Tim Tebow

[PeterPan09]

I found this to be an interesting read...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Tim-Tebow-why-the-heck-do-we-hate-him-110211

I've wondered some of those things myself, and I found the article really interesting. I'm the first to condemn people who whine about "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", because there are people around the world who are suffering REAL persecution for their faith. Even with all that, there is something to what she's saying.

From what I know about Tebow, his religion is based in evangelism. Telling other people about it is a pillar of the faith. Yes, people who do that can be overbearing, annoying...pick your adjective. Again, from what I know about his faith, that's something that most other religions don't share or at least not to the same extent. But what if they did? What if he was a member of another belief system? Other than him being a Satanist, I can't imagine that he'd get such a visceral reaction for what he does.

It is interesting to turn the focus around and ask what that means about us instead of him.

 

[Goofyluver]

I found this to be an interesting read...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Tim-Tebow-why-the-heck-do-we-hate-him-110211

I've said, and I'll continue to say on this thread that Tebow's religion has nothing to do with the reason I dislike him. It's the manifestation of his religious choice that causes me pause. I wouldn't care if he chose to endorse Focus on the Family because he was red, purple, Christian, Muslim, male, or blue-eyed. I can disagree vehemently with a person's belief system/faith/whatever without feeling need to claim that I dislike a person. However, I take issue with the action that stems from that belief system.

From your article:

Tebow is proof that God goes comfortably into whatever arena of your life you wish to take Him. I used to work with a great guy, Simon Gonzalez, a very devout Christian, and he prayed before every meal. Others would be killing free press meals and he would stop, bow his head and silently say thanks. He was not making a spectacle of his beliefs. He believed that God deserved thanks for what was before him, and not just when convenient for Simon. And people would squirm — not because what he was doing was wrong but because it was right. It is the same for Tebow.

Yet if others are uncomfortable, either with a person's religion itself, or with the manifestation of a person's belief system, they should say nothing? Why?

Without violating board policies, isn't this what Tebow wants?

 

[PeterPan09]

I've said, and I'll continue to say on this thread that Tebow's religion has nothing to do with the reason I dislike him. It's the manifestation of his religious choice that causes me pause. I wouldn't care if he chose to endorse Focus on the Family because he was red, purple, Christian, Muslim, male, or blue-eyed. I can disagree vehemently with a person's belief system/faith/whatever without feeling need to claim that I dislike a person. However, I take issue with the action that stems from that belief system.

From your article:



Yet if others are uncomfortable, either with a person's religion itself, or with the manifestation of a person's belief system, they should say nothing? Why?

Without violating board policies, isn't this what Tebow wants?

Disagreeing with him for a particular action is one thing-hating him only because of his faith is another. I don't agree with his joining up with FOF either, and I've been clear on that-but that doesn't mean that I think he should be forced into a closet about everything.

Criticize his play, that'll keep you busy-and if you disagree with a choice he made, like the FOF commercial-have at it. But if the ONLY thing you are after this kid about is his faith and the fact that he expresses it, maybe it is something to look at-and I would say the same to anyone who has issues with anyone ONLY about their race, their sexual orientation, their hair color..or any number of other things. I think it's worth asking the question if you would feel the same way if the person was a part of "insert group you like here".

I took the author's story about her fellow writer as an attempt to understand her other co-workers. It was something she witnessed often apparently, and she was trying to understand why his quiet action made so many people uncomfortable. I can't really understand that either. He was just doing his thing, not making anyone else join him or praying in a really loud voice to try and "shame" others...why should that make people uncomfortable?

 

[Goofyluver]

I took the author's story about her fellow writer as an attempt to understand her other co-workers. It was something she witnessed often apparently, and she was trying to understand why his quiet action made so many people uncomfortable. I can't really understand that either. He was just doing his thing, not making anyone else join him or praying in a really loud voice to try and "shame" others...why should that make people uncomfortable?

I suppose the author lost me with this statement...

And people would squirm — not because what he was doing was wrong but because it was right.

And people wonder why folks take issue?

Again, I think we're all trying to be very careful when broaching this subject.

I suppose it goes both ways, though. Tebow doesn't stand out athletically. So, folks bolster his reputation because of his public religious standing. We've seen things on this thread like, "Well, he's such a man of integrity! He stands for what he believes!" Yea, but many say that he ain't that great of a football player.

