in the higher tax brackets are paying the "alternative minimum tax."

 

[minnie61650]

Just an FYI:

The final deal included a $5.3 billion tax break that allows corporations to speed up deductions for investments in plants and equipment, and another allowing small businesses to deduct business expenditures of up to $250,000 directly from their tax liabilities.

Certain middle-class households that currently aren't hit by the Alternative Minimum Tax -- designed years ago to make sure the rich didn't escape taxation -- will remain shielded. The bill has $69 billion to ensure that for the next year.

Link to full article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123436825805373367.html

 

[Saxsoon]

How does the war in Iraq help the US economy???????

I think Iraq is an exception, but in the case of WWII, it is widely accepted by both liberal and conservative scholars that it was the war, not FDR's policies that healed the Great Depression. FDR's policies are now described as a band-aid, very similar to the stimulus bill.

 

[JCJRSmith]

I haven't read the whole thread, but did anyone besides me notice the date of June 26, 2008 on the article quoted in the original post?

 

[minnie61650]

I haven't read the whole thread, but did anyone besides me notice the date of June 26, 2008 on the article quoted in the original post?

Yes, they did.

 

[corndog]

And I didn't ignore it the cap gains/div cuts. "Rich" people still pay the lion's share of the tax burden.

I'll let you in on a little secret. Rich people pay the lion's share of the tax burden because they have the lion's share of the money. It has nothing to do with tax brackets

I could be paying a 99% tax rate and bill gates could have a 1% tax rate and he's still paying the lions share of taxes.

I'll let you both in on a little secret. After the Bush tax cuts, the rich's share of the total tax burden went up. And not only did their share go up, but it went up 6 times as much as the increase in their share of total income!

 

[Disney Doll]

Objective proof is always necessary if you want to convince 75% of the people that you're right and they're wrong.

Not necessarily. 75% of the people currently believe that President Bush is responsible for this economic crisis, and they required no objective proof to come to that decision.

 

[corndog]

Not necessarily. 75% of the people currently believe that President Bush is responsible for this economic crisis, and they required no objective proof to come to that decision.

Didn't something like 75% of the country also believe that the Republicans controlled the last Congress? I can't remember the exact percentage, but it was definitely a majority.

 

[ntsammy5]

Didn't something like 75% of the country also believe that the Republicans controlled the last Congress? I can't remember the exact percentage, but it was definitely a majority.

Actually I believe a large percentage of Americans also believe that Canada is part of the US - if they've ever heard of Canada in the first place.

 

[corndog]

Actually I believe a large percentage of Americans also believe that Canada is part of the US - if they've ever heard of Canada in the first place.

Are you saying it's not?

 

[ntsammy5]

Are you saying it's not?

 

[SSAVL]

Proof?

I don't necessarily doubt what you're saying, except your saying so without any real reason to believe it, doesn't make any sense.

Im saying to blame Bush is insane.....the man at the top of the ticket just signs his name. We were fine until 06 when the dems won the house ( smoke and mirrors). Bicker, we live in the same state, times are tough and look at what our governor is about to do to us with a gas tax....where is the logic with that?? Its boneheaded policies like this gas tax that prove time and again that the democratic party is out of touch, WAY out of touch!!!

 

[bicker]

Regrettably, I think your comments are nothing but partisan. I supported Paul Celluci, when he was governor, but you could find just as many, if not more, similarly nasty and similarly baseless things to say about Celluci as you're saying, now, about Governor Patrick. What actually is bone-headed is not raising enough money through taxes and fees to cover the costs of running the government. So, while you stand there all high-and-might, condemning and admittedly unpopular move by the governor, why don't you disclose where you'd get that much money to close the budget short-fall? It is easy to throw mud -- making the hard choices is much more difficult.

GWB had the luxury of a budget surplus. He didn't make the hard choices. He took the easy way out, regarding financial issues. He earned the derision of that 75% of Americans.

