Tiered Ticket Pricing ... what would Walt think?

[TheMaxRebo]

With Disney just announcing a price increase, which includes tiering on 1-day tickets and and expiration on unused tickets and there is definitely a lot of outrage on this - with the biggest complaints I have seen being that
a) this is unfair to people that are limited in the time of year they can go (teachers, people with kids in school, etc.) - so people are not equal
b) It's just getting too expensive for many families to go on vacation there

Now, I feel like there isn't the same outrage when sport teams raise their prices or movie tickets or Broadway shows, etc. So what in unique about Walt Disney World/Disneyland?

I think it is because of the vision Walt had and this idea (ideal) that he wanted everyone to be able to go to Disneyland/World (he does say "Disneyland is your land" in the opening speech) and a family trip to Walt Disney World has been so ingrained in our minds as something everyone has to do at least once - or almost that they are entitled to it

So what do you think Walt would think if he was alive (and not literally alive since he would be over 100, I think you know what I mean)? And given that the number one complaint I see is crowd levels what would he do to fix this? I know the easy answer is build more parks to spread the parks out but a) that would take a long time to complete and b) would that really help? WDW has more parks than Disneyland but crowds are worse in Florida than California - wouldn't more parks just bring more crowds and you have the same issue?

 

[rteetz]

Well Walt tried to capability on the parks with ticket books. If he were alive he could very well agree with what they are doing.

 

[rteetz]

Also building more parks isn't necessarily the answer either. Building a 5th gate in WDW will hurt attendance at the three other parks that aren't MK. When AK opened attendance dropped at Epcot and DHS. Americans are also not getting any richer nor are they getting any more vacation time. Adding a 5th gate is just going to take time away from the other four parks. Disney needs to just continuing investing in the parks that aren't the MK.

 

[Tom P.]

If Walt came back to life today, what would he say?

a. "This ticket pricing makes good business sense and will help with capacity issues."

b. "These ticket prices are getting too high for the average family and need to be lowered."

c. "Aaaaaaah! I've been buried alive! Someone let me out of this casket!"

 

[HollywoodTowerHotel]

Are we going with the theory that Disney is raising prices to "price people out" and as a result, lower crowd levels? Are they really worried about decreasing crowd levels? During the highest of holiday seasons, they close "for capacity" because they have to for safety reasons, not because they are trying to lower the crowds for guests' enjoyment.

They raise prices because they can and people will still flock to the parks. Eventually, people will have to decide if they still want to pay the price.

Increase in prices for sports venues, Broadway shows, and movie theaters also affect making the decision to attend - I am giving up my Eagles season tickets after many years due to increased ticket prices, parking price increases, concessions price increases, etc. I go to the movies during "off" times for cheaper prices. All of these things, including Disney, fall under leisure and not necessities. People will have to decide whether they still spend their entertainment money at Disney or elsewhere.

Sports venues, Broadway shows, and movie theaters have a limited capacity and can "sell out." I don't see Disney ever going this route, because the more they can pack in, the more money they make. Walt would probably be okay with it. Walt's vision of everyone being able to go to Disney was really just good PR...just like yesterday's press release about the increase in ticket prices that promised of all the new things to come...but we're going to raise prices now before they get here...

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Also building more parks isn't necessarily the answer either. Building a 5th gate in WDW will hurt attendance at the three other parks that aren't MK. When AK opened attendance dropped at Epcot and DHS. Americans are also not getting any richer nor are they getting any more vacation time. Adding a 5th gate is just going to take time away from the other four parks. Disney needs to just continuing investing in the parks that aren't the MK.