Yet when others step into the thread and say, "You know, I dislike the man's public display of his faith." Or, like in my case and in the case of others, we may dislike the manifestation of that faith. Well, then we have the folks who say you can't dislike a person because of what they believe.

Why not? Isn't that what the folks who idolize Tebow because of his integrity, or the fact that he displays his faith in such a public manner are dong? Only in the form of support rather than disagreement?

Really...what's the difference?

If we can admire a person for their belief system why is it unacceptable to dislike a person for the same reason?

 

[PeterPan09]

I suppose the author lost me with this statement...



And people wonder why folks take issue?

Again, I think we're all trying to be very careful when broaching this subject.

I suppose it goes both ways, though. Tebow doesn't stand out athletically. So, folks bolster his reputation because of his public religious standing. We've seen things on this thread like, "Well, he's such a man of integrity! He stands for what he believes!" Yea, but many say that he ain't that great of a football player.

Yet when others step into the thread and say, "You know, I dislike the man's public display of his faith." Or, like in my case and in the case of others, we may dislike the manifestation of that faith. Well, then we have the folks who say you can't dislike a person because of what they believe.

Why not? Isn't that what the folks who idolize Tebow because of his integrity, or the fact that he displays his faith in such a public manner are dong? Only in the form of support rather than disagreement?

Really...what's the difference?

If we can admire a person for their belief system why is it unacceptable to dislike a person for the same reason?

I guess because it feels the same to me as someone disliking me only because I'm gay. Being gay is only one part of my life, but people have and probably will continue to dislike me only because of that. I've had people who have liked me a lot until they found out I was gay, and then suddenly I was not someone they wanted to be around anymore. If I insert the word, "Christian", "Jew" or "Muslim" into that story, I would feel the same way about it. It feels wrong to me to pick one aspect of a person's life out as a reason to hate them. YMMV, of course.

 

[Princess Dolly]

I suppose the author lost me with this statement...



And people wonder why folks take issue?

Again, I think we're all trying to be very careful when broaching this subject.

I suppose it goes both ways, though. Tebow doesn't stand out athletically. So, folks bolster his reputation because of his public religious standing. We've seen things on this thread like, "Well, he's such a man of integrity! He stands for what he believes!" Yea, but many say that he ain't that great of a football player.

Yet when others step into the thread and say, "You know, I dislike the man's public display of his faith." Or, like in my case and in the case of others, we may dislike the manifestation of that faith. Well, then we have the folks who say you can't dislike a person because of what they believe.

Why not? Isn't that what the folks who idolize Tebow because of his integrity, or the fact that he displays his faith in such a public manner are dong? Only in the form of support rather than disagreement?

Really...what's the difference?

If we can admire a person for their belief system why is it unacceptable to dislike a person for the same reason?

High School Championship
Two-time Florida's Player of the Year (high school)
Florida's Mr. Football
Parade Magazine Football All American (2006)
Two BCS Championships
Heisman Trophy winner (and a finalist the next year)

And that's just the shortlist of the biggies.

Yep, doesn't stand out athletically AT ALL.

PS - NFL Rookie of the week two times. Again, yeah no skills.

 

[Goofyluver]

I guess because it feels the same to me as someone disliking me only because I'm gay. Being gay is only one part of my life, but people have and probably will continue to dislike me only because of that. I've had people who have liked me a lot until they found out I was gay, and then suddenly I was not someone they wanted to be around anymore. If I insert the word, "Christian", "Jew" or "Muslim" into that story, I would feel the same way about it. It feels wrong to me to pick one aspect of a person's life out as a reason to hate them. YMMV, of course.

Ya' know...when I introduce myself, I've never walked up to someone and said, "Hey, I'm Jen and I'm a lesbian." Funny as it seems, not once. Have you?

If we did, do ya' think folks would accuse us of shoving it down their throats?

High School Championship
Two-time Florida's Player of the Year (high school)
Florida's Mr. Football
Parade Magazine Football All American (2006)
Two BCS Championships
Heisman Trophy winner (and a finalist the next year)

And that's just the shortlist of the biggies.

Yep, doesn't stand out athletically AT ALL.

PS - NFL Rookie of the week two times. Again, yeah no skills.