 

[SSAVL]

Regrettably, I think your comments are nothing but partisan. I supported Paul Celluci, when he was governor, but you could find just as many, if not more, similarly nasty and similarly baseless things to say about Celluci as you're saying, now, about Governor Patrick. What actually is bone-headed is not raising enough money through taxes and fees to cover the costs of running the government. So, while you stand there all high-and-might, condemning and admittedly unpopular move by the governor, why don't you disclose where you'd get that much money to close the budget short-fall? It is easy to throw mud -- making the hard choices is much more difficult.

GWB had the luxury of a budget surplus. He didn't make the hard choices. He took the easy way out, regarding financial issues. He earned the derision of that 75% of Americans.

You have got to be kidding me???? First off, i NEVER supported Weld OR Cellucci, they were both social moderates, so they never got my vote. Second, you DO live here right???? You cant name things right off you head were this state can save $$ NOW?? How many state employees are collecting double or triple pensions?? How many state workers are sleeping 5 hours day in their vehicles?? Why are we the ONLY state not using flagmen, funny, it works in the other 49 states (56 if you are obama). Man, the list is endless....pointing out the obvious is not throwing mud. Defending our totally incompetent governor due to YOUR partisan views is just plain silly!!!! IF Romney was still here, and proposed this gas tax, you would be all over him!!!

 

[bicker]

You have got to be kidding me???? First off, i NEVER supported Weld OR Cellucci

I didn't say you did.

Second, you DO live here right???? You cant name things right off you head were this state can save $$ NOW??

I'm a fiscal conservative.

• FIRST priority is to raise enough revenues to pay the bills.
• SECOND priority is to find ways to cut spending.

It is irresponsible to stop thinking after you fail to get the government to cut costs. If you can't prevail on that issue, you still have to pay the bills. See "FIRST priority".

How many state employees are collecting double or triple pensions??

Are you really suggesting that the state default on its prior obligations? That's mind-blowingly irresponsible.

How many state workers are sleeping 5 hours day in their vehicles??

Do something about it if you really think that there is a significant amount of that. Again, if you can't prevail on that issue, you still have to pay the bills. See "FIRST priority".

IF Romney was still here, and proposed this gas tax, you would be all over him!!!

No I wouldn't. I supported Romney's fiscal policies, 100%. I wanted Romney gone because he opposed same-sex marriage and civil unions, and his position on other social issues.

I'm sorry that you are so distressed by things not going your way.

 

[SSAVL]

I didn't say you did.

I'm a fiscal conservative.

• FIRST priority is to raise enough revenues to pay the bills.
• SECOND priority is to find ways to cut spending.

It is irresponsible to stop thinking after you fail to get the government to cut costs. If you can't prevail on that issue, you still have to pay the bills. See "FIRST priority".

Are you really suggesting that the state default on its prior obligations? That's mind-blowingly irresponsible.

Do something about it if you really think that there is a significant amount of that. Again, if you can't prevail on that issue, you still have to pay the bills. See "FIRST priority".

No I wouldn't. I supported Romney's fiscal policies, 100%. I wanted Romney gone because he opposed same-sex marriage and civil unions, and his position on other social issues.

I'm sorry that you are so distressed by things not going your way.

Its no wonder why people across the country have such a poor opinion of how we handle our state government here!!! I WANTED Romney to stay specifically for his stance on gay marriage. Its embarrassing that we have an activist court forcing laws on us in this state. I wanted Weld and cellucci gone for the same reason, they supported it. Now lets try to set you straight on a few things.. you said about pensions..."Are you really suggesting that the state default on its prior obligations? That's mind-blowingly irresponsible". Default???? Do you have any idea how many people, "retire" then take a job in a library or some facility for 6 months, and end up with a second or third pension as a reward from this crooked state?? No, you are a liberal, you wont see the truth, ok, and....you said about state workers sleeping on the job and paying the bills....Do something about it if you really think that there is a significant amount of that. Again, if you can't prevail on that issue, you still have to pay the bills. See "FIRST priority". .WOW so, if we stop paying these do nothing workers and stop spending money on "waste", we wont have more $$ to pay bills?? That makes quite a bit of sense. Lets try it again.......divert money from waste and spend it on bills......yep, i dont see how anyone would want that.