My wife suggested they just built a 2nd Magic Kingdom, same as the first to split the crowds going there. Obviously not realistic but gets to your point that the key is to disperse crowds especially in peak times

Your post makes me think even more that something needs to be done with EPCOT. They do the Flower and Garden in the Spring and Food & Wine in the fall, but what really draws crowds there in the summer? This specific summer with have Froway and the new Soarin' and that will help for now, but there are still very few attractions compared to other parks (at least compared to what DHS will be after the expansions). Also, land-wise, it is a very large park and should be able to handle higher crowds better if there was more there for them to do. Plus, there aren't a lot of "crowd eater" rides (just Living with the Land, Mexican It's a Small World, and I assume Froway to some extent) - a few more next-gen dark rides would help

 

[rteetz]

My wife suggested they just built a 2nd Magic Kingdom, same as the first to split the crowds going there. Obviously not realistic but gets to your point that the key is to disperse crowds especially in peak times

Your post makes me think even more that something needs to be done with EPCOT. They do the Flower and Garden in the Spring and Food & Wine in the fall, but what really draws crowds there in the summer? This specific summer with have Froway and the new Soarin' and that will help for now, but there are still very few attractions compared to other parks (at least compared to what DHS will be after the expansions). Also, land-wise, it is a very large park and should be able to handle higher crowds better if there was more there for them to do. Plus, there aren't a lot of "crowd eater" rides (just Living with the Land, Mexican It's a Small World, and I assume Froway to some extent) - a few more next-gen dark rides would help

If SSE wasn't FP it would be a nice crowd eater. Also Frozen won't be much of a crowd eater it doesn't have a huge capacity and if they go FP only for the ride it's not going to help crowds much.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Are we going with the theory that Disney is raising prices to "price people out" and as a result, lower crowd levels? Are they really worried about decreasing crowd levels? During the highest of holiday seasons, they close "for capacity" because they have to for safety reasons, not because they are trying to lower the crowds for guests' enjoyment.

They raise prices because they can and people will still flock to the parks. Eventually, people will have to decide if they still want to pay the price.

Increase in prices for sports venues, Broadway shows, and movie theaters also affect making the decision to attend - I am giving up my Eagles season tickets after many years due to increased ticket prices, parking price increases, concessions price increases, etc. I go to the movies during "off" times for cheaper prices. All of these things, including Disney, fall under leisure and not necessities. People will have to decide whether they still spend their entertainment money at Disney or elsewhere.

Sports venues, Broadway shows, and movie theaters have a limited capacity and can "sell out." I don't see Disney ever going this route, because the more they can pack in, the more money they make. Walt would probably be okay with it. Walt's vision of everyone being able to go to Disney was really just good PR...just like yesterday's press release about the increase in ticket prices that promised of all the new things to come...but we're going to raise prices now before they get here...

I agree they raise prices because then can and want to maximize profits from the parks .... but I do think they are reacting to significant customer complaints that crowds are too high and they can't get on the attractions they want (FP+ and MagicBands were partly a response to this ... also partly a response to track spending habits and patterns).

They want people heading home and telling their friends that are considering a trip that they definitely should go, not that it was super crowded and stressful and don't go

 

[TheMaxRebo]

If SSE wasn't FP it would be a nice crowd eater. Also Frozen won't be much of a crowd eater it doesn't have a huge capacity and if they go FP only for the ride it's not going to help crowds much.

I forgot about SSE, you are right. And having more attractions would allow them to remove SSE from the SP system (though, that doesn't mean they would, since they still have Pirates as a FP despite tons of rides at MK, and Pirates is much less efficient from a queue standpoint with having FP vs without)

 

[HollywoodTowerHotel]

They want people heading home and telling their friends that are considering a trip that they definitely should go, not that it was super crowded and stressful and don't go

Maybe if they did, it would lower the crowds.

Okay, I'm kidding.

With the constant advertising I see for Disney, they seem to be trying to get people to change when they travel. The new price increase confirms that. As you stated though, some people may be locked in with their dates and cannot go during off-times. I am one of them. As a teacher, I go in July. I go in knowing that it will be hot, crowded, and will cost more. I still choose to go, so that's on me. I can deal with hot and crowded because I have control over how I tour. If it gets too expensive, then I'll have to make a decision.