Honey, I'm just going by what folks have said on the thread. Because really, I couldn't care less.

His athletic prowess wasn't really the point of my post anyway.

 

[PeterPan09]

Ya' know...when I introduce myself, I've never walked up to someone and said, "Hey, I'm Jen and I'm a lesbian." Funny as it seems, not once. Have you?

If we did, do ya' think folks would accuse us of shoving it down their throats?



Honey, I'm just going by what folks have said on the thread. Because really, I couldn't care less.

His athletic prowess wasn't really the point of my post anyway.

No, but I have had people who I was friends with suddenly dump me when they found out I was gay. They liked everything else about me, we liked the same books, movies, had similar senses of humor-but as soon as that aspect of my life was revealed-friendship over.

I don't introduce myself that way, but if someone asks or if the conversation goes in the direction of where it's going to come out-I'm not going to hide it. I don't introduce myself as a Christian either, but I have used similar language as Tebow when talking about something that's happened in my life. I'm often caught thanking Jesus out loud for a job, for wonderful friends, for the strength to deal with my father's declining health...and I imagine that those statements would be found offensive to quite a few people if the Tebow discussion is any indication.

 

[joviroxx]

If we can admire a person for their belief system why is it unacceptable to dislike a person for the same reason?

That's a loaded question, isn't it? Personally, I can relate to people who have my same belief systems and wish to not associate with those that do not. But, I can never say I dislike someone for it. (unless you are trying to hurt those around me and my loved ones)

Now, this can get touchy as we get into an arena of what one can find morally corrupt. Myself, I find it interesting what people choose to use to dislike someone. I found the article to have an different and interesting perspective.

I can admire Tebow for living within his beliefs. I have no issue with his personal decisions on how to live his life. As a football player, well, I think he has defiencies in his passing game and don't know if you can have a QB career with his running abilities. But, he IS winning, you can't argue that.

 

[Princess Dolly]

Ya' know...when I introduce myself, I've never walked up to someone and said, "Hey, I'm Jen and I'm a lesbian." Funny as it seems, not once. Have you?

If we did, do ya' think folks would accuse us of shoving it down their throats?



Honey, I'm just going by what folks have said on the thread. Because really, I couldn't care less.

His athletic prowess wasn't really the point of my post anyway.

I didn't see it that way. You are saying people are holding him up in spite of his athletic skills and just focusing on his religious attributes. Not true at all. I look at him and see a winner and his past proves that. Not that you care but his come back from behind wins started way back in pee wee football. People not believing in his football skills is nothing new either. He changed high school football teams because the one he was with didn't want him to play quarterback. And yet you look at his history and it's full of team wins and individual accolades.

I hate focus on the family, but I can't totally discredit him based on that or his religious beliefs (I don't believe everything he does). I do think his charity work is admirable. The faces on the kids who meet him each week at the football games are incredible. And that's only one brach of his foundation.

Without a doubt though, he is a better role model than most even if one doesn't believe in everything he does.

 

[lillygator]

oh and athletic...you should read about his strength training and see the work ups he did to the draft.

you haters can go on hating him and telling him he can't do it...that only fires him up more.

 

[Goofyluver]

That's a loaded question, isn't it? Personally, I can relate to people who have my same belief systems and wish to not associate with those that do not. But, I can never say I dislike someone for it. (unless you are trying to hurt those around me and my loved ones)

Now, this can get touchy as we get into an arena of what one can find morally corrupt. Myself, I find it interesting what people choose to use to dislike someone. I found the article to have an different and interesting perspective.

I can admire Tebow for living within his beliefs. I have no issue with his personal decisions on how to live his life. As a football player, well, I think he has defiencies in his passing game and don't know if you can have a QB career with his running abilities. But, he IS winning, you can't argue that.

Loaded question or a truthful question?

I'll be frank and say I dismissed the article when I realized the author was in the business of reinforcing Tebow's message.

I didn't see it that way. You are saying people are holding him up in spite of his athletic skills and just focusing on his religious attributes. Not true at all. I look at him and see a winner and his past proves that. Not that you care but his come back from behind wins started way back in pee wee football. People not believing in his football skills is nothing new either. He changed high school football teams because the one he was with didn't want him to play quarterback. And yet you look at his history and it's full of team wins and individual accolades.