So, what would Walt do? I still go with nothing. People are still coming to his park. What should be done? I, like you, would like to see more attractions that spread people out more, especially without closing ones before they open new ones. I guess you can't always make new ones without closing others (I'm thinking HS here), but they started closing things WAY before construction started. Personally, I'm a little tired of always having construction happening when I visit because it seems like there's always construction! It's been different construction (new Fantasyland, Avatar, ROL, etc.) but it just makes it seem like it takes forever for things to get done.

What was my point? Oh yeah, more attractions. Get them done faster. Offer more alternatives while new ones are being built. Stop taking always entertainment and characters. Do something with Future World.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

So, what would Walt do? I still go with nothing. People are still coming to his park.

I actually pretty much agree with this and the start to this thread was a bit tongue in cheek. I just see so many people basically offended that the prices have gone and now are going up more for the only times of the years they can go. But I think while Walt wanted to provide great entertainment he wasn't running a charity with the parks.

I definitely think he would have a much bigger issue with lack of maintenance at WDW than the prices

 

[EricInPA]

Now, I feel like there isn't the same outrage when sport teams raise their prices or movie tickets or Broadway shows, etc. So what in unique about Walt Disney World/Disneyland?

There is an outrage when sports teams raise their ticket prices... but only by the fans of those teams (just like here). Just a few years ago you could get tickets at field level at a Pirates game for $15. Those tickets today are over $50 because the team is much better. The same sort of complaints popped up: you're pricing out a family trip to the ballpark, food costs more, etc etc. Could make similar comparisons for hockey and football. Team is better (and more popular), tickets go (way) up.

Disney simply has a wider reaching and more diverse fan base than your typical sports team (regionally, culturally, and economically). Also you can watch the games on TV etc, so going to a game doesn't prevent you from experiencing it. There's no way to really experience riding Space Mountain without going there. Maybe cable price increases could be another comparison?

I think it is because of the vision Walt had and this idea (ideal) that he wanted everyone to be able to go to Disneyland/World (he does say "Disneyland is your land" in the opening speech).

The number one complaint I see is crowd levels what would he do to fix this?

(Forgive my snipped quoting)
These are the opposing problems that Disney is trying to deal with. Disneyland had a pay as you go system. This undoubtedly made it accessible to the widest range of incomes. However that doesn't help crowd levels.

Disney could cap capacity at a lower level and "sell out" the park, similar to a resort hotel or a MK "hard ticket" event. Downside there is obvious: secondary market would come into play with astronomically priced ticket reselling.

Right now it seems like the plan is to invest in the current parks and make them capable of handling increased attendance:

2014
WDW: MyMagic+/FP+
MK: New Fantasy Land refurb/expansion

2015:
MK - Hub Expansion

2016:
DHS - Increase capacity at Midway Mania
AK - Add night time attractions/entertainment to extend park hours
Epcot - Increased capacity at Soarin'
Epcot - Remodel Norway to include Frozen

2017
AK - Expand to include Pandora/Avatar

2018-19(?)
DHS - Toy Story Land/Star Wars Land

For frequent guests, I totally get that half of these are not all new and exciting attractions. But I can see the reasoning as almost every move so far has been "make what we have now... bigger". All of these are overlapping by about a year and a half, so by 2018-19 you're looking at the expansion of 3 theme parks, and I think by then you will see some concrete plans regarding Epcot/Future World.

On the other side, someone could easily line up a list of things that have been cut back and reduced recently, including cast hours. That isn't great. Cutting characters and parades isn't a good look with increased prices and crowds. Hopefully if things are replaced, people will come here and report that as well.

 

[rteetz]

There is an outrage when sports teams raise their ticket prices... but only by the fans of those teams (just like here). Just a few years ago you could get tickets at field level at a Pirates game for $15. Those tickets today are over $50 because the team is much better. The same sort of complaints popped up: you're pricing out a family trip to the ballpark, food costs more, etc etc. Could make similar comparisons for hockey and football. Team is better (and more popular), tickets go (way) up.