I hate focus on the family, but I can't totally discredit him based on that or his religious beliefs (I don't believe everything he does). I do think his charity work is admirable. The faces on the kids who meet him each week at the football games are incredible. And that's only one brach of his foundation.

Without a doubt though, he is a better role model than most even if one doesn't believe in everything he does.

Not really. Regardless of his athletic skills, which even if you look in the post above yours they are in question, people admire him because of his public display of his faith. Yet, when others enter the thread with disagreement, they are chastised. Why? Why is it acceptable to admire one for one's outward faith but unacceptable to disagree with one for the same reason?

We, as parents, also tend to steer our son from choosing role models based on the fact that they play sports.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Ya' know...when I introduce myself, I've never walked up to someone and said, "Hey, I'm Jen and I'm a lesbian." Funny as it seems, not once. Have you?

If we did, do ya' think folks would accuse us of shoving it down their throats?

Aaron Rodgers:

"Well I started playing before Tim, so these are things I've thought about for a long time, and I think one thing that I try to look at when I was a younger player, and I mean, in high school, junior college and Division I, I was always interested in seeing how guys talked in their interviews, talked about their faith, or didn't talk about their faith. And then the reactions at times, I know Bob Costas at one point was critical about a player thanking Jesus Christ after a win, questioning what would happen if that player had lost, or do you really think God cares about winning and losing.

"I feel like my stance and my desire has always been to follow a quote from St. Francis of Assisi, who said, 'Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.' So basically, I'm not an over-the-top, or an in-your-face kind of guy with my faith. I would rather people have questions about why I act the way I act, whether they view it as positive or not, and ask questions, and then given an opportunity at some point, then you can talk about your faith a little bit. I firmly believe, just personally, what works for me, and what I enjoy doing is letting my actions speak about the kind of character that I want to have, and following that quote from St. Francis.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/12/05/Week13/index.html#ixzz1fmGrVll6 (see page 5).

Aaron is more along my style as far as how I personally share my faith. But I understand Tebow, because it's a big part of the Evangelical church. It's not my way of expressing my faith, but I understand why he does it.

I guess disliking Tebow because of this would be like disliking, say, Jehovah Witnesses that come by the door every Saturday, for example.

At least with Tebow, all you have to do is change the channel. With the Jehovah Witnesses, you have to hide and not answer the door.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

I'm from NC, we've had Fox here for 9 years. This is the epitome of "FOXBALL."

Run the ball and stop the run.....Keep it close and we'll pull it out in the end.

He's old school and when it works, it WORKS.

Unfortunately, here in NC it meant 3 winning seasons out of 9.

Amen. I'm not exactly sure why Fox had a problem with Tebow when he got the Denver job since Tebow's style epitomizes Fox's ultra-conservative philosophy of the game.

Without violating board policies, isn't this what Tebow wants?

I don't think Tebow is intentionally provocative. He isn't being a pot-stirrer. He seems to be practicing his faith.

No, but I have had people who I was friends with suddenly dump me when they found out I was gay. They liked everything else about me, we liked the same books, movies, had similar senses of humor-but as soon as that aspect of my life was revealed-friendship over.

Man, that is awful. Without turning this thread into a confessional let me just say that as a straight conservative male I find it sad and regretful that those friends dumped you.


Tebowmania. I love it! I never paid the guy much attention before aside from pulling against him because I disliked the college he played for. I find it fascinating that people see so many different things in him. It's a great reflection on society, and crazy interesting story. I hope he keeps winning and keeps talking about whatever is on his mind when somebody sticks a microphone in his face. I love observing some folks swoon at his every word, and other folks fly off into anti-Christian rants.

Someone mentioned upthread the hope that Tebow could change his mechanics and become a more complete QB. Sadly, I don't see that ever happening. How many thousands upon thousands of throws has he made with his peculiar form already? I would think the muscle memory is too strong to ever allow his to change and have a more fluid passing motion.

 

[Goofyluver]

I don't think Tebow is intentionally provocative. He isn't being a pot-stirrer. He seems to be practicing his faith.

No, Zip. Geez. I was talkin' about spreading the gospel.

In all seriousness, isn't that a prominant pillar (especially) of evangelical followers?

Again, I'm just posing this as an opinion of Tebow and his "motives"...not to debate religion.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

No, Zip. Geez. I was talkin' about spreading the gospel.