Disney simply has a wider reaching and more diverse fan base than your typical sports team (regionally, culturally, and economically). Also you can watch the games on TV etc, so going to a game doesn't prevent you from experiencing it. There's no way to really experience riding Space Mountain without going there. Maybe cable price increases could be another comparison?


(Forgive my snipped quoting)
These are the opposing problems that Disney is trying to deal with. Disneyland had a pay as you go system. This undoubtedly made it accessible to the widest range of incomes. However that doesn't help crowd levels.

Disney could cap capacity at a lower level and "sell out" the park, similar to a resort hotel or a MK "hard ticket" event. Downside there is obvious: secondary market would come into play with astronomically priced ticket reselling.

Right now it seems like the plan is to invest in the current parks and make them capable of handling increased attendance:

2014
WDW: MyMagic+/FP+
MK: New Fantasy Land refurb/expansion

2015:
MK - Hub Expansion

2016:
DHS - Increase capacity at Midway Mania
AK - Add night time attractions/entertainment to extend park hours
Epcot - Double capacity at Soarin'
Epcot - Remodel Norway to include Frozen

2017
AK - Expand to include Pandora/Avatar

2018-19(?)
DHS - Toy Story Land/Star Wars Land

For frequent guests, I totally get that half of these are not all new and exciting attractions. But I can see the reasoning as almost every move so far has been "make what we have now... bigger". All of these are overlapping by about a year and a half, so by 2018-19 you're looking at the expansion of 3 theme parks, and I think by then you will see some concrete plans regarding Epcot/Future World.

On the other side, someone could easily line up a list of things that have been cut back and reduced recently, including cast hours. That isn't great. Cutting characters and parades isn't a good look with increased prices and crowds. Hopefully if things are replaced, people will come here and report that as well.

They aren't doubling soarin capacity. It's only a third theater, so it will have the same increase in capacity TSMM will have.

 

[EricInPA]

They aren't doubling soarin capacity. It's only a third theater, so it will have the same increase in capacity TSMM will have.

You're right, forgot there were two theaters already, edited.

 

[Princess Jes]

I admit, I haven't read every post just yet (running late to get ready for work) but, about things being equal, I have to say, what people do for work is mostly their choice. Having children is a choice.
In Australia, teachers get almost 3 months off a year, fully paid.
Yes they work late nights at times and on weekends at times, but so do a lot of professions.
I'm so sick of hearing teachers complain about having to travel on school holidays and it being expensive. You've made that choice however many years ago to be a teacher, you had to know that you'd only be able to travel during a peak time of year.
I can't travel for more than 3 weeks at a time (in Australia, we get 4 weeks paid holidays per year, which I know is different to the US, trust me, I'm not complaining, I know that's a great thing we get) but I'm an accountant and end of month (and year) are busy and it's pretty much all hands on deck.
This is a choice I made.
I also can't take my holidays during March-may because its budget time on top of everything else. It's just the way it is.

Also, having children? Choice. Things are expensive when you have children (one reason I've chosen not to have any at this point) and they go to school too, so unless you're happy to take them out, you'll have to travel at peak times.
I'm not sure Walt would be saying "don't increase prices, it's hard for parents having to pay more during school holidays."
He'd be seeing his bottom line.

I think we idealize Walt, but at the end of the day, he was a smart business man.

Sorry for the Pete-esque rant. I know it seems insensitive, and I certainly don't mean to be, it's just that logic slips in and I think that sometimes, life is just plain old not fair, and other times, it's our choices that get us to where we are.

 

[OKW Lover]

What would Walt think? He'd think he was too old to worry about it as he'd be 115 years old.

But didn't Walt pioneer the A-E ticket book pack? That was actually a way of balancing out the load among attractions in the parks. Hmm, come to think of it maybe something like that should be considered today. I wonder what Roy would think.

 

[rteetz]

I admit, I haven't read every post just yet (running late to get ready for work) but, about things being equal, I have to say, what people do for work is mostly their choice. Having children is a choice.
In Australia, teachers get almost 3 months off a year, fully paid.
Yes they work late nights at times and on weekends at times, but so do a lot of professions.
I'm so sick of hearing teachers complain about having to travel on school holidays and it being expensive. You've made that choice however many years ago to be a teacher, you had to know that you'd only be able to travel during a peak time of year.
I can't travel for more than 3 weeks at a time (in Australia, we get 4 weeks paid holidays per year, which I know is different to the US, trust me, I'm not complaining, I know that's a great thing we get) but I'm an accountant and end of month (and year) are busy and it's pretty much all hands on deck.
This is a choice I made.
I also can't take my holidays during March-may because its budget time on top of everything else. It's just the way it is.

Also, having children? Choice. Things are expensive when you have children (one reason I've chosen not to have any at this point) and they go to school too, so unless you're happy to take them out, you'll have to travel at peak times.
I'm not sure Walt would be saying "don't increase prices, it's hard for parents having to pay more during school holidays."
He'd be seeing his bottom line.

I think we idealize Walt, but at the end of the day, he was a smart business man.

Sorry for the Pete-esque rant. I know it seems insensitive, and I certainly don't mean to be, it's just that logic slips in and I think that sometimes, life is just plain old not fair, and other times, it's our choices that get us to where we are.

I understand both sides of this argument and I live in a family of teachers. I think it really depends. I know here in Wisconsin most teachers don't get paid for the summer vacation. Also many teachers are not making very good money unless you are nearing retirement. I really think that's why the argument exists. Teachers in my opinion don't get paid enough for what they do here in the US. They as you said have to travel during peak times which costs more than say traveling in January or September. Here in the US I think that will start to price some teachers out where they just can't go anymore.

 

[Princess Jes]

I understand both sides of this argument and I live in a family of teachers. I think it really depends. I know here in Wisconsin most teachers don't get paid for the summer vacation. Also many teachers are not making very good money unless you are nearing retirement. I really think that's why the argument exists. Teachers in my opinion don't get paid enough for what they do here in the US. They as you said have to travel during peak times which costs more than say traveling in January or September. Here in the US I think that will start to price some teachers out where they just can't go anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I know that there's the argument about how much teachers get paid, but that would affect a Disney trip regardless of what time of year they could go.
They're already paying a premium for their resort, so they're used to that, I'm just not sure the increase in tickets is that prohibitive on top of the resort cost? But hey, I could be wrong.
Also, I feel like I read somewhere that there are ways for teachers to get a discount on tickets?
I guess the same argument then exists in reverse: why do teachers get a cost break if others don't?

 

[rteetz]

Don't get me wrong, I know that there's the argument about how much teachers get paid, but that would affect a Disney trip regardless of what time of year they could go.
They're already paying a premium for their resort, so they're used to that, I'm just not sure the increase in tickets is that prohibitive on top of the resort cost? But hey, I could be wrong.
Also, I feel like I read somewhere that there are ways for teachers to get a discount on tickets?
I guess the same argument then exists in reverse: why do teachers get a cost break if others don't?

I've never seen anything about a discount on tickets for teachers. The only thing Disney does discount tickets for is the military. On site resorts are a premium during peak times but those prices do fluctuate and the resorts are cheaper during slower times. The only teacher discount I know of is the swan and dolphin but those aren't Disney owned so that's not something Disney does for teachers.

 

[Princess Jes]

I've never seen anything about a discount on tickets for teachers. The only thing Disney does discount tickets for is the military. On site resorts are a premium during peak times but those prices do fluctuate and the resorts are cheaper during slower times. The only teacher discount I know of is the swan and dolphin but those aren't Disney owned so that's not something Disney does for teachers.

As I'm not a us resident, or a teacher, please forgive the lack of concrete info, but I've read here before that some association or teachers union (or something?) offers a discount of some sort.
Like I said, I'm sorry for the crappy and sketchy info, but I know ive read it here before.