In all seriousness, isn't that a prominant pillar (especially) of evangelical followers?

Again, I'm just posing this as an opinion of Tebow and his "motives"...not to debate religion.

Gotcha. As I was reading three pages of responses stuff started running together.

Sure, "spreading the gospel" is a pillar of Christianity. Some Christ-followers might discard that phrase in favor of something more expansive. Guess I better stop there lest I run smack into the TermsOfService wall.

 

[Princess Dolly]

Amen. I'm not exactly sure why Fox had a problem with Tebow when he got the Denver job since Tebow's style epitomizes Fox's ultra-conservative philosophy of the game.



I don't think Tebow is intentionally provocative. He isn't being a pot-stirrer. He seems to be practicing his faith.


Man, that is awful. Without turning this thread into a confessional let me just say that as a straight conservative male I find it sad and regretful that those friends dumped you.


Tebowmania. I love it! I never paid the guy much attention before aside from pulling against him because I disliked the college he played for. I find it fascinating that people see so many different things in him. It's a great reflection on society, and crazy interesting story. I hope he keeps winning and keeps talking about whatever is on his mind when somebody sticks a microphone in his face. I love observing some folks swoon at his every word, and other folks fly off into anti-Christian rants.

Someone mentioned upthread the hope that Tebow could change his mechanics and become a more complete QB. Sadly, I don't see that ever happening. How many thousands upon thousands of throws has he made with his peculiar form already? I would think the muscle memory is too strong to ever allow his to change and have a more fluid passing motion.

Pfffffft.

 

[lillygator]

Tue Dec 06 05:20pm EST

NBC and CBS are in a Tim Tebow tug-of-war
By MJD
The Week 15 Sunday night NBC game is currently scheduled to be the Baltimore Ravens against the San Diego Chargers. NBC, despite the fact that the Chargers were so dazzlingly brilliant on Monday night, would like to exercise its flex scheduling option and show something else.

In this case, that something else is the New England Patriots vs. the Denver Broncos, or, as it will be hyped endlessly by NBC in the event that it get its paws on it, Tom Brady(notes) vs. Tim Tebow(notes). The Golden Boy vs. The Chosen One is currently slated to air on CBS at 4:15 p.m. ET. NBC wants to yank it out of there. Mike Klis of the Denver Post reports that there's some conflict there.

NBC's contract with the NFL gives the partners a "flex" schedule to switch to a more compelling game than the one originally scheduled for prime time.

CBS, which has the game in its afternoon slot, has been fighting the move, as has Patriots owner Robert Kraft.

I'm not sure what they're fighting about -- there are clear-cut rules for how this works. NBC can indeed swap its game for another game, but only after Fox and CBS have both chosen to "protect" one of their games, which essentially says to NBC, "Hey, hands

 

[metalis4ever]

Tue Dec 06 05:20pm EST

NBC and CBS are in a Tim Tebow tug-of-war
By MJD
The Week 15 Sunday night NBC game is currently scheduled to be the Baltimore Ravens against the San Diego Chargers. NBC, despite the fact that the Chargers were so dazzlingly brilliant on Monday night, would like to exercise its flex scheduling option and show something else.

In this case, that something else is the New England Patriots vs. the Denver Broncos, or, as it will be hyped endlessly by NBC in the event that it get its paws on it, Tom Brady(notes) vs. Tim Tebow(notes). The Golden Boy vs. The Chosen One is currently slated to air on CBS at 4:15 p.m. ET. NBC wants to yank it out of there. Mike Klis of the Denver Post reports that there's some conflict there.

NBC's contract with the NFL gives the partners a "flex" schedule to switch to a more compelling game than the one originally scheduled for prime time.

CBS, which has the game in its afternoon slot, has been fighting the move, as has Patriots owner Robert Kraft.

I'm not sure what they're fighting about -- there are clear-cut rules for how this works. NBC can indeed swap its game for another game, but only after Fox and CBS have both chosen to "protect" one of their games, which essentially says to NBC, "Hey, hands

NFL blocked it, game will remain at 4:15...I knew that it wasn't going to happen once it was reported that Robert Kraft was against it.

 

[ChrisFL]

The Golden Boy vs. The Chosen One

...it just sounds funny!